ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,046
ratchet_and_clank_banner_by_cpt_sledgehammer-d81va0a.jpg


Sometimes you don't realize how good you have it until something you treasure fades away. That's how I think many fans of 3D platformers probably feel when looking back on the PS2 era and comparing it to the generations that followed. In many ways the sixth generation of consoles (PS2, Xbox, and Gamecube) represented the apex of the 3D platforming genre. It was the last time when big developers and publishers (other than Nintendo) put their resources into AAA platformers, and the end-result was a healthy, competitive landscape that encouraged trying new things to spice up the formula.

Nowadays when people think of 3D platforming one of two things comes to mind: Mario and indies. That's it. During the sixth-generation of consoles we had a whole assortment of 3D platformers from a variety of developers, some of which genuinely challenged Mario's 3D platforming throne at the time depending on how you felt about Sunshine on the GameCube. It was a time when mega-talented devs like Naughty Dog and Insomniac were engaged in a friendly rivalry as two AAA second-party developers trying to one-up each other with their 3D platforming trilogies in the form of Jak & Daxter and Ratchet & Clank, respectively.

Both series attempted to add something new to the well-established 3D platforming model that had been started by Mario 64 years prior and then expanded upon by the successive works of Nintendo, Rare, and several others during the PS1/N64 era. The Jak series started as a technically stunning open-world collectathon that wore its Crash and Mario 64 inspirations on its sleeve and then moved into more polarizing and experimental territory in its sequels with the introduction of weapons and GTA-esque mission structures. The Ratchet & Clank games were more consistent in their approach from one entry to the next, and they differentiated themselves from others in the genre by giving the player access to an abundance of wildly inventive and fun firearms and gadgets.

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The big three on PS2 carried the 3D platforming torch for years.
Pictured Left-to-Right: Jak & Daxter: The Precursor Legacy, Ratchert & Clank, Sly Cooper

Then of course you had Sucker Punch throwing their hat into the ring with their stealth-focused Sly Cooper trilogy. The Sly games focused on level variety, endearing character writing, and an attractive cel-shaded art style to carve their own niche within the competitive genre space at the time. I'm just giving a few of the more obvious examples of great 3D platformers of the time, but of course there were plenty of others on Xbox and GameCube as well.

While I personally feel that Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 represent the genre at its absolute peak in terms of overall quality, they were released in a generation that otherwise gave us very few 3D platformers. Beyond that, moving into the current generation, the genre seems to have settled into a disappointing groove with only one great 3D Mario per generation and then a handful of well-meaning but unpolished indie efforts. While we were in the midst of the sixth generation I think we might have taken the abundance of 3D platforming goodness for granted since it seemed like a natural evolution of what came before, and we didn't realize how things would change in the future.

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Simply the best, but sadly mainline Mario games are the only real competition in town now.

I'm sure that none of this is all that enlightening to anyone who has been following gaming for the last few decades, but it felt good to rant a little bit. The indie 3D platformers of today have not been able to fill the void left behind after the end of the sixth gen, IMO, because many of them either lack the polish of their AAA predecessors or simply miss the point of what made those sprawling 3D worlds fun to explore and jump through.
 

Trode

Member
Mar 27, 2018
310
I agree. Ratchet and Clank, Sly, Jak and Daxter, even Ty. In terms of quality the genre hasn't been surpassed until recently.
 

Deleted member 5656

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
82
Yeah, I had higher hopes for the return of 3D platforming than what we've seen. Don't get me wrong, I think A Hat in Time is great, Mario Odyssey is an incredible game (though yeah, it's Mario), and Yooka-Laylee also exists. But when I think back to those side games that I barely played, the Ratchet and Clanks, the Jak & Daxter, and then I think of the ones I did play, there was a magic back then that had a little more to do with games in that era still kinda fleshing out what it meant to be a 3D platformer (but also being at a point where it was more polished). I'd love to see bigger devs dive in on the genre again, but there's a hesitance to do so. This is yet another reason why I hope we see a 3D DK game...but even that might not feel like "PS2 platformers" of course.
 

Undrey

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,675
Honestly this gen's platformers are underrated and people need to make games like them and not collectathons. We've had a lot of newer collectathon games, but nothing captures the PS2 trilogies' feeling.
 

Madao

Avalanche's One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,816
Panama
technically this gen has 2 3D Mario Platformers since the Wii U is still part of this gen with SM3DW.

3 if you also count handhelds and SM3DL
 

Cybersai

Banned
Jan 8, 2018
11,631
The Wii is part of the PS2/Gamecube/Xbox era? Since when?

The Wii is part of the PS3/360 era.
 

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,556
Mario will probably always be the peak, and Galaxy the peak of that peak.

But yeah, it'd be nice to have more. Sony should make some, hell, even Nintendo should have another besides Mario since they have a ton of 2D ones. I love the prospect of Retro's game being a 3D DK
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,411
Much better than the PS1/N64 days. Sure, none of them were as good as Mario 64, but I feel like on the whole they were far better.
 

BocoDragon

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,207
That's kind of an interesting point... there were just a lot of 3D platformers back then now that I think about it. Even all the also rans like Blinx, Sphinx, I-ninja.... I guess it was actually a pretty hot time for the genre.

Funny because I would have said that was the era of jRPGs and GTA clones, but maybe I was tuned out of the younger market at the time.
 

Segafreak

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,756
Came in expecting a comprehensive list/appreciation thread of 3D platformers of that era, hidden gems no one remembers anymore, like Vexx, Haven Call of the King etc, all I got is the Sony trio, disappointed OP. :/

Might make a thread of it myself soon.
 

Deleted member 873

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,463
Less collectathons please. That's not asking much, is it?

Nothing against the genre per se, but most of today's derivatives forget that 3d platformers are much more than collecting stuff.

I feel sad that my favorite genre seems to have 1 great game every 2 years
 

Deleted member 4247

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,896
The Ratchet games BARELY qualify as platformers. They're 3rd person gadget shooters with light platforming. And not very fun platforming IMO. Nothing like an actual platformer (Mario etc).
 

Dreamboum

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
23,031
That generation had Ape Escape 3, which is still the god tier of platformers. Unmatched to this day
 

NuclearCake

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,867
Everybody was trying to evolve this genre in some ways but i found the result pretty mixed. Not that i blame them for trying.

Ratchet and Clank was really fun but i started burning out as the series focused more on action, by Ratchet 3 it was 70% shooter and 30% platforming and the platforming lacked any none linearity and exploration.That's when you factor in that the platforming itself was never particularly deep in the series. It's like deep down nobody cared about good platforming mechanics and just wanted to make shooting the primary focus and because of that the series just kind of lost me after a while.

Jak and Daxter the first one was really good and the lack of loading screens was really impressive and it was a nice and challenging collecthathon platformer. They should have just fleshed it out with the sequels but then the series went to stupid places really fast with the next few installments. It's the definition of trying too hard as Jak 2 and Jak 3 were cringe as fuck with the "mature" angle. It gave 3D Sonic a run for it's money in that regard and the less said about the shitty 3D Sonic games the better. This is the generation that officially killed Sonic for me and it wasn't until Mania that i gave a shit about him.

Sly never appealed to me something about the design just seemed lame and at the time, it became really apparent that all Playstation platformers have really bad habit of trying just too hard to be "funny" but for me they fall completely flat most of the time.

Sunshine was unfortunately rushed but man did the controls and mechanics all fell tight and the sandbox worlds were neatly expanded in size and interactivity. FLUDD really added to the complexity of the game nicely. Even the Galaxy games paled in comparison to Sunshine and Mario 64 in this regard. Had Nintendo not cut a few of the worlds and also added a couple of camera options it would have been an incredible game.

Then you just had this weird focus on story which only the Ratchet games pulled off well everything else was painfully forced and seemed really out of place for this genre. Even Mario was really weird with Sunshine.

While the 6th generation is my favorite console generation, i really can't say the same for how it handled my favorite Genre. I'm perfectly happy that 3D Platformers are going back to what made them special in the first place, recently and i hope this trend continues.
 

TheDinoman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,159
There were a lot of good new IPs on Sony's front, but unfortunately a lot of the platforming greats from the 90s stumbled this gen.

Spyro and Crash were both seperated from their developers and were thus run into the ground by people who didn't know what to do with them. Donkey Kong had a similar fate, as Rare got bought out by Microsoft (and the only thing we got from them on Xbox was a remake of Bad Fur Day that most people found inferior to the original). Even Mario fell flat with the disappointment that was Sunshine.

And the less said about Sonic The Hedgehog, the better.
 

Akumatica

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,760
I started a list of 3D platformers from 1999-2010. What constitutes a 3D platformer maybe up for debate and I've bolded ones I was iffy on including. Let me know if I missed any and I'll add them.
Not included are 2.5D games like Klonoa 2, character action games like Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden or isometric games.

1999
40 Winks
Bugs Bunny: Lost in Time
Castlevania -N64
Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness
Croc 2
Donkey Kong 64
Gex 3: Deep Cover Gecko
Pac-Man World
Robbit Mon Dieu -Japan only
Rocket: Robot on Wheels
Sonic Adventure
Spyro: Ripto's Rage
Tomb Raider: The Last Revelation
Tonic Trouble

2000
Banjo-Tooie
Bomberman 64: The Second Attack
Bugs Bunny & Taz: Time Busters
Jet Set Radio
Napple Tale: Arsia in Daydream -Japan only
Spyro: Year of the Dragon
Tomb Raider Chronicles

2001
Bomberman 64 -Japan only
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Crash Bandicoot: The Wrath of Cortex
Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy
Kao the Kangaroo
Oddworld: Munch's Oddysee
Sonic Adventure 2
Stretch Panic

2002
Blinx: The Time Sweeper
Bomberman Generation
Dr. Muto
Jet Set Radio Future
Kingdom Hearts
Maximo: Ghosts to Glory
Metroid Prime

Pac-Man World 2
Ratchet and Clank
Rygar: The Legendary Adventure
Sly Cooper and the Thievius Raccoonus
Spyro: Enter the Dragonfly
Star Fox Adventures
Super Mario Sunshine
Ty the Tasmanian Tiger

2003
Ape Escape 2
Beyond Good and Evil
Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg
Castlevania: Lament of Innocence
I-Ninja
Jak 2
Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time
Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando
Rayman 3
Sonic Adventure DX
Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness
Vexx
Voodoo Vince
Wario World

2004
Blinx 2: Masters of Time and Space
Bomberman Jetters
Crash Twinsanity
Jak 3
Malice
Maximo vs. Army of Zin
Metroid Prime 2: Echoes

Prince of Persia: Warrior Within
Ratchet and Clank: Up Your Arsenal
Scaler
Sly 2: Band of Thieves
Sonic Heroes
Spyro: A Hero's Tail
Super Mario 64 DS
Ty the Tasmanian Tiger 2: Bush Rescue

2005
Ape Escape: On the Loose
Castlevania: Curse of Darkness
Kameo: Elements of Power
Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath
Pac-Man World 3
Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones
Shadow the Hedgehog
Sly 3: Honor Among Thieves
Tokobot
Ty the Tasmanian Tiger 3: Night of the Quinkan

2006
Ape Escape 3
Ape Escape: Million Monkeys -Japan only
Daxter
Kingdom Hearts 2
Okami

Psychonauts
Sonic the Hedgehog -2006
The Legend of Spyro: A New Beginning
Tokobot Plus
Tomb Raider: Legend

2007
Ape Escape: SaruSaru Big Mission -Japan only
Crash of the Titans
The Legend of Spyro: The Eternal Night
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
Ratchet and Clank: Size Matters
Ratchet and Clank Future: Tools of Destruction
Sonic and the Secret Rings
Super Mario Galaxy
Tomb Raider Anniversary

2008
Crash: Mind over Mutant
The Legend of Spyro: Dawn of the Dragon
Prince of Persia -2008
Ratchet and Clank Future: Quest for Booty
Secret Agent Clank
Sonic Unleashed -Wii
Sonic Unleashed -360 &PS3
Tomb Raider Underworld

2009
Jak and Daxter; The Lost Frontier
Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days
Ratchet and Clank Future: A Crack in Time
Sonic and the Black Knight

2010
Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep

Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands
Sonic Colors
Super Mario Galaxy 2
 
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Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,556
I started a list of 3D platformers from 1999-2010. What constitutes a 3D platformer maybe up for debate and I've bolded ones I was iffy on including. Let me know if I missed any and I'll add them.
Not included are 2.5D games like Klonoa 2, character action games like Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden or isometric games.

1999
40 Winks
Bugs Bunny: Lost in Time
Castlevania -N64
Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness
Croc 2
Donkey Kong 64
Gex 3: Deep Cover Gecko
Pac-Man World
Robbit Mon Dieu -Japan only
Rocket: Robot on Wheels
Sonic Adventure
Spyro: Ripto's Rage
Tomb Raider: The Last Revelation
Tonic Trouble

2000
Banjo-Tooie
Bomberman 64: The Second Attack
Bugs Bunny & Taz: Time Busters
Jet Set Radio
Spyro: Year of the Dragon
Tomb Raider Chronicles

2001
Bomberman 64 -Japan only
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Crash Bandicoot: The Wrath of Cortex
Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy
Kao the Kangaroo
Oddworld: Munch's Oddysee
Sonic Adventure 2
Stretch Panic

2002
Blinx: The Time Sweeper
Bomberman Generation
Dr. Muto
Jet Set Radio Future
Kingdom Hearts
Maximo: Ghosts to Glory
Metroid Prime

Pac-Man World 2
Ratchet and Clank
Rygar: The Legendary Adventure
Sly Cooper and the Thievius Raccoonus
Spyro: Enter the Dragonfly
Star Fox Adventures
Super Mario Sunshine
Ty the Tasmanian Tiger

2003
Ape Escape 2
Beyond Good and Evil
Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg
Castlevania: Lament of Innocence
I-Ninja
Jak 2
Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time
Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando
Rayman 3
Sonic Adventure DX
Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness
Vexx
Voodoo Vince
Wario World

2004
Blinx 2: Masters of Time and Space
Bomberman Jetters
Crash Twinsanity
Jak 3
Malice
Maximo vs. Army of Zin
Metroid Prime 2: Echoes

Prince of Persia: Warrior Within
Ratchet and Clank: Up Your Arsenal
Scaler
Sly 2: Band of Thieves
Sonic Heroes
Spyro: A Hero's Tail
Super Mario 64 DS
Ty the Tasmanian Tiger 2: Bush Rescue

2005
Ape Escape: On the Loose
Castlevania: Curse of Darkness
Kameo: Elements of Power
Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath
Pac-Man World 3
Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones
Shadow the Hedgehog
Sly 3: Honor Among Thieves
Tokobot
Ty the Tasmanian Tiger 3: Night of the Quinkan

2006
Ape Escape 3
Ape Escape: Million Monkeys -Japan only
Daxter
Kingdom Hearts 2
Okami

Psychonauts
Sonic the Hedgehog -2006
The Legend of Spyro: A New Beginning
Tokobot Plus
Tomb Raider: Legend

2007
Ape Escape: SaruSaru Big Mission -Japan only
Crash of the Titans
The Legend of Spyro: The Eternal Night
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
Ratchet and Clank: Size Matters
Ratchet and Clank Future: Tools of Destruction
Sonic and the Secret Rings
Super Mario Galaxy
Tomb Raider Anniversary

2008
Crash: Mind over Mutant
The Legend of Spyro: Dawn of the Dragon
Prince of Persia -2008
Ratchet and Clank Future: Quest for Booty
Secret Agent Clank
Sonic Unleashed -Wii
Sonic Unleashed -360 &PS3
Tomb Raider Underworld

2009
Jak and Daxter; The Lost Frontier
Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days
Ratchet and Clank Future: A Crack in Time
Sonic and the Black Knight

2010
Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep

Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands
Sonic Colors
Super Mario Galaxy 2
If I asked for a 3D platformer recommendation and someone pointed me towards Metroid Prime I'd be mindboggled...
 

ryseing

Bought courtside tickets just to read a book.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,546
For lovers
Sly never appealed to me something about the design just seemed lame and at the time, it became really apparent that all Playstation platformers have really bad habit of trying just too hard to be "funny" but for me they fall completely flat most of the time.

You missed out. Sly is the best series of the 3, though Jak 1 is the best individual game.

Sly 4 was awesome too. Great Vita game.
 

Akumatica

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,760
If I asked for a 3D platformer recommendation and someone pointed me towards Metroid Prime I'd be mindboggled...

That's why I bolded it. It's 3D, it's got platforming. To me it's like Jumping Flash and Mega Man and to me those are platformers. Many people want to strictly define games into genres when there is a lot of bleed over between platformers, action games, shooters and action rpg's.

My personal criteria for a 3D platformer is-
-3d areas with 3d graphics. So Sonic 3D Blast isn't one.
-A jump button. Why Okami is but not Zelda or Super Monkeyball.
-A focus on exploration and environment. Character action games focus on combat.
-Collectibles are not a requirement.
-A locked camera is okay.
 
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Fahzzy

Self-Requested Ban
Banned
Jan 21, 2018
1,079
The 6th Generation was just incredible on all fronts tbh.
 

Zoph

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,545
The indie renaissance kind of killed the 3D platformer, but also brought the 2D platformer to new heights. As Indies start making more full 3D games we might see them return, and I hope A Hat in Time is a prelude to something really great.
 

Yoshi

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,055
Germany
-A focus on exploration and environment. Character action games focus on combat.
So, Super Mario 3D World or Crash Bandicoot are not 3D platformers?

ScOULaris I think the leading examples you cite here are not very strong. Jak & Daxter 1 is certainly a nice platformer, but Jak 2 & 3 only had sprinkles of platforming, mixed into a garbage fire of unbalanced GTA-style action stuff. The buggy sections in Jak 3 I count among the worst stuff I have suffered through and the difficulty curve leaves the impression they have never playtested the games - not because the games are excessively difficult, they are not, but because the difficulty is all over the plave over the course of the game.

Then we have Ratchet & Clank, which has no good platforming in it and focusses, from the start, almost entirely on shooting, how is this a platformer?

Lastly, Sly Cooper is servicable, but not much more.

In fact, I feel that this was one of the weakest generations for 3D platformers, because Sony was basically working towards a redefinition of platformer to capture all kinds of games with comic visuals. Considering how awesome the generation before was for 3D platformers,and that the gen afterwards had the two best 3D platformers ever made (Galaxy, Galaxy 2), sixth gen does not stick out as particularly special to me. I need to give a big shoutout to Vexx, which is the best collectathon outside of Mario, Banjo and Yooka, as well as Crash Twinsanity, which, albeit rushed beyond repair, has some mighty fine level design (the highlights of Twinsanity are the best the Crash series has to offer. The weak spots are... well, very weak, though.
 

MatrixMan.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,523
I started a list of 3D platformers from 1999-2010. What constitutes a 3D platformer maybe up for debate and I've bolded ones I was iffy on including. Let me know if I missed any and I'll add them.
Not included are 2.5D games like Klonoa 2, character action games like Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden or isometric games.

1999
40 Winks
Bugs Bunny: Lost in Time
Castlevania -N64
Castlevania: Legacy of Darkness
Croc 2
Donkey Kong 64
Gex 3: Deep Cover Gecko
Pac-Man World
Robbit Mon Dieu -Japan only
Rocket: Robot on Wheels
Sonic Adventure
Spyro: Ripto's Rage
Tomb Raider: The Last Revelation
Tonic Trouble

2000
Banjo-Tooie
Bomberman 64: The Second Attack
Bugs Bunny & Taz: Time Busters
Jet Set Radio
Napple Tale: Arsia in Daydream -Japan only
Spyro: Year of the Dragon
Tomb Raider Chronicles

2001
Bomberman 64 -Japan only
Conker's Bad Fur Day
Crash Bandicoot: The Wrath of Cortex
Jak and Daxter: The Precursor Legacy
Kao the Kangaroo
Oddworld: Munch's Oddysee
Sonic Adventure 2
Stretch Panic

2002
Blinx: The Time Sweeper
Bomberman Generation
Dr. Muto
Jet Set Radio Future
Kingdom Hearts
Maximo: Ghosts to Glory
Metroid Prime

Pac-Man World 2
Ratchet and Clank
Rygar: The Legendary Adventure
Sly Cooper and the Thievius Raccoonus
Spyro: Enter the Dragonfly
Star Fox Adventures
Super Mario Sunshine
Ty the Tasmanian Tiger

2003
Ape Escape 2
Beyond Good and Evil
Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg
Castlevania: Lament of Innocence
I-Ninja
Jak 2
Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time
Ratchet and Clank: Going Commando
Rayman 3
Sonic Adventure DX
Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness
Vexx
Voodoo Vince
Wario World

2004
Blinx 2: Masters of Time and Space
Bomberman Jetters
Crash Twinsanity
Jak 3
Malice
Maximo vs. Army of Zin
Metroid Prime 2: Echoes

Prince of Persia: Warrior Within
Ratchet and Clank: Up Your Arsenal
Scaler
Sly 2: Band of Thieves
Sonic Heroes
Spyro: A Hero's Tail
Super Mario 64 DS
Ty the Tasmanian Tiger 2: Bush Rescue

2005
Ape Escape: On the Loose
Castlevania: Curse of Darkness
Kameo: Elements of Power
Oddworld: Stranger's Wrath
Pac-Man World 3
Prince of Persia: The Two Thrones
Shadow the Hedgehog
Sly 3: Honor Among Thieves
Tokobot
Ty the Tasmanian Tiger 3: Night of the Quinkan

2006
Ape Escape 3
Ape Escape: Million Monkeys -Japan only
Daxter
Kingdom Hearts 2
Okami

Psychonauts
Sonic the Hedgehog -2006
The Legend of Spyro: A New Beginning
Tokobot Plus
Tomb Raider: Legend

2007
Ape Escape: SaruSaru Big Mission -Japan only
Crash of the Titans
The Legend of Spyro: The Eternal Night
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption
Ratchet and Clank: Size Matters
Ratchet and Clank Future: Tools of Destruction
Sonic and the Secret Rings
Super Mario Galaxy
Tomb Raider Anniversary

2008
Crash: Mind over Mutant
The Legend of Spyro: Dawn of the Dragon
Prince of Persia -2008
Ratchet and Clank Future: Quest for Booty
Secret Agent Clank
Sonic Unleashed -Wii
Sonic Unleashed -360 &PS3
Tomb Raider Underworld

2009
Jak and Daxter; The Lost Frontier
Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days
Ratchet and Clank Future: A Crack in Time
Sonic and the Black Knight

2010
Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep

Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands
Sonic Colors
Super Mario Galaxy 2

Okami and Kingdom Hearts are not 3D Platformers. This isn't even up for debate.

Edit: Your personal definition of what a 3D Platformer is is incorrect. Tomb Raider is kind of a grey area, but the reboot games are definitely not platformers. Simply having a jump button, exploration and collectibles is some seriously woolly criteria.
 

Akumatica

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,760
People will a always use personal criteria to label things. Take pizza for an example-

Person A- "Pizza is only hand tossed crust, tomato sauce, sliced not shredded mozzarella, extra virgin olive oil and fresh basil. Baked in a wood-fire brick oven!"

Person B- "I want a pepperoni stuffed crust pan pizza with barbecue sauce and ranch dressing to dip it in."

I'd side with Person B. Pizza to me is everything from store bought, to Chicago deep dish, California style, White Clam, Corn and Mayonnaise etc. This is why I cast a very wide net in including the titles that I did.

On the other hand a calzone has many similarities to pizza but is not, in my mind, the same. This would be like Devil May Cry, Zelda and Mega Man Legends being excluded from the list.

But Person A must always be exclusionary, nitpick and try and shit on what other would embrace. That's to be expected especially online. I'll just say that there is dearth of new 3D platformers compared to generations past and after you've played most of the agreed upon genre touchstones a fan may branch out to find others game that can scratch that itch. After you've stretched and explored the boundaries fully sometimes you might be inclined to agree that calzone is a type of pizza or at least tasty.

Strictly labeling and sharply defining things is restrictive and tiresome to debate. You get into endless arguments like what constitutes an Rpg.
 

MrCunningham

Banned
Nov 15, 2017
1,372
I started a list of 3D platformers from 1999-2010. What constitutes a 3D platformer maybe up for debate and I've bolded ones I was iffy on including. Let me know if I missed any and I'll add them.
Not included are 2.5D games like Klonoa 2, character action games like Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden or isometric games.

1996 was the definitive birth of the 3D platformer, IMO even though there were a few 3D platformers that pre-dated that year.

1996 introduced:
Mario 64
Tomb Raider
Crash Bandicoot (this one is 2.5D, but it was a step into 3D platformers)
Quake (I know this is not a 3D platformer, but Quake did implement a proper polygon engine with first person platforming elements)
Bubsy 3D (OK, maybe not this one)
Pandemonium (This is another 2.5d platformer)
Jumping Flash 2 (first person platforming sequel to the 1995 Jumping Flash)
Bug Too! (This is a weird mix of 2D platforming on a 3D playing field, the first Bug! was released in 1995)
NiGHTS into Dreams had a few 3D platforming elements, but was primarily an on-rails flying game.. thing?)

Sega of America was also desperately trying to get a 3D Sonic game out into the wild too for 1996 with Sega Technical Institute. But couldn't get it off the ground. Sega of Japan really wanted to push NiGHTS instead as the Saturn's new mascot.

Mario 64 pretty much set the tone for 3D platformers in 1996. Mario 64 was a mini event in itself, as Sony and Sega were doing their best to compete with that game. Tomb Raider was also a big contributer that year as well, Tomb Raider being multi-platform, as well as one of the first really big PC 3D platformers of that time. I realize the game is generally compared to a 3D adventure these days (or a 3D cinematic platformer), but it was designed around a digital control scheme and still has all the gameplay hallmarks of a 3D platformer. It was generally looked at as the "alternative to Mario 64". 1996 was the year when 3D gaming in general became the norm and not the exception.
 

Akumatica

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,760
1996 was the definitive birth of the 3D platformer, IMO even though there were a few 3D platformers that pre-dated that year.

1996 introduced:
Mario 64
Tomb Raider
Crash Bandicoot (this one is 2.5D, but it was a step into 3D platformers)
Quake (I know this is not a 3D platformer, but Quake did implement a proper polygon engine with first person platforming elements)
Bubsy 3D (OK, maybe not this one)
Pandemonium (This is another 2.5d platformer)
Jumping Flash 2 (first person platforming sequel to the 1995 Jumping Flash)
Bug Too! (This is a weird mix of 2D platforming on a 3D playing field, the first Bug! was released in 1995)
NiGHTS into Dreams had a few 3D platforming elements, but was primarily an on-rails flying game.. thing?)

Sega of America was also desperately trying to get a 3D Sonic game out into the wild too for 1996 with Sega Technical Institute. But couldn't get it off the ground. Sega of Japan really wanted to push NiGHTS instead as the Saturn's new mascot.

Mario 64 pretty much set the tone for 3D platformers in 1996. Mario 64 was a mini event in itself, as Sony and Sega were doing their best to compete with that game. Tomb Raider was also a big contributer that year as well, Tomb Raider being multi-platform, as well as one of the first really big PC 3D platformers of that time. I realize the game is generally compared to a 3D adventure these days (or a 3D cinematic platformer), but it was designed around a digital control scheme and still has all the gameplay hallmarks of a 3D platformer. It was generally looked at as the "alternative to Mario 64". 1996 was the year when 3D gaming in general became the norm and not the exception.

Yeah my personal list includes these-
1995
Jumping Flash

1996
Bubsy 3D
Floating Runner
Jumping Flash 2
Super Mario 64
Tomb Raider

1997
Bomberman 64
Chameleon Twist
Croc: Legend of the Gobbos
Ninpen Manmaru -Japan only
Tomb Raider 2

1998
Banjo-Kazooie
Bomberman Hero
Gex: Enter the Gecko
Glover
Rascal
Spyro the Dragon
Tomb Raider 3
 

daninthemix

Member
Nov 2, 2017
5,044
Nah, Gen 5 was when 3D platformers were new and exciting. The Sony trilogy you listed aren't a patch on Mario 64 and Banjo Kazooie, for my money.
 

MrCunningham

Banned
Nov 15, 2017
1,372
Yeah my personal list includes these-
1995

Pretty good list. I'm trying to think of other 3D platformers that predate Mario 64. I know they exist.

I know some people like to cite Fade to Black from 1995 for DOS as a 3D platformer, but it really is a early 3RD person corridor shooter.

There are also early DOS games from 1990 like Continum/ Alpha Waves:



and Geograph Seal from 1994 for the Sharp x68000 PC in Japan:



It is the precursor to Jumping Flash.
 
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