Super

Studied the Buster Sword
Member
Jan 29, 2022
7,538
Well to be fair, the game isn't that great either. It didn't get good word of mouth. Just days after launch all discussions about the game went pretty negative.

Even then if they make an exception for Call of Duty does that mean that Elder Scrolls 6 doesn't go day 1 Game Pass too? They would be walking back what they promised. They are in a tough situation for sure. Signalling that games with killer sales potential can't be day 1 would not be a good movie IMO. Especially when studios are getting closed due to their games not being "high impact".
 

Shopolic

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
7,025
Game Pass is a fantastic deal for many gamers, specially if you're living in a country with shit economy (like me). But at the same time, it was obvious from the beginning that it's not a hugely profitable thing for Microsoft, as a service with lots of third party games and all first party games day one with low price.
GP was my main reason to buy XSX and played so many great games with it, but don't know about the future if price goes too high or they cut day one first party games.
 

bitcloudrzr

Member
May 31, 2018
14,555
From Enpleinjour at installbase, Starfield compared to other Bethesda titles shows the impact Game Pass had on sales of the game in the UK in the first year.

Skyrim - 1,138,000
Fallout 4 - 1,126,000
Starfield - 142,000

Post in thread 'UK 2023 Sales Data: Hardware, Software, and Accessories numbers'
https://www.installbaseforum.com/th...ware-and-accessories-numbers.2473/post-236373

When I saw that drop in sales I knew discussions would be had about COD on Game Pass, the drop is massive.
People are still pretending to be surprised though.
 

TheClaw7667

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,761
People shit on him but he was great for boosting PlayStation.
He doesn't get any more or less praise than any of these gaming CEO's get and they get shit in when they end up doing/saying something real dumb that brings attention to them or they layoff thousands of people and/or close down a studio. Which seems about the exact right time to shit on these people making the money that they do.
 

rainking187

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,162
Really they're considering if they want to give Ninja Theory enough time to port the game before they shut them down.
 

inkblot

Member
Mar 27, 2024
189
This is the slow disintegration of a console platform / manufacturer, and it really sucks to see…
 

Pop-O-Matic

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,041
This was probably true when he said it but the juice ran out quick. A lot of us called it back then.
I don't even believe it was true at the time. Phil was clearly just spouting whatever bullshit sounded good in order to make GamePass look like it was an unequivocal net positive to the gaming industry.
 

SuperBoss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,683
Lol are you fucking kidding me? The biggest draw of the acquisition was to get CoD on gamepass. The promise of gamepass was getting every first party game on Day 1.

This week man...
 

Lucifonz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,157
United Kingdom
This is interesting, but it feels like all we keep hearing is that they're "considering" this stuff. Surely some decisions need to be made if they're actually going to get this software ported and released?
The media cycle when it comes to MS is undeniably different. The number of wild "considering", "thinking about", "in discussions" etc articles is beyond any another provider. They generate clicks and buzz but in many cases only partially true or exaggerated. A lot of extreme discussions and suggestions will be internally discussed and considered everywhere, we just don't (and arguably shouldn't) hear about it because half of it won't ever happen.

I feel we are just inching towards Microsoft getting out of the hardware space.

This sentiment is thrown around a lot recently. But this is the same company that's on the 9th mainline Surface hardware product. and which generates billions of dollars through hardware alone, not considering the further revenue generated via said hardware. Their hardware offering may become less important but it's not going anywhere.
 

Ringten

Member
Nov 15, 2017
6,233
Pretty much everything has been said.

The whole appeal of GP is day 1 releases.It's a slap in the face when the big games won't be included. Especially when you consider xbox gamers expected the ball to start rolling with constant releases sometime this/next year.

Also shout out to PlayStation for saying Day 1 releases make no sense and getting shat on.
 

2Blackcats

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,214
I think we'll see Microsoft go fully multiplat with all software pretty soon. I think day 1 on game pass will look like a better value proposition when the same games are only available for 80 bucks day 1 on Playstation.
 

Pop-O-Matic

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,041
If there's a lesson everyone should take from the GamePass experiment, it's that if any deal seems "too good to be true," that's because it is.
 

Sayuz

Member
Apr 29, 2019
976
Real talk, I've held these beliefs for years now and even I didn't voice them that much because I knew I'd be dogpiled for insinuating that meany doo-doo head Jim Ryan or the TVTVSportsTVKinect guy were better at their jobs then our lord and savior Phillip "Mr. Video Games" Spencer was.

These last few days have really made me reevaluate my opinions on Mattrick. In a lot of ways, he was the right guy for the time when it came to the twilight years of the 360. The Kinect legitimately probably the most successful (in terms of sales and financially) peripheral released for a console, and there's no doubt that it significantly increased the 360's sales for those last 3 years.

His trouble was that he couldn't see how short lived the Kinect's success was. In some ways, that's simply an error of inertia. While the Xbox One was in development, the Kinect was selling amazingly well. From that perspective, it would have made a ton of sense to pack in a next-gen version with their next-gen system. But given how long consoles take to develop and release, by the time the Xbox One finally did come out, that Kinect audience was gone. Sony made a similar error with the PS Vita. It was a device that made a lot more sense in the time it was being developed, but not when it was released; a point in time when smartphones had eaten into their market.

Similarly, from Mattrick's point of view, it made a lot of sense for the Xbox One to be an "All in One" machine. He was the head of not only Xbox, but the Music and Video divisions of Microsoft, too. To be able to integrate those into a single device - a process that had already begun on the Xbox 360 via updates to the system - seemingly made a lot of sense. At the time the Xbox One would have been in development, the PS3 was pitching itself similarly, with its famous "It Only Does Everything" tagline.

Yet, as much as it makes sense to integrate video and music into a console, the Xbox One was still stuck in the past, similarly to how it was with Kinect. There was a big focus on being able to integrate your cable or satellite into it...during the heyday of Netflix, when everyone was cord cutting in order to watch everything on there (and to a lesser extent, Hulu). Again, maybe that would have made more sense back in 2010, but just barely. By 2013 that way of thinking was truly outdated.

And in the one area the Xbox One was forward thinking, with its online focused design, they completely flubbed with the Always Online™ check-ins and lack of ability to play used physical games (without at least, jumping through hoops or paying a fee). While some of this might begrudgingly fly (to an extent) in the current year in which physical sales are on the decline, and consoles are (more or less) required to have an internet connection in order to access many functions, it was a decade too early in 2013.

This is also to say nothing of the atrocious messaging at the time. "Fortunately we have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity, it's called Xbox 360," will probably live on in infamy forever.

Yet even despite how everything ended, you can at least tell there was some sort of vision behind the Xbox One for what Mattrick wanted it to be. He wanted a console that you could control via voice commands, could be integrated directly into your existing entertainment hub so that you'd never need to change the channel, and could do everything digitally. It was a bold vision, ambitious in many ways, and also extremely flawed and out of touch. But even so, that's a lot more than you can say for what the Xbox Series is supposed to be, especially currently in which it seems like there is no vision for what the brand is supposed to be.

Mattrick said a few years back that he wishes he had been able to stay and execute his vision for what he wished the Xbox One to be, and I can't help but be curious as to where Xbox would be now if he had been able to. Would it be better off? Maybe not, but the fact that the current outlook makes one question that says a lot about the state of things now.

That's not to say that Mattrick's final years prior to the Xbox One launch were all that great either. It's well known that focus shifted from titles like quirky titles like Ninety-Nine Nights or Too Human completely to Kinect titles and core games like Halo and Gears of War. Yet, even that looks rosy in comparison to now. The last Gears game came out 5 years ago at this point.

But even so, the first couple years of the Xbox One were pretty packed. There was Dead Rising 3, Ryse: Son of Rome, Killer Instinct, Zoo Tycoon, Fighter Within, and Forza Motorsport 5 for exclusives at launch. The quality of the games obviously was all over the place, but it was a decent variety of different types of games you couldn't find elsewhere. And games like Sunset Overdrive and D4: Dark Dreams Don't Die which both came out in 2014 had to have been greenlit under his watch. Even ReCore which released in 2016 would have been started during the end of his tenure. Plus, Scalebound also started under Mattrick, but he wasn't the one who killed it. Points for that, if nothing else.

tl;dr: Mattrick was a shitty head of Xbox, who nonetheless had an idea of where he wanted to take the brand and had a few major successes along the way. The fact that we're now able to look back at his tenure with even an ounce of nostalgia is both hilarious and depressing all the same.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,750
From Enpleinjour at installbase, Starfield compared to other Bethesda titles shows the impact Game Pass had on sales of the game in the UK in the first year.

Skyrim - 1,138,000
Fallout 4 - 1,126,000
Starfield - 142,000

Post in thread 'UK 2023 Sales Data: Hardware, Software, and Accessories numbers'
https://www.installbaseforum.com/th...ware-and-accessories-numbers.2473/post-236373

When I saw that drop in sales I knew discussions would be had about COD on Game Pass, the drop is massive.
Holy fucking shit. Game Pass is a great value currently for gamers obviously but as I've been saying seemingly forever at this point, the business model is smoke and mirrors and completely unsustainable.
 
So... Jim Ryan was... right all along...?
He was in gaming for literal decades & saw every fad known forwards & backwards, I would be Very concerned that someone in the game that long wouldn't know when something that sounds too good to be true usually means it's not. Which goes back to almighty question which is how all of the top brass at xbox are seemingly so Stupid? Like how have you been in this game for this long and still don't know how manage fuck all!? It's just mind blowing...
 

inkblot

Member
Mar 27, 2024
189
The media cycle when it comes to MS is undeniably different. The number of wild "considering", "thinking about", "in discussions" etc articles is beyond any another provider. They generate clicks and buzz but in many cases only partially true or exaggerated. A lot of extreme discussions and suggestions will be internally discussed and considered everywhere, we just don't (and arguably shouldn't) hear about it because half of it won't ever happen.



This sentiment is thrown around a lot recently. But this is the same company that's on the 9th mainline Surface hardware product. and which generates billions of dollars through hardware alone, not considering the further revenue generated via said hardware. Their hardware offering may become less important but it's not going anywhere.


The problem is that if Xbox is truly going to put their first party efforts on multiple platforms, it doesn't really matter how committed they are to a console if there aren't any incentives for players to buy an Xbox over a PS5/6 or Switch etc.

Like going multi-plat is a move out of desperation, not an ideal strategy, to get a return on investment, and one that will irrevocably damage the prospect of purchasing Xbox hardware for years to come, that will negatively compound over time.

It's truly awful to see 😔
 

That1GoodHunter

My ass legally belongs to Ted Price
Member
Oct 17, 2019
10,962
Point is, Xbox is seriously screwed either way when the next COD gets revealed. Either the higher ups at MS and their shareholders are going to be livid (which would lead to a massacre of studios at XGS. + Bethesda + Acti), or what little remains of the goodwill they have built with the consumer through Gamepass is going to evaporate and very likely result in a PR disaster nearing Xbox One reveal levels of bad.

I would say good luck with that, but they are fully to blame for digging themselves into a hole that no amount of money is going to get them out from.
 

belairjeff

J->E Localization
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,347
The problem is that if Xbox is truly going to put their first party efforts on multiple platforms, it doesn't really matter how committed they are to a console if there aren't any incentives for players to buy an Xbox over a PS5/6 or Switch etc.

Like going multi-plat is a move out of desperation, not an ideal strategy, to get a return on investment, and one that will irrevocably damage the prospect of purchasing Xbox hardware for years to come, that will negatively compound over time.

It's truly awful to see 😔

Well if Game Pass sticks around at a reasonable price and the quality of Microsoft's games improve, I could MAYBE see there being a resurrgence of interest in the Xbox brand. But that would require, you know, actually releasing good games at a consistent manner.
 
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zerosnake99

Member
Oct 25, 2018
1,118
When was the last time there was good news? Can't even remember.
When they closed the ABK deal. Well, a lot of people thought it was good news. That level of consolidation is never good and I was never on board with it. We are clearly seeing the "benefits" here.

I honestly wonder how long it'll take to see the fruits of all their consolidation over the half decade come to play, because at this point, I'm not seeing it.
 

Dust

C H A O S
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
33,266
Starfield or Indy coming to PS5 will be the ultimate proof that nothing Phil did or said matters anymore and everything about his strategy is behind undone to cover the $70b hole.
He went himself to secure these games as console exclusives, so reversing that means whole plan they had is now in emergency mode.
 
There's thinking being done about a lot more than just HB2, believe me.
Activision killing Xbox as a brand as soon as Microsoft bought it was definitely not on video game predictions for 2024. I am once again asking how the top executives haven't been fired yet...they literally set the entire on fire to say the least.
This is the slow disintegration of a console platform / manufacturer, and it really sucks to see…
this isn't slow in the slightest, this is break neck speed...
 

Doctor_Thomas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,819
I honestly am surprised they haven't revealed the next list of PS5/Switch releases already.... but Sea of Thieves did just release.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,750
If there's a lesson everyone should take from the GamePass experiment, it's that if any deal seems "too good to be true," that's because it is.
Remember MoviePass? I and many others used the shit out of that sub service when it first came out, which led to its financial collapse.

That was the point in time I realized all these too good to be true sub services were either destined to financial ruin or would ultimately become a bait and switch once they corned the market.
 

inkblot

Member
Mar 27, 2024
189
Well if Game Pass sticks around at a reasonable price and the quality of Microsoft's games improve, I could MAYBE there being a resurrgence of interest in the Xbox brand. But that would require, you know, actually releasing good games at a consistent manner.

yeah that's the WILD thing, like it always coooooould have worked, but y'all need games, they made a sick car without any gas, and shit has been running on fumes for literally like a whole generation

game dev / management is HARD, but Microsoft has shown a particular inability to properly manage, cultivate, and foster their development teams and their growing list of IP, for years now

just really really frustrating
 

Yoshimitsu126

The Fallen
Nov 11, 2017
14,982
United States
I think Gamepass made sense if MS actually released a lot of games timely from the studios they acquired but underestimated how day one on PC makes the Xbox lack any true exclusive when a lot of people started to get into PC gaming during the pandemic.

Tech is very trendy too and followed by the enthusiasts who would see the lack of day one exclusive on Xbox and think it was either PC or PS5 for this current gen. And with fewer enthusiasts to promote Xbox and MS nonexistent marketing this gen, Xbox sales started to drop off after the hype of a new Xbox was gone in it first two years.
 
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Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,797
These last few days have really made me reevaluate my opinions on Mattrick. In a lot of ways, he was the right guy for the time when it came to the twilight years of the 360. The Kinect legitimately probably the most successful (in terms of sales and financially) peripheral released for a console, and there's no doubt that it significantly increased the 360's sales for those last 3 years.

His trouble was that he couldn't see how short lived the Kinect's success was. In some ways, that's simply an error of inertia. While the Xbox One was in development, the Kinect was selling amazingly well. From that perspective, it would have made a ton of sense to pack in a next-gen version with their next-gen system. But given how long consoles take to develop and release, by the time the Xbox One finally did come out, that Kinect audience was gone. Sony made a similar error with the PS Vita. It was a device that made a lot more sense in the time it was being developed, but not when it was released; a point in time when smartphones had eaten into their market.

Similarly, from Mattrick's point of view, it made a lot of sense for the Xbox One to be an "All in One" machine. He was the head of not only Xbox, but the Music and Video divisions of Microsoft, too. To be able to integrate those into a single device - a process that had already begun on the Xbox 360 via updates to the system - seemingly made a lot of sense. At the time the Xbox One would have been in development, the PS3 was pitching itself similarly, with its famous "It Only Does Everything" tagline.
So, I hated Kinect, but I do think the 'proof' of it not being appealing is pretty weak.

Kinect was a huge hit for MS. They then launched the follow up with Xbox One and supported it with 0 games. Then said no one is using it and discontinued it. This is, of course, Don Mattrick's fault, but like any hardware in the gaming industry, you have to support it with software. If Nintendo launched the Switch and it had 0 games on it and no one used it, that doesn't mean the concept is a failure.

I'm glad Kinect was shuttered but it definitely wasn't given a chance to succeed on Xbox One either.
 

Paquete_PT

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
5,456
Starfield or Indy coming to PS5 will be the ultimate proof that nothing Phil did or said matters anymore and everything about his strategy is behind undone to cover the $70b hole.
He went himself to secure these games as console exclusives, so reversing that means whole plan they had is now in emergency mode.
I'm pretty sure Starfield will be available on the ps5 in less than a year. You don't go multiplatform for the little games, if you opened that pandora box might as well go all in and port your money-makers.
 

Najaf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
963
Houston, TX
So if they are still debating this (cod on GP), they have a month to decide right? No way you can announce the next cod and not have a 'Day one on Gamepass' on that trailer/presentation. If you don't have that as part of the announcement, the news spiral resulting (even if its not confirmed one way or another) is going to be a disaster.

I have GP because all first party games are on it. First party is supposed to be a given and other titles a bonus.
 

Azaan60

Member
Mar 18, 2020
1,608
👌🏻
Gears
STARFIELD
Halo
Indiana Jones
Avowed

I hope all of them make the jump.

I want more games to play on my PS5.

Gimme, gimme, gimme

giphy.gif
 

BeeDog

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,684
I can't even imagine what kind of discussions are being held non-stop as we speak regarding the upcoming Xbox showcase and the announcement of a new COD there. They need to decide, like yesterday, if COD shall end up on GP or not so the entire announcement and all the marketing material surrounding it can cover the approach correctly.
 

Knight613

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,193
San Francisco
I can't even imagine what kind of discussions are being held non-stop as we speak regarding the upcoming Xbox showcase and the announcement of a new COD there. They need to decide, like yesterday, if COD shall end up on GP or not so the entire announcement and all the marketing material surrounding it can cover the approach correctly.
Depending on how badly this is effecting their brand, I can see them just going "yes, COD this year is on Game Pass" without committing to the next one.

And then raise the price of Game Pass right before COD comes out.
 

RocknRola

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,361
Portugal
I can't even imagine what kind of discussions are being held non-stop as we speak regarding the upcoming Xbox showcase and the announcement of a new COD there. They need to decide, like yesterday, if COD shall end up on GP or not so the entire announcement and all the marketing material surrounding it can cover the approach correctly.

It's one heck of a decision. You can't not have the following CoD's on it, if this years release is there. The outcry would be huge. And the consequences of going that, revenue wise, would be dire.


At the same time, not doing but also still increasing the price of GP will merit negative reactions. Perhaps not as bad though, so while bitter this might be the better of the two poisons moving forward.
 

BeeDog

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,684
Depending on how badly this is effecting their brand, I can see them just going "yes, COD this year is on Game Pass" without committing to the next one.

And then raise the price of Game Pass right before COD comes out.

It's one heck of a decision. You can't not have the following CoD's on it, if this years release is there. The outcry would be huge. And the consequences of going that, revenue wise, would be dire.


At the same time, not doing but also still increasing the price of GP will merit negative reactions. Perhaps not as bad though, so while bitter this might be the better of the two poisons moving forward.

One thing's for sure, I'd not want to be in their executive clown shoes right now to make this decision (and looking at all the other doom-news), even for all the money in the world 🤡
 

belairjeff

J->E Localization
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,347
Keep raising the price of Game Pass is going to kill it. There just isn't enough first party content coming out on a regular basis to warrant a price increase. And Call of Duty alone would not get me to resub at a higher price.