Oct 25, 2017
565
You would hate it in California. Plenty of white people braids and dreds, plus many other non-black people with them as well.
The California that only enacted gun control because of the Black Panthers, where tech companies turn a blind eye to racism in their ranks, and home to the infamous LA PD? Yeah, I don't think I'd like it there. Californians are the archetype for the white moderate.

A lot of words and even more hot air.
 

exodus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,971
Just to speak about a slightly different subject with which I can more closely relate. Maybe more on the side of assimilation rather than appropriation.

I'm French Canadian. There are some strong feelings on both sides of the fence. Some Quebecois will do anything to protect their language, while others want nothing more than to assimilate into the rest of Canada.

I used to be on the latter side. But getting older, I have been more appreciative of my Quebeoic roots as I visit my family in Lac St-Jean. The culture, the art scene, the food. It's amazing how such a unique culture has come to be. This is largely in part to such a strong sense of ownership and protection of the Quebecois culture by the province and its people.

On the other hand, I love sharing my Quebecois roots. I'm a foodie, and that is where my artistic passions lie, so that is my main way of sharing the culture. Poutine, tourtierre du Lac-St Jean, cretons, soupe aux gourganes, pudding chomeur, maple syrup. I'm humbled and honored by people enjoying part of this culture. When 19-2 went to Bravo as an English series I thought it was pretty cool since it was helping expose some of the Quebecois culture to the rest of Canada, though I'm sure many were angered by the appropriation.
 

Xenon

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,266
Lot of different black people from many different places in Africa, you mean.

Not to derail the thread but look into the history of just about every single aspect of American culture you can think of. Really look into it. Nearly all of it came from black people, either directly or indirectly.

If you find that "insulting," it might say something about your internal biases and be cause for self-reflection.


Nope. I am am not going to engage in a debate that will easily be spun into me somehow belittling African American's immeasurably large contributions to the US cultural landscape. But I will say your statement is grossly wrong and insensitive to our countries cultural history.
 

Loanshark

Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,637
That's not cultural appropriation if you are mocking something associated with a certain culture. That's just racism.

A culture is not a race. I mean, the meaning is in the word itself, how some people still get it wrong is just mindboggling to me. It can be intolerant, in bad taste, or an unfair characterisation, but it cant be racist, by definition.
 

VCFL

Member
Jan 24, 2018
2,944
It is a shame that some people understand the issue while others are blind to it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,263
The unwritten just means it's inherently and universally understood.

No one thinks "tacos" are a byproduct of white culture even if they don't proclaim out loud as such every time they walk into a "Mexican" restaurant.

But people in this thread are being shocked to discover that rock and roll was created by black people, because black people's presence and contributions were erased from the collective consciousness over time. That is the difference.

The mexican food and culture you have in America is clearly a by product of white people, just as mexican culture is a by product of the indigenous and hispanic cultures (although the later more important) and other cultures in lesser ways depending on the region (like the US, Germany, France, China etc etc).

I mean, tacos al pastor are the most popular kind of tacos, is the taco, and mexicans don't go running around saying they got it from the libanese.
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
Yes. In it's glorious studio system, churning out movies for the masses.

Technically, various characters lay claim to the invention of 'moving pictures' so to speak.
...now look into the subject matter of the breakthrough films that gave birth to that glorious studio system. Either the subject of the films themselves, or the culture that serves as the backdrop. Birth of a Nation, The Jazz Singer...
 

Cream

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,316
Well according to this thread in order for one to "enjoy another culture" they must write an essay as to why they need to enjoy said culture and state their reasoning for it, as well as make it very clear for all to see that they are not being a culture vulture by any means possible.
Is that so wrong? Having consideration and respect?

My best friend, a white girl, loves wearing her hair in braids. She mentioned to me that someone gave her shit for it, and she came to me and asked me how to make sure she wasn't being disrespectful and if they were ok to wear.

According to you, that's just TOO much to ask. I'd call someone with that opinion lazy and disrespectful.
 

Cranston

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,377
Either the subject of the films themselves, or the culture that serves as the backdrop. Birth of a Nation, The Jazz Singer...

If you're going to look up things on Wikipedia, make sure you get the right movie.

You're presumably referencing Birth of a Nation as in the 2016 film. The original was a civil war drama.
 
Jan 29, 2018
679
Is that so wrong? Having consideration and respect?

My best friend, a white girl, loves wearing her hair in braids. She mentioned to me that someone gave her shit for it, and she came to me and asked me how to make sure she wasn't being disrespectful and if they were ok to wear.

According to you, that's just TOO much to ask. I'd call someone with that opinion lazy and disrespectful.

Okay so next time your friend gets shit for it , she say the "well my black friend said it's okay" is she meant to show an approved document signed by you as well to go with it. Well next time I drive my car and get a train I'll be sure to ask my white friends if it's acceptable.
 
Is that so wrong? Having consideration and respect?

My best friend, a white girl, loves wearing her hair in braids. She mentioned to me that someone gave her shit for it, and she came to me and asked me how to make sure she wasn't being disrespectful and if they were ok to wear.

According to you, that's just TOO much to ask. I'd call someone with that opinion lazy and disrespectful.
Are you implying that all you have to do is ask a black friend and you're good? Please elaborate on your anecdote. What did you tell her? You can't say "I asked my black friend" and expect it to be okay lol.
 

Cream

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,316
Okay so next time your friend gets shit for it , she say the "well my black friend said it's okay" is she meant to show an approved document signed by you as well to go with it. Well next time I drive my car and get a train I'll be sure to ask my white friends if it's acceptable.
No you troll.

She uses the advice I gave her to always be respectful and self-aware about the contributions black people have made, do her willing part to support the black community and not let people who don't know her belittle her confidence in that.

The way you even frame this is hilariously inept. It's not about getting a "pass" so people stop being mean to you if you're white and wear braids. Telling that that's the part you choose to focus on.

I'm talking about the relationship I have with my white friend that wears braids and I'm very confident that she loves, respects and wants to help the black community. Not strangers that insult her.
 

Ravensmash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,797
Is that so wrong? Having consideration and respect?

My best friend, a white girl, loves wearing her hair in braids. She mentioned to me that someone gave her shit for it, and she came to me and asked me how to make sure she wasn't being disrespectful and if they were ok to wear.

According to you, that's just TOO much to ask. I'd call someone with that opinion lazy and disrespectful.

I mean, it's lazy and disrespectful for someone to give your friend shit for her hairstyle, under the presumption that it's being done in poor taste.
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
If you're going to look up things on Wikipedia, make sure you get the right movie.

You're presumably referencing Birth of a Nation as in the 2016 film. The original was a civil war drama.
As we all know, the Civil War had absolutely nothing to do with black people.

Why the hell would I be talking about the 2016 film in this conversation?

I'll not derail the thread further with this discussion, but do your research. Music, film, art, language, dancing, arguably even religion. Look far enough back into the modern "American culture" versions of these things and you'll find black faces. Either as the creators, the subject matter, the root cause of the subject matter, or the inspiration.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,741
UK
An alternative view.

There's this weird old place called Europe. Europe has lots of countries. White people have lived there for many years. To while away their time, they wrote books, put on plays, wrote music, created buildings, invented sports, cooked food, produced different types of clothes, spoke different languages, performed silly dances, came up with different forms of Government, split their churches and religions, painted, sculpted, had revolutions and fought wars.

Some of it is quite interesting.
Many Europeans didn't consider themselves white or were allowed to compared to Africa and being considered black. There's been plenty of conflicts about not accepting certain Europeans as white or as part of the majority race.
Did black people invent cinema?
Nope.

I mean the invention and proliferation of a form of cultural expression that has dominated popular culture for the last seventy or so years.
No, but cinema started out as basically filming theatrical productions and minstrel shows happen to be those. What was your question getting at, though? Cause no one was asserting black people invented cinema or other mediums of art (except for certain genres of music like rock, blues, r&b, soul, funk, hip hop, grime). Black people didn't have that power. Black people contributed a lot to cinema though, particularly since 1919 thanks to Oscar Micheaux.
 

Cream

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,316
Someone is literally arguing Birth of a Nation = white culture.

I mean hey, if the shoe fits.
 

Cranston

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,377
Bro.. stop what you are doing and google that shit.

I know exactly what it is.

I was responding to the utterly absurd statement that 'white people had not come up with a single thing of cultural significance' in America. It even misused the term 'literally' to boot.

I pointed out that Cinema - the most popular cultural art form of the twentieth century - was the invention of white Americans. That popular movies featured black people is a statement of the obvious. It doesn't mean they lay claim to the art form. It's like saying Ralph Ellison invented literature.
 

blinky

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,329
Okay so next time your friend gets shit for it , she say the "well my black friend said it's okay" is she meant to show an approved document signed by you as well to go with it. Well next time I drive my car and get a train I'll be sure to ask my white friends if it's acceptable.
This is exactly how I read that post too. The follow-up didn't really change things either.
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
I'm saying that cinema, the cesspool that is Hollywood and all it's God awful movies was setup, proliferated and controlled by white people.

If not, why is Black Panther such a big deal?
This country of ours was setup, proliferated and controlled by white people too. By systemically exploiting black people.

...just like in the minstrelsy industry that grew to become the film industry.

...just like every other element of cultural significance in American history.

You don't have to be proud of it (I'm not) but you should stop trying to whitewash our history.
 

Cream

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,316
This is exactly how I read that post too. The follow-up didn't really change things either.
Then you need to learn to read.

Let me spell it out as simply as I can for you guys.

My white friend wears braids.

She was judged by other white people for wearing them.

Instead of getting insulted and yelling out how unracist she is

Instead of whining about multi culturalism and melting pots

She came to me, her black friend, to get my perspective on if what she was doing was disrespectful

She also went to other black people and asked them.

She also -gasp- did research, from black writers about the subject.

THIS IS EXACTLY HOW I KNOW SHE RESPECTS BLACK PEOPLE

THATS ALL THAT MATTERS.
 

Cream

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,316
I'm saying that cinema, the cesspool that is Hollywood and all it's God awful movies was setup, proliferated and controlled by white people.

If not, why is Black Panther such a big deal?
First American form of theater: minstrel shows. Black face.

Highly influential and regarded as the pioneer of cinematic language as we know it: Birth of a Nation, a film which has tons of blackface, a black man tries to rape a white woman and the KKK WINS.

First sound film: The Jazz Singer. With, you guessed it. Blackface.

s-l300.jpg


"Features black people" indeed.

I wonder how many black people got absolutely any credit or recognition or recompense for any of this?

Oh you know some black people were in minstrel shows too so I guess we're all good right? Even though they got paid less then they're white costars. Isn't that fucked up? Black people get paid less to pretend to be black than white people.
 

Cranston

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,377
You don't have to be proud of it (I'm not) but you should stop trying to whitewash our history.

I'm not whitewashing anything.

You stated that 'literally' anything of value came from Black America, which is astonishingly absurd. You've taken how ever many hundreds of years of history out and stated unequivocally that nothing of value has emanated from white individuals (moreover, Mexicans and Latinos and Cubans and Asian Americans and Jewish people say hi').

It's just the sort of amazingly bigoted statement that people can come up with when they think they're morally justified.
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
I'm not whitewashing anything.

You stated that 'literally' anything of value came from Black America, which is astonishingly absurd. You've taken how ever many hundreds of years of history out and stated unequivocally that nothing of value has emanated from white individuals (moreover, Mexicans and Latinos and Cubans and Asian Americans and Jewish people say hi').

It's just the sort of amazingly bigoted statement that people can come up with when they think they're morally justified.
Everything of value? No.

Everything of distinctly American cultural significance (especially in the country's formative years)? Yes.

Other minority groups have been greatly fleeced as well, but American culture was built on the backs of black folks. Generally without their consent. That's a historical fact, not a "bigoted" statement of opinion.
 

Deleted member 15326

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,219
I'm not whitewashing anything.

You stated that 'literally' anything of value came from Black America, which is astonishingly absurd. You've taken how ever many hundreds of years of history out and stated unequivocally that nothing of value has emanated from white individuals (moreover, Mexicans and Latinos and Cubans and Asian Americans and Jewish people say hi').

It's just the sort of amazingly bigoted statement that people can come up with when they think they're morally justified.

You called rule of law white culture in that locked thread so yeah...
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
I'm not whitewashing anything.

You stated that 'literally' anything of value came from Black America, which is astonishingly absurd. You've taken how ever many hundreds of years of history out and stated unequivocally that nothing of value has emanated from white individuals (moreover, Mexicans and Latinos and Cubans and Asian Americans and Jewish people say hi').

It's just the sort of amazingly bigoted statement that people can come up with when they think they're morally justified.

Except we are quick to call the roots of other origins. We are quick to credit the Germans, Italians, Chinese in their contributions to American Culture. Black America? We pretend the white people invented it first then scream at all other parts of the culture until its properly strangled from its roots then called its own.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
How much of this is genuine interest in other cultures, vs. white people getting mad and defensive over being told they can't do something?
Because white people REALLY don't like being told they can't do something.
 

SugarNoodles

Member
Nov 3, 2017
8,625
Portland, OR
Then you need to learn to read.

Let me spell it out as simply as I can for you guys.

My white friend wears braids.

She was judged by other white people for wearing them.

Instead of getting insulted and yelling out how unracist she is

Instead of whining about multi culturalism and melting pots

She came to me, her black friend, to get my perspective on if what she was doing was disrespectful

She also went to other black people and asked them.

She also -gasp- did research, from black writers about the subject.

THIS IS EXACTLY HOW I KNOW SHE RESPECTS BLACK PEOPLE

THATS ALL THAT MATTERS.
It's funny because all you're saying is that people need to think about these kinds of things and everyone is like "but what's the minimum amount of thought I can commit to this so that I don't have to think about it anymore?"
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
How much of this is genuine interest in other cultures, vs. white people getting mad and defensive over being told they can't do something?
Because white people REALLY don't like being told they can't do something.
That's partially it, definitely. Another part of is that modern white people, in America at least, don't really have a culture of their own (except white supremacy, which... yeah). Anything we latch on to is someone else's culture.