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Erevador

Member
Oct 25, 2017
629
THE STRANGE CASE OF THE EVIL WITHIN 2

*This thread is carefully written to avoid ruining the experience for new players.*


"If the doors of perception were cleansed everything would appear to man as it is, infinite." - William Blake
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"Some keys open doors of perception. But this isn't one of them." - Tatiana, The Evil Within 2

"The doors of perception." An evocative phrase from Blake, and the title of Aldous Huxley's legendary documentation of his transcendental experiences using the drug Mescalin in the 1950s.

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The Evil Within is in large part a series about ways of seeing, so the reference is appropriate. And indeed, how the player chooses to see the series may in large part structure their level of appreciation for it. At first glance, it can seem a jumble of horror cliches, a retro throwback, a melodrama, a disorienting mishmash. At first glance...

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Let's look a little closer.

The Evil Within 2 is a Jungian journey
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"Your perception will become clear only when you can look into your soul." - Carl Jung

The Evil WIthin series is explicit about the fact that the characters are inhabiting a "collective unconscious." This is a psychoanalytic idea that refers to collectively held imagination and archetypes that lurk beneath the surface of all human beings. The Evil Within series literalizes this idea by placing the player in a world that is a collective creation, generated and sustained by the minds of the character involved.

The Evil Within 1 is a Freudian nightmare, inhabiting the malformed mind of one painfully stuck in perverse infantile obsession. The player is tasked with escaping the disorienting horrorshow they've fallen into.

The Evil Within 2 is something quite different, it is a Jungian journey towards maturation and integration.
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"We carry our past with us, the primitive and inferior man with his desires and emotions, and it is only with an enormous effort that we can detach ourselves from this burden. If it comes to a neurosis, we invariably have to deal with a considerably intensified shadow. And if such a person wants to be cured it is necessary to find a way in which his conscious personality and his shadow can live together." - Carl Jung

The world of the Evil Within is one inhabited by many for whom the Jungian "shadow" has completely taken hold. Characters are enslaved to their fears and obsessions, losing themselves in darkness. The lead character of the game, Sebastian Castellanos, is halfway there when the game begins. He is desperate with grief and self-hatred, blaming himself for his inability to protect his daughter from the fate that has befallen her. The game slowly forces Sebastian to come to terms with his own unresolved issues and fears.

Jung believed you had to integrate the shadow, in some sense to become the monster in order to control it. This idea is explicitly mirrored in The Evil Within 2 in a brilliant sequence that harks back to a memorable encounter from the first game in which Sebastian appeared as a hunted animal. In the Evil Within 2 he has to embrace the part of himself that is a predator in order to avoid ever being prey again. Very Jung.

Sebastian also encounters many mysterious feminine forces that seem to evoke (and in fact explicitly reference) the Jungian idea of the Anima. These forces are represented in both positive and negative representations, and Sebastian must ultimately vanquish the negative force while developing his relationship with the positive.
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The negative force is represented by a ghostly creature that bedevils Sebastian and pulls him back into his traumatic experiences from the first game. This character is explicitely titled "Anima." The positive force is found in the character of Tatiana, who subtly helps (and judges) Sebastian and urges him towards improvement. Late in the game, Tatiana describes her own function in a way that perfectly matches Jung's idea of the positive Anima. You can see that scene here.

Ultimately, the game tells a deeply redemptive story in a surreal and idiosyncratic way. The game doesn't simply convey Sebastian's story, it attempts to convey his experiences at the level of his own personal perception. The concept allows for that perception to manifest itself with a literalism most stories wouldn't allow. It's a unique kind of character development, as much experienced as explicated.

Comparisons to The Last of Us are simple-minded and wrong. The Last of Us is a harsh, dystopic, Cormac McCarthy inspired take on the zombie genre. It strives to create realistically (and perhaps fatally) flawed characters, and a cruel world of realpolitik.
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The Evil Within 2 is quite different. It is a mythic and romantically surreal story of sacrifice and redemption. It is not subtle, the acting is noirish and heightened. Sebastian is a rugged, masculine hero, and he really is a hero. He is not the trendy anti-hero of much of contemporary media. Sebastian is a good man, one striving to overcome his trauma, and always motivated by deep love for his family.

Survival + Horror
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The Evil Within 2 is a survival horror game. It means both of these words, but it is not always both at the same time. I'll explain.

The game alternates between large, open hub locations, and highly focused linear sections. Much of the early part of the game is spent in several hub locations. You quickly learn to be careful with resources and that every bullet matters. Each encounter is tense because you are aware that resources are scarce, and you can quickly run through them all if you're not judicious in choosing your approach. These portions of the game tend to make the player feel more and more empowered as they come to master their surroundings and learn how to hunt down enemies and scrounge valuable materials.
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The materials you scrounge, and the upgrades you make to your character, will then directly impact how you approach the more linear, horror-focused scenarios. You learn to save up your resources for major enemies, but also to avoid being so conservative that you are unable to pick up those rare bolts or bullets that you may find strewn about. Massaging that balance is a big part of the true pleasure of the game. The open world "survival" oriented portions of the game ready the player for the onslaught that the more linear horror sections will unleash.
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Sebastian's character growth mirrors the growth that the player is undergoing as they master the game and gain confidence. Each upgrade feels truly meaningful, each weapon is genuinely useful. Resources are scarce enough that you will find yourself relying on an unexpected weapon in a pinch, and then falling in love with its unique utility. No wasted inventory space, every item earns its place.

The latter half of the game is much heavier on story, character, and emotion. This feels appropriate, because the player has been carefully taught the ropes and gradually readied themselves for the harrowing pace of the game's final chapters.

This Game Enhances its Predecessor
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The Evil Within 2 neither ignores, nor relies on the first game. It expands and deepens it. The game manages to remain approachable to those who didn't play the first, while also frequently circling around the themes and events of the first game in a way that actually makes the first game deeper and more meaningful. The surprisingly intimate examination of the aftermath of Sebastian's experiences at Beacon lends the first game greater weight and coherence. Surprisingly, the game is also an excellent follow-up to the Kidman DLC for the first game. Her character arc from the DLC is very much taken into account, and is well paid off in The Evil Within 2.

No Dystopian Business Practices
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No loot boxes, no pay to win, no digital deluxe edition, no overpriced pewter statue edition, no "games as a service" features, no season pass. Pre-order customers get like one special item that's completely unnecessary. That is as bad as it gets.

The game is full of crafting, but the economy of things to be found in the world is carefully thought out to keep you on your toes. You don't go online to spend real world money to upgrade your guns. Nope, everything in the game is simply designed to make sense within the context of the game environment. No "social" features, no psychological "gamification" designed to rob your pocketbook. It's a one way relationship between you and the experience.


It's a well made, full featured single-player game that provides a great ride and asks nothing more of the player than the initial buy in. In twenty years, when the PSNs and Xbox Lives are offline and irrelevant... this particular game from 2017 will still work and still make sense.

This Franchise is Ready for its Closeup
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Beautiful art design, gorgeously directed cutscenes, a lush and surprisingly emotional score. This is a beautiful game in many respects. The Evil Within 1 had an incredible sense of gritty mood, but it was fairly criticized for a fair amount of jank and retro roughness. The Evil Within 2 is significantly more polished. It feels much more modern, much more "AAA," and yet it has lost none of its unique personality. I was continually surprised by the high quality of the visual and aural presentation, particularly in the latter half of the game. It all builds to the most explosively satisfying final chapters I've experienced from a game in a long time.
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2017 is an exceptional year for gaming, with many strong titles. But there is nothing else quite like The Evil Within 2. It stands alone, resolutely old-fashioned in its devotion to survival horror ideals, and yet strikingly modern in much of its design and presentation.

It would be a tragedy if a game this well crafted was lost in the shuffle.
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OP
OP
Erevador

Erevador

Member
Oct 25, 2017
629
EDIT: Thank you mods, for moving the thread to the right board!
 
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purseowner

From the mirror universe
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,444
UK
Enough of the impressive write-ups already, ERA. I bought the thing and I'll get to it eventually. :P

(Will read once I have)
 

RyougaSaotome

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,681
Please buy and play The Evil Within 2.

It is a really, really wonderful game, and I'm thrilled that if nothing else, it exists.
 

Psychotron

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,683
Great post. I loved this game and put in 30 hours. After I'm done with Galaxy and Wolfenstein I'm going right back to play it again. Fantastic game that deserves more credit than people haven given it.
 

Courage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,978
NYC
Holy crap, what a write up. I will say comparisons to The Last of Us are moreso about the gameplay and its blend of stealth and action, but I agree the psychological exploration of Sebastian as a character is something else entirely.
 

GameShrink

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,680
This is excellent work and mirrors many of my thoughts going through the game.

It's a shame that the melodrama in Japanese games has a tendency to steal the limelight from the deep and complex elements of their plots.
 

cosmickosm

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,207
Amazing post, thank you for creating it! I agree with a lot of your points with the game. It's definitely a must play title in my eyes.
 

DVCY201

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,166
It's a real shame Bethesda is practically relying on word of mouth to sell it. Ugh, what a stacked year of amazing games.
 

Box

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,629
Lancashire
It's a shame threads don't come with audio, because the audio in this thread would be fucking incredible.
 

black070

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,583
Man oh man, I've got it ready and waiting - just waiting for the Pro patch before I load it up.
 
Oct 27, 2017
30
Nice work on this! I hope this post drives people to experience this great game. I especially love the way you break down the Survival Horror aspect. it's a game that has more in common with TLOU than it does with Resident Evil / Silent Hill. While I encourage people to play the first game, don't let that prevent you from playing TEW2. As the post says, it isn't required.
 

Zeta Ori

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,102
NY
Great write up OP, I finished the game last night and was genuinely surprised at how emotional I got watching the ending.

The lengths they went to properly convey this journey of a person from being lost in self-hatred and guilt from a reality they had no control of to finding peace by accepting the mistakes of his past and embracing his actual nature made the pay off all that more enjoyable for me.

The shot of Lily's legs as they start approaching Sebastian in contrast to his own immediately springs to mind, since they use the same shot later in the game to show his growth as a character, and more specifically the acceptance of his troubled past as a father.
 

Arkanius

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,144
I'll buy the game when the performance is fixed. I was already sold on the first and loved it. Just waiting to jump on the second.
 
OP
OP
Erevador

Erevador

Member
Oct 25, 2017
629
It's a shame threads don't come with audio, because the audio in this thread would be fucking incredible.
One of the surprises from this game is the absolutely gorgeous soundtrack. Some of the orchestral pieces in the latter half of the game are stunningly beautiful. Sound design for the creatures is consistently fantastic as well.

Silent Hill fans will love the soundscape on this thing.
 

CHC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,247
Really impressive write up. I am a huge fan of games that beg deeper examination or analysis, but they are often hard to find - searches for "deep games," "deep narrative games," "games analysis," etc never seem to turn up what I'm after. Metal Gear Solid 2, Nier, Majora's Mask, Inside - those types of narratives.

I didn't know this had that type of aspect - most people have regarded it as an effective horror pastiche / mash-up but not much more. Thanks for taking the time.
 

purseowner

From the mirror universe
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,444
UK
Really impressive write up. I am a huge fan of games that beg deeper examination or analysis, but they are often hard to find - searches for "deep games," "deep narrative games," "games analysis," etc never seem to turn up what I'm after. Metal Gear Solid 2, Nier, Majora's Mask, Inside - those types of narratives.

If you haven't, play the Zero Escape games and House in Fata Morgana.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,253
Greater Vancouver
The story seems... baaaaaaad.

Like for a game that wants to be genuinely disturbing and surreal, anytime someone opens their mouth, I'm just... ugh. I've never gotten the indication that the people making Evil Within were actively reaching for the level of cheese that Resident Evil is better known for.
 

EVAC434

Member
Oct 27, 2017
124
Great thread! I'm very interested but I'm a chicken for horror games. I can handle RE and Dead Space easily, but this seems much more scary somehow.
 

Thiago

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,671
Wow, amazing post!

Finished the game last week on Nightmare, loved it. I really hope there's DLC planned for it.

Silent Hill orphans should really play it too.
 

Xtortion

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,656
United States
Great thread! I'm very interested but I'm a chicken for horror games. I can handle RE and Dead Space easily, but this seems much more scary somehow.

If you can handle Dead Space, TEW2 should be no problem. DS is nonstop jump scares.

Plus in TEW2 tension is often diffused by the open environments. They let you easily run away from enemies to reset the situation, which isn't a commonly viable tactic in these types of games.
 

daniel77733

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,639
Great game. 8.5/10 for me personally. Same rating I gave the first game. Enjoyed BOTH more than REVII.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,252
The Evil Within became one of my favorite games when I figured out what was going on. Superficially it feels like just a mishmash of every survival horror trope and setting just tossed willy nilly together, but there is a strict framework that the game operates on, with actual reasons for a lot of the things that happen based on the logic of the setting.

TEW2 is similarly fascinating, but I just beat chapter 11 last night so I don't know the full context. Really love these games.
 

No Depth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,315
I'm really skeptical about how introspective the actual narrative output lines up in a way the OP would have me believe.

But I did enjoy the first game aside from the design devolving from stealthy AI manipulation in the early stages to setpiece grandeur and a constant barrage of one-hit 'cat and mouse' death sequences with progression. I will buy and play this eventually for sure. Along with Yakuza 0, Horizon, Zelda, Prey, Dishonored 2, AC Origins, and all the other games the internet won't stop reminding me are must-plays.
 

BadWolf

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,148
Fantastic thread and first post, thank you for this.

It really is a special game and I really hope this isn't the last we see of the series.
 

EVAC434

Member
Oct 27, 2017
124
If you can handle Dead Space, TEW2 should be no problem. DS is nonstop jump scares.

Plus in TEW2 tension is often diffused by the open environments. They let you easily run away from enemies to reset the situation, which isn't a commonly viable tactic in these types of games.
Hmm that's interesting! What made Dead Space "doable" for me, was that I felt very empowered. Like you can shoot and dispatch the enemies easily. Is it the same here? I know I can watch some vid, but I try to avoid footage for games on my wishlist
 

Xtortion

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,656
United States
Hmm that's interesting! What made Dead Space "doable" for me, was that I felt very empowered. Like you can shoot and dispatch the enemies easily. Is it the same here? I know I can watch some vid, but I try to avoid footage for games on my wishlist

There are some scripted sequences that require you to run or evade, but for the most part it's an action/stealth third-person shooter where combat is nearly always a viable option.
 

BadWolf

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,148
Hmm that's interesting! What made Dead Space "doable" for me, was that I felt very empowered. Like you can shoot and dispatch the enemies easily. Is it the same here? I know I can watch some vid, but I try to avoid footage for games on my wishlist

Between the combat and stealth you have more than enough tools at your disposal to handle any situation. The combat isn't gimped like in Silent Hill or basic like in RE7, it's very competent in TEW2.
 

EmryX

Member
Oct 30, 2017
110
Great post ! I didn't figure some of the things you wrote, good job.

I'm just a little disapointed that it's not as scary as the first one.
The first one was really a psychologic fear. My "scariest" moment was when the game play with you and was scary as shit in the "hub" where you can save, make ammunition, level up your skills with the nurse. You think you're in a safely place and suddenly all went dark and a wheelchair come at you slowly, i was "OH SHIT I DON'T WANT TO PLAY THIS GAME ANYMORE" xD

Great game btw :)
 

Deleted member 7101

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
291
You sold me on the game OP. Might have to run to Target tomorrow and make this one of my 3 for 2 games.
 
OP
OP
Erevador

Erevador

Member
Oct 25, 2017
629
Is there a notable performance issue?

I purchased the game but haven't started it yet.
I've found the performance flawless on PS4. The console versions run great and look great. Much more polished than the first game.

I think there are some issues on PC. There was a many page PC Performance thread on the old forum...
 

JJShadow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,344
UK/Spain
Excellent write up OP, agree with most of your points. I loved TEW 1 with all its faults, and I loved TEW 2 even more: much more polished and consistent than the first one, and an incredible journey from beginning to end

Glad to see some people are sold on the game after visiting this thread, TEW deserves all the best
 

BadWolf

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,148
I haven't finished TEW1 yet. Should I skip iT?

It's not necessary to play it to enjoy the sequel (though you will get more out of the characters and story if you do) but TEW1 is a great game on its own and worth playing as well. It's one of the most tense games I've ever played.
 
OP
OP
Erevador

Erevador

Member
Oct 25, 2017
629
I haven't finished TEW1 yet. Should I skip iT?
It's not necessary to play it to enjoy the sequel (though you will get more out of the characters and story if you do) but TEW1 is a great game on its own and worth playing as well. It's one of the most tense games I've ever played.
Co-signed.

The first game is a rich experience in its own right, peaking with some truly exceptional mid-game chapters (like 9 and 10). It is is rougher than the sequel technically, but it has a uniquely gritty atmosphere and some truly fantastic Mikami encounter design. Evil Within 1 seems to be an acquired taste for some people, many seem to have a moment where it all clicks and they find themselves in love. Some don't though, and they make some fair points in noting technical mishaps, and a few frustrating difficulty spikes. In the final analysis though, I find the Evil Within 1 to be a top notch survival horror experience, a mashup of the action intensity of RE4 and the gnarly nastiness of Silent Hill 3. It was a game that seduced me more and more as I played it. I also like the Kidman DLC, which develops her character, experiments with a different gameplay style (which I'm glad the main game does not employ), and has one of the best monster designs in the series. The DLC helps clarify a lot of the plot of the game, and is a great primer for The Evil Within 2.

If you don't like the linearity, retro style, or fragmented and disorienting storyline of The Evil Within... then you should feel free to skip right to Evil Within 2. It is much more polished and accessible, while still retaining the unique charm and flavor of the series.
 
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beelzebozo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,073
what you say about sebastian is so true and i hadn't even noticed it. he is portrayed as totally, refreshingly heroic.