The President of Mexico demands Spain and the Vatican to apologise for their treatment of indigenous peoples during the Conquest

[Operations]

Eh, you can call out bullshit even if you are not the most affected. He is the president over all the indigenous Mexicans and he had repeatedly mentioned they're one of his main focus.

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I understand the argument but it just doesn't make sense in my head after some thinking. Current day Mexico is, what? 50/50 indigenous/European ascent? 60/40? Does it matter? If it doesn't, who is deserving of the apology? Is it merely symbolism? Same thing goes for The King of Spain, who isn't technically the King of Castile responsible for the Conquest.

I guess if the apology came without request it would carry a lot more weight in a symbolic kind of way.

 

[Deleted member 197]

For the topic, i think some people are posting this as "Spain should apologize to Mexico", when it isn't, Spain should apologize the indigenous tribes, and Mexico should too, even AMLO says that he will apologize to the groups that suffered under the mexican government (including the chinese), while this is good i don't really like this idea of looking at the 300 years of New Spain and think "this wasn't us" because i mean, it literally was us, but oh, whatever.

Yes I'm Mexican and no I didnt?

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So i really wanna know since when that civil war was about outsting the church from powerful positions from the government?Is such a weird read, is not like everybody agree that Mexico should be a liberal, federal, capitalit democracy that the 1857 constitution was trying to build.

 

[Deleted member 10629]

For the topic, i think some people are posting this as "Spain should apologize to Mexico", when it isn't, Spain should apologize the indigenous tribes, and Mexico should too, even AMLO says that he will apologize to the groups that suffered under the mexican government (including the chinese), while this is good i don't really like this idea of looking at the 300 years of New Spain and think "this wasn't us" because i mean, it literally was us, but oh, whatever.



So i really wanna know since when that civil war was about outsting the church from powerful positions from the government?Is such a weird read, is not like everybody agree that Mexico should be a liberal, federal, capitalit democracy that the 1857 constitution was trying to build.

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Benito Juarez wanted to strip or tone down the Church influence in the country, it was one of his objectives (and did it).

 

[Regulus Tera]

The president of Vox, Spain's far right party, is already using AMLO's request to denounce indigenous socialism in his twitter account, whatever that means.

 

[Brazil]

The president of Vox, Spain's far right party, is already using AMLO's request to denounce indigenous socialism in his twitter account, whatever that means.

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Indigenous socialism sounds pretty cool.

 

[Untzillatx]

And I believe Spain at least should. Immediately followed by the Mexican government themselves, who as every other criollo/mestizo government in Latin America, continued the mistreatment and discrimination of their indigenous peoples for long after the Spanish were gone.

 

[Akira86]

vatican and spain need to apologize, but lets not stop there.

 

[Deleted member 8583]

Every colonial power, as every country in America should apologize. One of the many things we should do to start changing the way we treat indigenous groups in our continent.

 

[Atreides]

I think Spain should apologize to indigenous people. But Mexico being the ones asking for that apology is hypocritical. Think of this example: if the Confederate States had actually managed to secede, it would be like them now asking USA to apologize for the treatement of indigenous people.

One more thing: I'm going to make an exception with Aztecs. I don't feel that destroying their culture is something bad (though of course the treatement of their descendants is somethig we should apologize for).

 

[eonden]

I would have no problem saying sorry and think we should. The whole thing though seems so badly expressed:
-Demanding it to improve relationships... when Spain and Mexico have had good relationships for a long time (heck, Spain and Bolivia are quite nice to each other and that is a near majority native american counrry).
-Sending this to the king... who has no power at all
-Sending the letter in the middle of Spains election time... when right wing nationalism would use it to tout it.

Amlo says he talked about it with Sanchez during the previous visit but chose the worst way to express it and the worst time to send it.

Edir: spanish here

 

[Kodama4]

Is Mexico on the list of countries The British Empire didn't invade?

 

[Deleted member 8583]

Is Mexico on the list of countries The British Empire didn't invade?

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Nope. We lost a fast war against the British, French and Spanish Empire about reparations and debt.

http://www.explorandomexico.com/about-mexico/4/184

 

[Kodama4]

Nope. We lost a fast war against the British, French and Spanish Empire about reparations and debt.

http://www.explorandomexico.com/about-mexico/4/184

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Of course....

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Nope. We lost a fast war against the British, French and Spanish Empire about reparations and debt.

http://www.explorandomexico.com/about-mexico/4/184

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To be fair though that does seem like that went down because Mexico said fuck it to debt repayments to those countries (as you mentioned), as opposed to those countries wanting to colonise.

It's the equivilant of telling a loan shark to GTFO, only this one has a standing army.

 

[Deleted member 8583]

To be fair though that does seem like that went down because Mexico said fuck it to debt repayments to those countries (as you mentioned), as opposed to those countries wanting to colonise.

It's the equivilant of telling a loan shark to GTFO, only this one has a standing army.

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It was more like a "we just came from a really hard internal war and need some time to rearrange our finances so give us a year." And then France went like fuck it, we are going to invade Mexico and we got the Second Mexican Empire.

Edit: Ha, just saw you username, kinda fitting for this topic q:

 

[nelsonroyale]

Apologies need to be backed by some form of material restitution...Otherwise it is virtual lip service. It is a massive can of worms, but is one of the factors related to historical inequalities. In Spain and Mexico's case, it could be better international collaboration. I mean I know that is pretty vague, but geopolitics at the moment is incredibly immature.

 

[Lunar Wolf]

What an idiotic way to attack AMLO here.

I have a Spanish last name and I speak Spanish and I look Indio, as do many Mexicans.

We got this because of the Spaniards.

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I mean 99 % of Mexicans are descended from the Spanish even the ones that are Indian or look Indian.

All the indigenous people of Mexico are descended from the same guys that oppressed their tribes.

I think that's his point. They're as many times removed from Mexico's oppressors as Mexicans are removed from those same oppressors.

 

[RM8]

I mean, I don't think we need apologies but everyone should be aware that colonialism is one of the most horrible things humans have been capable of, and that people whose culture and identity has been thoroughly destroyed and replaced rarely raise to become stable first world countries. It's easy to pretend it's all in the past, but when you're actually from a country like Mexico, you can see firsthand the persistent scars of our history.

And yeah, screw the church.

 

[hans_castorp]

Playing the "Conquistadores" card now is puzzling. It's usually saved for when you are low on popularity and wanna mobilise your nationalist base (See Evo Morales).

I thought AMLO was enjoying one of the highest approval rate in Mexican history.

 

[Kyussons]

vatican and spain need to apologize, but lets not stop there.

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Yeah, romans, greeks... hell Genghis Kahn heirs should apologize too, meanwhile lets continue selling weapons and exploiting 3rd world countries...

Anyways, has Mexico apologized yet ?

AMLO opening a can of worms with an important ally these days is not an smart move. He must be regretting his words by now, trust me.

 

[Hollywood Duo]

Seems fair

 

[Gustaf]

its funny that outsiders are talking about this like a sensitive request, because we all know colonialism was terrible to the indigenous people to say the least.


but the usual suspects are here trying to shit on this just because was AMLO who demanded the apology.


you ain't slick, you are transparent as fuck.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Yeah, romans, greeks... hell Genghis Kahn heirs should apologize too, meanwhile lets continue selling weapons and exploiting 3rd world countries...

Anyways, has Mexico apologized yet ?

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AMLO said he is going to issue an apology to the yaqui, maya, and Chinese for the treatment they received in the past. He is at least congruent.

 

[Zhadgon]

I think is a ruse after the day before when he was in the opening of a new baseball stadium and a lot of people start booing him, he needed something to hide that situation or completely forget that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL_fyFxjgHg

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Edited: to add more context.

 

[PSqueak]

The idea of a country formally apologuising for misdeeds is not a bad one, so you can see the good intentions.

But the idea of demanding it like this kinda has some bad optics.

Like, if he goes through with his apology to the tribes and the chinese, that's a good look on him because he did it on his own.
Him demanding Spain to apologize does seem like a smoke screen on the other hand.

 

[modoversus]

I think is a ruse after the day before when he was in the opening of a new baseball stadium and a lot of people start booing him, he needed something to hide that situation or completely forget that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jL_fyFxjgHg

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Edited: to add more context.

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Why would that matter?

 

[Sokrates]

How can anyone be opposed to this move? A majority of the colonial settler-states such as the US, Australia, New Zealand, and most of Latin America need to reckon with their own histories of exterminating and oppressing indigenous peoples.

 

[Zhadgon]

Why would that matter?

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Because he is a populist and if the people dont accept him, his words will lose relevance and power, he cannot show weakness or else his popularity will start going down really fast and thats something he will keep up at any cost to maintain power until the next elections so his party continue in power.

.n_n.

 

[jchap]

Sorry our ancestors were dicks to your ancestors

 

[Umbrella Carp]

Spain should compensate them for all the gold and cultural material they stole from Latin America as well.

 

[Harp]

Forgive my ignorance, but I'm still entirely unclear on what this accomplishes? I'm certainly not opposed to it, I just don't know why it's necessary? Spain and Mexico are both guilty of oppressing peoples CURRENTLY, and so each will apologize in a ritualistic, symbolic way, and then go right back to oppressing the people currently suffering under their governments, while patting themselves on the backs for recognizing that their predecessors oppressed people in their times too?

I mean, like, yay?

 

[Stinkles]

Spain should compensate them for all the gold and cultural material they stole from Latin America as well.

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To be fair, not as much gold as their expert very honest fantastic individual navigator gold evaluators suggested...

 

[modoversus]

Because he is a populist and if the people dont accept him, his words will lose relevance and power, he cannot show weakness or else his popularity will start going down really fast and thats something he will keep up at any cost to maintain power until the next elections so his party continue in power.

.n_n.

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So he would risk an international incident because a group of people at a local event screamed at him?

C'mon son.

 

[Zhadgon]

So he would risk an international incident because a group of people at a local event screamed at him?

C'mon son.

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Haha... then you don´t know Mexico, their presidents, its politics and politicians or what is to be a populist.

The closest example I can give is Donald Trump currently that he pisses off a lot of people for no apparent reason too.

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[Chojin]

While we're at it lets also get that apology for the Philippines and the other Spanish Colonies. Spain wasn't so nice.

 

[Atreides]

While we're at it lets also get that apology for the Philippines and the other Spanish Colonies. Spain wasn't so nice.

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While Spain should apologize to the natives of their former colonies, there is no reason why they should apologize to countries that formed from those colonies. It would be as bizarre as UK apologizing to the US for the treatment of the native americans by the inhabitants of the settlements the UK funded.

 

[modoversus]

Haha... then you don´t know Mexico, their presidents, its politics and politicians or what is to be a populist.

The closest example I can give is Donald Trump currently that he pisses off a lot of people for no apparent reason too.

.n_n.

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Nah.

Enjoy your conspiracy theories tough.

 

[Chojin]

While Spain should apologize to the natives of their former colonies, there is no reason why they should apologize to countries that formed from those colonies. It would be as bizarre as UK apologizing to the US for the treatment of the native americans by the inhabitants of the settlements the UK funded.

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Okay. Filipinos and other indiginous peoples of the colonies that they devastated. Glad we got that straightened out.

 

[Gustaf]

Haha... then you don´t know Mexico, their presidents, its politics and politicians or what is to be a populist.

The closest example I can give is Donald Trump currently that he pisses off a lot of people for no apparent reason too.

.n_n.

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deja de poner la pinche carita esa

 

[Zhadgon]

Nah.

Enjoy your conspiracy theories tough.

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Really? Ok thanks for having a discussion then.

deja de poner la pinche carita esa

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Any problem with that?

.n_n.