Yeah, the questions asked are also immensely important. There's so much that can go wrong with giving and receiving feedback, it really really doesn't have to be malicious in intent. There's a reason good consultants and trainers are worth every cent. Because they know both which questions and answers are helpful for a project.
This seems more of an issue with translation notes. I'm assuming they didn't literally use Google Translate to handle those...I hope
I'm not accusing them of literally using google translate, but I'm assuming they didn't check with someone that actually reads Chinese in actual game context (dying).
The author makes it clear that there are different discussions that one can have. If one is seeking discussions about the merits and successes of the gameplay mechanics, they refer them to seek out the many many content creators and writers that are effusive about it. The conversation that not enough people are having, is about the portrayal and perceived appropriation of a culture for set dressing. This is the caricature the article is referring to, and it is this that the author describes as "soulless," not the gameplay. Let's not strawman here. Apologies for my tone if it seems exasperated, but your comment reads like someone who isn't valuing the frustration of others who are sick and fucking tired of this. There will be plenty of praise to go around for this studio, but there is definitely justified outrage.
That plus diversifying your development staff is never a bad thing in general, especially given who white-dominated their team currently is.
That's a bit strange. I don't know if you'd even be able to make a mistake like that if you really did just use Google Translate. (Unless words were given to someone to translate without any context.)
Without knowing the difference and not consulting with a native speaker, I can see how a developer might just think them interchangeable and pick one over the other for arbitrary reasons.
Honestly I'm not sure I see the difference compared with say using the word dojo to refer to a japanese martial arts training hall/school. Unless these people picked the wrong word for the kung fu equivalent.
Your issue with the language seems like a tone policing diversion from all the good examination about the cultural elements that the writer went into with examples and explanations of how they're used in the culture, with plenty of reasoning why they thought it came off as soulless. It seems you and another poster are strawmanning the article by saying they're implying the developers are malicious or asking for boycotts when that is straight up lying. I don't know why you emphasise "FOR ME"? Isn't it obvious it's your opinion? Also, Sloclap is a studio with martial arts in mind from the beginning. They've had martial arts folks as involved since Absolver. That's why a lot of people got interested in their first game because they had real martial artists providing knowledge about the movesets and philosophy. So considering martial arts is not a part of white culture, they could have hired people from the background of it. Imagine as an empathic exercise if a developer made games cribbing from blaxploitation, Nordic culture, Native Americans, Hindu mythology, etc and didn't have people from the background in the team makeup. Consultants can only do so much. It inevitably leads to inaccuracies and inauthenticity because you're not living and breathing that culture if you're not raised in it. Hence why it can come off as "soulless", that it's just set dressing for exoticness or orientalism in this case.
Thank you for further breaking the signage down, very insightful!
Thank you for this.
This all sounds terrible and a detriment to the experience if you belong to the culture the game tries to pay homage too, which just goes to show what a poor job they did on that front.
I thought more recent games have started to indicate the opposite? For example, Yakuza and Persona use terms like "aniki" and "senpai" even in the English dubs, as any direct translation sort of misses the core meaning. I don't think either of these terms really meet the "dojo" standard of loanword either, and this technique is a major improvement to early Yakuza where everyone was calling each other "big bro" all the time. To bring it back to this game, from reading this thread, "sifu" doesn't mean the English word "master" exactly, as no English speaker will refer to a taxi driver as "Master".
If people want to have a harsh tone they are free to, but for the reasons I stated it really isn't deserved imo, and the title of the article linked in the OP itself is really unnecessarily harsh. If you want to make my post more about that then go ahead. That is me expressing my opinion on the article title. This talk on details in the article, great, I hope sloclap is taking notes,but a lot of them are non-issues/actually not that weird according to a Chinese poster in this thread, and imo it's clearly not a soulless game nor blatantly toxic in any way, not even close. They clearly needed, like, translator and it is a little embarassing for them....but at worse they clearly weren't as thorough as needed to be in the games cultural research which I'm more inclined to forgive given that it is an indie team, although it is obviously a blunder. I would agree that it is important for submersion, not because I think it is so horrible for a foreign team to not nail every single detail about a foreign culture that they clearly show no disrespect towards as to call it soulless though. The game has a lot of soul
Considering the fact that "minorities" is still an acceptable term, you can do whatever you like. I am one. And no. I haven't played any Metal Gear games and I'm ok with that.
I wasn't tryna strawman, I still don't think it is soulless even in it's portrayal. Think it's a good discussion to have to show peoples desire for things like more thorough cultural research during development but to me, there's nothing really disrespectful there that should make anyone angry disappointed sure, but it's an indie studio w the limitations that comes w that. They are clearly more in tune with hong kong action flicks then they are the culture of China itself, but there is still soul that I think is on clear display even with little touches like the Old Boy hallway scene reference near the start of the game
Smart call editing out calling the writer stupid, that was a home run way to make your point
You are entitled to your opinion, but I don't think you understand what I was trying to say. The cultural set dressing can be soulless while not indicting, in any way, the value of the gameplay or intent. I also have no reason to think the developers were malicious in any way, but the result is clearly offensive to a number of people. Just because you don't agree, doesn't make their outrage any less justified. And the size of the studio does not excuse anything, whether you hope it does or not. I'm happy that you're willing to engage in these discussions, but your goal seems to be to dismiss rather than learn or listen.
That's fair, and I do think I should be more sensitive with my language. My point is that I think people trying should be worked with, although I think the severity of messing up on simple translation is a little more severe then that.
An important note about your point is that we're talking about how Americans living in the US would react. And, yea, I think white Americans, living in a country where they are the majority population (where the vast majority of content is created with them in mind, with them as the stars, with them as the heroes), they won't mind being portrayed as a caricature in a foreign game here or there. They might even think it quirky or a fun curiosity. But what about American expats? What about an American born child who's moved to Japan. How might they feel when they see that game and think that this is how their friends and neighbors think of them? It's an important consideration, though it doesn't have be the dominant one.
Sorry, I meant to say I was confused by BobLoblaw's question!
One thing I would mention is, there are parodies, and then there are things played straight. Like Chinese devs made Banner of the Maid, about a bunch hot anime characters including Napoleon's sister. That's just not expected to be serious, and therefore feedback/critique is also more muted (not to say it didn't deserve some WTFs). Metal Wolf Chaos and Vanquish belong in the parody category too.
And SoT had bad menu Japanese localization initially pointed out by twitter too.
