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The women who reviewed Cyberpunk 2077 for GameSpot and Polygon are being harassed and threatened on social media

WildWayz

WildWayz

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
285
User Banned (Permanent): Transphobic content, dismissing concerns of minority members. Prior ban for inflammatory behavior and account in junior phase.
I don't think any game can cater to every single market out there. We live in a time where everyone takes offence to everything that is said and done. I mentioned before that this game will score highly regardless of bugs from the offset - simply because review sites are scared of the backlash.

I've played 2hrs so far and come across a lot of bugs on the PC - from people walking through doorways and what they were carrying was stuck there, to items being unable to be picked up... even the bit where you collect your gun, the prompt stayed even though I picked it up and it wouldn't progress until I restarted the checkpoint.

One of my best friends transitioned from male to female (she fully finished her transition a few years ago) and is more concerned over real life being accepted than in a video game. She uses a voice changer on her phone when talking on the phone as she's worried people will laugh at her. Me? I give no shits being seen with her - if anyone has an issue, take it up with me and see how that pans out. People should be who they want to be and not feel threatened. Thankfully, she lives in a place which is really accepting of her - but if she went to other places, the abuse is awful.

I spoke to her before about gaming and how transgender people are portrayed, and for her and the majority of the group she is part of are not bothered at all. Provided the game developers are not portraying them in a negative light (ie purposely being picked on) - then they just want to be treated as normal. No special gloves - just use them in game as any normal person would be used as a character.

I also work for a company who employs 3 transgender women, and again - no one bats an eyelid. What we DO notice, is normal people acting like prats. :)

I haven't been following this whole CDPR transphobic debacle so apologies if I have misinterpreted anything...

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Arkanim94

Arkanim94

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,148
WildWayz said:
I don't think any game can cater to every single market out there. We live in a time where everyone takes offence to everything that is said and done. I mentioned before that this game will score highly regardless of bugs from the offset - simply because review sites are scared of the backlash.

I've played 2hrs so far and come across a lot of bugs on the PC - from people walking through doorways and what they were carrying was stuck there, to items being unable to be picked up... even the bit where you collect your gun, the prompt stayed even though I picked it up and it wouldn't progress until I restarted the checkpoint.

One of my best friends transitioned from male to female (she fully finished her transition a few years ago) and is more concerned over real life being accepted than in a video game. She uses a voice changer on her phone when talking on the phone as she's worried people will laugh at her. Me? I give no shits being seen with her - if anyone has an issue, take it up with me and see how that pans out. People should be who they want to be and not feel threatened. Thankfully, she lives in a place which is really accepting of her - but if she went to other places, the abuse is awful.

I spoke to her before about gaming and how transgender people are portrayed, and for her and the majority of the group she is part of are not bothered at all. Provided the game developers are not portraying them in a negative light (ie purposely being picked on) - then they just want to be treated as normal. No special gloves - just use them in game as any normal person would be used as a character.

I also work for a company who employs 3 transgender women, and again - no one bats an eyelid. What we DO notice, is normal people acting like prats. :)

I haven't been following this whole CDPR transphobic debacle so apologies if I have misinterpreted anything...
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what?
 
Lothars

Lothars

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,765
toastyToast said:
I'd argue they only became a company worth rattling cages over after The Witcher 3, their giant breakout hit. Before that they were moderately successful PC game developer. Their games nor the studio could not command this kind of fervour and lunacy back in 2015. They're now "big dogs" and what we're seeing is "big dog" shit on the level of console wars or highly anticipated exclusives.

I'm not saying there isn't another angle at play but this happened repeatedly without any other unsavoury contributing factors.
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Yes but i'm saying that CDPR has stepped it up and engaged and further made that fanbase even worst because of direct things they have said and done. You are right that it's since the witcher 3 but it needs to be called out.
 
Voodoowoolf

Voodoowoolf

Member
Oct 31, 2017
631
fourfourfun said:
It was touched on in a Jim Sterling video, we are at a point where the audience has been conditioned.

* Create their identity around products
* As such, their being is linked to hype and Metacritic
* Criticising product is the equivalent of being attacked themselves
* As "the consumer", they are central to everything, anything that they do not value should be resisted, any way they are not satisfied should be loudly complained about

The only way to really change this is to change brand marketing. Break the link between product and consumer, stop the consumer-centric perspective, start spinning in outsider perspectives.
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Great post and hits the problem directly. This won't change as these companies make way too much money to ever address it. Like look at Marvel or Star Wars fanbases consisting of a bunch of grown men (mostly white men) who have their whole identity tied to these franchisees and anything that goes against that will be attacked. It's pathetic but this is the consumerist culture we live in which people have their whole beings tied up in products. Fucked up.
 
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EdibleKnife

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
Carolyn's review is the only one I've read and it's so extremely fair to the game beyond its depictions of trans identity. The idea that that isn't enough for these gross hordes is so telling. There's a multitude of reviews they could read if they simply want one that completely fellates the game but they deliberately aimed for any ones that would justify a good ol' fashioned bigoted anti-trans harassment campaign to wile away the time until their collector's edition arrived. I genuinely feel gross being invested in the same hobby as people like this.
 
N7_Kovalski

N7_Kovalski

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,460
I feel so bad for Kallie and Carolyn. We need people like them in the industry to help push gaming journalism forward. I feel like every time they do anything, they are attacked. Gamers suck.
 
PAFenix

PAFenix

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Nov 21, 2019
14,751
Voodoowoolf said:
Great post and hits the problem directly. This won't change as these companies make way too much money to ever address it. Like look at Marvel or Star Wars fanbases consisting of a bunch of grown men (mostly white men) who have their whole identity tied to these franchisees and anything that goes against that will be attacked. It's pathetic but this is the consumerist culture we live in which people have their whole beings tied up in products. Fucked up.
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We have a thread HERE trying to talk about the depiction of grunt enemies in Marvel's Spider-Man and a defense force that won't engage past drive-bys of "It's just a comic book you're taking it too seriously."
 
Lamptramp

Lamptramp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,397
Germany
Absoludacrous said:
Not surprised in the slightest. CDPR threw up giant batsignals to attract these kinds of people, so it's no surprise there's a mob of them foaming at the mouth to attack women. Or critics. Or especially women critics.
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Yes.

haveheart said:
This should be posted on every page.

lol@people in here arguing that this is not a Cyberpunk problem but a "gamer culture" problem. With that kind of edgy marketing, history of disgusting pro-GG and anti-progressive tweets, CDPR has been clearly positioning themselves and is obviously ok with their customers being what they are. They enable this kind of behaviour. This IS a Cyberpunk problem just as it is a CDPR problem. They just happily tapped into the existing cess pool of these gamers that'd become their closest followers.
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Yes.

astro said:
CDPR are intelligent, internet savvy people.

They actively cultivated this audience, they helped amplify it to churn up hype for their edgy video game.

The idea that they wouldn't understand the consequences of doing this is laughable.
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Yes.

Ferrs said:
After all what happened with the trans community, they put this in the game

screenshot2020-12-07a3aj75.png


they know.
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1000 times yes, this is 100% totally on CDPR, they want his kind of community, they cultivate this kind of community and they reward this kind of community.

Fuck CDPR.
 
fourfourfun

fourfourfun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,698
England
Voodoowoolf said:
Great post and hits the problem directly. This won't change as these companies make way too much money to ever address it. Like look at Marvel or Star Wars fanbases consisting of a bunch of grown men (mostly white men) who have their whole identity tied to these franchisees and anything that goes against that will be attacked. It's pathetic but this is the consumerist culture we live in which people have their whole beings tied up in products. Fucked up.
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It's that last bit which is something that is really worth thinking about when it comes to their mentality. I've been reading this latest one from TQ and there is a load of "it is nothing to with that she is a woman" which I do firmly believe that they believe is true. Every time it centres around someone who has a completely different life experience, a different perspective on a product, just something that doesn't fit their experiences to date - which is, in gaming, all standard dudes together enjoying dude things.

You can see it running through the commentary around the braindance scenes - I watched it, had precisely 0% impact on me, yet I am not so utterly conditioned to get in a massive twist when someone pops up to say "hey, you should maybe think about these people".

But there we go, consumerism has re-enforced the sentiment that you are the most important viewpoint and are totally right, lumped in with the political climate of wedge politics absolutely wrecking any initiatives around empathy and consideration.
 
Voodoowoolf

Voodoowoolf

Member
Oct 31, 2017
631
PAFenix said:
We have a thread HERE trying to talk about the depiction of grunt enemies in Marvel's Spider-Man and a defense force that won't engage past drive-bys of "It's just a comic book you're taking it too seriously."
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I don't even want to venture in such a thread my blood would boil haha. These grown men who defend such things will never engage with these things critically as it will lead to questioning their own flawed belief systems hence silly drive-by posts.
 
Voodoowoolf

Voodoowoolf

Member
Oct 31, 2017
631
fourfourfun said:
It's that last bit which is something that is really worth thinking about when it comes to their mentality. I've been reading this latest one from TQ and there is a load of "it is nothing to with that she is a woman" which I do firmly believe that they believe is true. Every time it centres around someone who has a completely different life experience, a different perspective on a product, just something that doesn't fit their experiences to date - which is, in gaming, all standard dudes together enjoying dude things.

You can see it running through the commentary around the braindance scenes - I watched it, had precisely 0% impact on me, yet I am not so utterly conditioned to get in a massive twist when someone pops up to say "hey, you should maybe think about these people".

But there we go, consumerism has re-enforced the sentiment that you are the most important viewpoint and are totally right, lumped in with the political climate of wedge politics absolutely wrecking any initiatives around empathy and consideration.
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Another great post and couldn't of said it better myself. Anything that doesn't fit with their own world view is attacked and thrown under a dumb term like 'culture wars'. These people seem to think that minorities and trans people just exist as objects to them to be used and played with whenever they deem fit and when someone comes and criticises that they become incredibly hostile. Makes me think of the idea of the 'other' or the 'look' in which anyone who doesn't fit the mould of white European male is subject to being gazed as the other and deemed to be unworthy of humanity and just an object.
 
Unclebenny

Unclebenny

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,770
GungJoe said:
I also like her Pokemon review. While it's often reduced down to 'too much water' she raises a fair point about how featuring too many water areas negatively impacts the experience of a Pokemon game - (predictable typing, and constant randomised battles).

I also dislike the continuous sentiment that games journalists can't be trusted or are somehow inferior to games youtubers. Those two groups of people are almost the same thing. In the end it's just one persons perspective on a game. I tend to enjoy video game reviews because as a gaming enthusiast and professional I find their perspectives tend to lean more towards mine than the average youtuber. The professional reviews often pay more attention to the social and political context that the game has released into, as well as paying more attention to technical innovations within the field and genre.
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The funny thing is, she didn't even write "too much water".



The thing is, there is no point trying to argue the details of this with these people. You get nowhere because they shift the goalposts everytime. If you ask for proof of whatever they are claiming, they either can't provide or point you to something that isn't actually proof and is usually just a video of a man shouting for an hour in front of funko pops.

I've been stringing along one of these goons today on Twitter and it is exactly like goobergate was the first time. There is no logic to what they are doing. I asked why they care that a game got 7, he claimed it was about greater corruption in games journalism. I repeatedly pointed out that even if that were true, corruption in games journalism is worth literally zero energy expenditure.

Then he pivoted to that quartering guy being the real victim because loads of games journalists told him to fuck off.

I saw this pattern last time, this is essentially the same people, still taking up valuable cubic space in a world that only wants to exploit their idiocy.

The reality is they are angry because their favourite game got some criticism or that they feel minorities are pushing them out of "their" space and they have to flail around for a justification for that feeling.
 
KingK

KingK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,860
Jesus christ, wtf is wrong with people. I will never understand this mentality.

You can disagree with a review without being a toxic fucking sociopath. I remember when Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn got a 6 on IGN (for among other things, a lack of Mii support lol), and I thought it was a dumb review. I was like, 15 at the time. But rather than fucking harass the reviewer, I just thought "those sound like dumb criticisms" and moved on, bought the game, and loved it.

If I could do that at 15, why are grown ass adults having sociopathic tantrums over a game review?

Social media platforms need to step up in a major way to moderate this kind of harassment and threats. Anyone participating should be banned, all these toxic youtube channels indoctrinating easily influenced young men into alt-right, radical misogynist views need to be shut down and banned.

I'm tired of these companies acting like they just can't do anything because of "free speech." They aren't the goddamn government - they are private entities operating private platforms, and they have every right (I would argue a social obligation) to moderate this shit. But they won't, because it's a highly engaged demographic that draws a lot of traffic and revenue. Fucking pathetic.
 
Ravelle

Ravelle

Member
Oct 31, 2017
17,829
The fact that people call a 7 low is absolutely baffling to me. Especially about a game they never even played.
 
Alexhex

Alexhex

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,881
Canada
PancakeFlip said:
This actually seems a bit abstruse, its basically going to a review to see how much of the game's core can be avoided.
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Idk what to tell ya, people play games in different ways and I personally ignore the fat in big open world games all the time. Again like criticize the analysis or prose or whatever but I don't like gatekeeping around amount of experience with a genre or thoroughness when it comes to an embargo review, especially when the timeline was as tight as it was here
 
MaitreWakou

MaitreWakou

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
May 15, 2018
13,180
Toulouse, France
CDPR has cultivated a pro gamergate audience for years. Their whole audience on Twitter and Reddit are dude bros. They hate women, they hate minorities.
5 years have passed since gamergate and nothing have changed, and nothing will as long as we let trash publishers like CDPR get away with their shit.
 

Deleted member 10795

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,302
AcademicSaucer said:
I think that's just gamers in general because I don't think Naughty Dog has cultivated a fanbase that sends dead threats to reviewers that don't give their games a 10/10
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I don't know if this included death threats, but you must have missed the reaction threads to Uncharted 3 receiving 8/10 scores. That was one of the stand out review threads I can remember from GAF (in the old days) for just how pathetic it was.

EDIT: For clarity, I would agree with you that ND haven't actively cultivated those reactions in the way that CDPR have, though.
 
Amnixia

Amnixia

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Jan 25, 2018
10,436
This is why I hate gaming culture. Just a bunch of insecure little shits that get angry and think it is okay to attack others (especially women) if they point out something.
 
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