Gemüsepizza

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,595
One of many reasons why I'm glad I don't live in the USA. The situation regarding gun laws is really heartbreaking over there. But even though we have more strict laws regarding gun ownership in my country (Germany), I don't think that's enough. It's still relatively easy to get a gun here, it's just a lot of paper work.

Last year a racist murdered 10 people in a terror attack in Hanau, Germany. He had 3 legal weapons in his possession. Consequences? None. It's just mindboggling that it's allowed for private citizens to own semi-automatic pistols with magazins that can hold up to 20 rounds. Those things are basically built to murder as many people as possible. In my opinion, all guns should be banned for private citizens, without exemption.

And if I meet someone here and learn that he owns a gun, I will immediately break off contact with that person, and avoid him as good as possible. I don't trust people who think they need to own a gun, imo there is something wrong with them.
 

bremon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,148
That gun nuts worship the constitution as a concrete perfect document while ignoring the fact that the second amendment is an amendment to it just shows how little hope there is in arguing with these people.

Guns should be restricted. Heavily restricted in fact. "Right to bear arms" should still be qualified by a license, training, and types of weapons able to be owned restricted to hunting rifles. The gun nuts can form their militia with .22s.

The real trickle down economics in the US is the insane amount of money spent on the military, which is endless, which trickles down military grade gear to police forces, which trickles down its hero fetishization to countless people who lust for power and fantasize over these killing machines that they somehow have a "right" to own.
 
Oct 28, 2017
757
The cold blooded return with the second gun to finish them off is super chilling.

My fiance from time to time will say, "We should get a gun." And I emphatically say no every time. She jumps during friggen thunder storms, it would be a disaster of epic proportions. She's mostly concerned because we live in a rural area on a road where every other house, maybe more, has a gun owner in it. But I'm not adding to that. I grew up in a house where my dad had a couple rifles that were for hunting and nothing else. Heck, he hardly ever just took them out for target shooting. Plus, we were informed in no uncertain terms to never touch them when my dad wasn't around. Luckily, I never obtained the gun worship problem that many americans have.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,791
It's more or less how I imagine most road rage incidents going. Don't have feuds with people and treat people the way you would like to be treated because you never know if you're going to be some gun owner's final straw.
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,519
This is the kind of shit I get genuinely depressed about. Because I just genuinely never see America caring more about human beings than money. Capitalism is a disease that is killing us.
 
Oct 28, 2017
757
I saw a video that cut out right before the shooting, but I was struck by how unafraid the woman was, walking toward the armed man and daring him to "do it". I suspect that the woman was desensitized to the idea that guns are killing machines.

The whole thing was disturbing, and I agree that the outcome wouldn't have been possible without guns.
Yeah, their reaction to his first several shots fired is bizarre. How enraged are you over snow shoveling to just stand there and still be confrontational? It just shows how irrational one can act in such a state. And because the other guy was also just as irrational, but had a gun, disaster is the result.
 

Atolm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,927
Disclaimer: I'm not from the US.

It's probably too late to ban guns all together, numbers are in the hundreds of millions of weapons around the country.

It's never too late to pass legislation to keep them controlled. Mental health exams, keep the ammunition owned by each individual under control and limit their capability to acquire more than a certain amount.

Stuff like that. Big goals start from small objectives.
 

brochiller

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,231
Firearms are not uniquely effective for defense. I believe firearms should be regulated to only manual action long barrels for hunters and rural living as is done in a lot of the rest of the world.

I agree with this. Much of the world gets on just fine with having hunting rifles be legal to obtain. The difference in the US is the assault rifles, handguns, and lack of nearly any control when trying to obtain a weapon.
 

Volcane

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
296
What a crazy video. The way they just go up to him when he comes out with the pointing a pistol at them (I assume they just thought he was trying to scare them?) and the way he comes back with a rifle to finish them off and saying they should've kept their mouths shut.

The thought that there are probably thousands of other Americans as crazy as that guy with access to weapons. Glad I live in a country with strict gun control.
 

Lobster Roll

signature-less, now and forever™
Member
Sep 24, 2019
37,168
The guy who killed the couple committed suicide afterwards. He probably realized what he did in a moment of anger and couldn't live with it.
I doubt he had any regrets about what he did. He consciously strolled back and forth when he got the pistol and then the rifle. It was less regret and more realizing that he would spend his entire life in prison and decided that suicide was a better option.
The thought that there are probably thousands of other Americans as crazy as that guy with access to weapons. Glad I live in a country with strict gun control.
I'd bump that number up to millions. 2 million Americans is 0.6% of the population and if you told me that "0.6% of Americans are gun owners that are specifically eager for an opportunity to use them against other people", I'd instantly believe you.
 

metal

Banned
Nov 26, 2020
1,251
Banning all guns would fix the gun violence problem yes, but it isn't happening so stop asking for it. It's not happening under Biden, it won't happen under any democratic leadership in the future. Your wasting time (and mental stress) calling for it.

Better to put that energy towards solutions that are actually within our grasp and are proven to work. We are not the only developed country in the world with a strong gun culture. We are the only one with a gun violence problem though.

Wealth inequality, poverty, systemic racism, poor access to healthcare, etc. These things contribute greatly to the issues of gun violence.

Ironically both parties have the ability to not only grow their influence but to achieve their goals by adopting some of the positions of the opposing party. If democrats dropped gun control from their platform, they would dramatically increase their control of state and federal government. They could then institute sweeping legislation to address the issues I outlined in the last paragraph. This would not only be great for many obvious reasons, but it would have a direct impact on gun violence as well.

I feel that Democrats will start to lose influence over time if they stick to their anti-2A messaging. The majority of new gun owners last year were liberals, women and minorities. This was in direct response to the state sponsored terrorism inflicted on largely peaceful protests after George Floyd in addition to a fascist government that was increasingly growing more authoritarian and radical. Remember how close we were to losing it all just a month ago. Just because Biden won doesn't mean fascism is gone.

Remember that right wing extremists are not the only ones with guns. Over the last year, Liberal Gun Owners and the Socialist Rifle Association subreddits have grown into two of some of the largest gun subs on reddit. Democrats risk losing support, especially with absolutely TERRIBLE gun legislation that Biden supports. For those not aware, Biden wants to add a $200 tax stamp to all gun purchases. This may also apply to magazine purchases though there is some debate on that. This effectly disarms the working class and minorities so that only well off white people, right wing extremists and an increasingly authoritarian police force are the only ones with guns.

There are established ways to decrease gun violence without polarizing people to your platform like "ban all guns" and "disarm the working class and minorities", which won't accomplish anything since they are dead in the water to begin with.

Edit: Forgot to add that there are some direct gun control measures that could help, as most gun owners don't mind sensible gun laws. Things like:
1) More comprehensive background checks.
2) Not allowing private sales to bypass background checks/require transfers for private sales.
3) Require mandatory training for new gun owners (like a standard 8 hour CCW course).
It boggles my mind that some states allow you to buy a gun and carry it without ANY training whatsoever.
 
Last edited:

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,520
What a crazy video. The way they just go up to him when he comes out with the pointing a pistol at them (I assume they just thought he was trying to scare them?) and the way he comes back with a rifle to finish them off and saying they should've kept their mouths shut.

The thought that there are probably thousands of other Americans as crazy as that guy with access to weapons. Glad I live in a country with strict gun control.
Thousands?

I wish. We have millions of stupid assholes that are armed.

It's more or less how I imagine most road rage incidents going. Don't have feuds with people and treat people the way you would like to be treated because you never know if you're going to be some gun owner's final straw.
The rage was crazy on both sides.

Those people did not deserve to die even if they were being really obnoxious and aggressive (and I don't know who if anyone was at fault before the shooting starts). But sadly in the US this is almost a predictable conclusion to something like this. Rage plus guns is going to result in some deaths.
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,424
Disclaimer: I'm not from the US.

It's probably too late to ban guns all together, numbers are in the hundreds of millions of weapons around the country.

It's never too late to pass legislation to keep them controlled. Mental health exams, keep the ammunition owned by each individual under control and limit their capability to acquire more than a certain amount.

Stuff like that. Big goals start from small objectives.

Arguably the most realistic solution.
 

TaterTots

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,001
There 100% needs to be more strict gun laws. I am not going to seek out that video, but stuff like that is why I don't say a damn thing to strangers if I get irked. Where I live, probably half the people are carrying. Fucking snow too...this thread ruined my morning. Gross.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
From a non-US perspective, after Sandyhook and no action was taken, it's when I gave up on thinking you'll get any sort of gun reform in the US.

Maybe in like 30 years when the millennial generation will hold most seats of power there might be another chance?
If dems held 73 seats in the Senate you could definitely see the second amendment being repealed. 50-50 Senate relies on too many Senators that are meh on guns. But I do expect some amount of gun reform even with that margin, just not much, but something is better than nothing.
 

Jokerman

Member
May 16, 2020
7,362
I haven't seen the video, but perhaps they should be shown on the news out there, to show what the outcome can be. Try a different approach to changing attitudes. At least the OP is reconsidering after having seen it.
 

elyetis

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,617
Thinking that gun will be good for self defence always reminds me of the old place where someone was arguing that he wasn't using a seat belt because of some very unlikely scenario where the seat belt would actually cause your death rather than prevent it.
That's simply arguing that you will be a statistical anomaly.
 

_ifigured

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,315
Isn't it cool and highly evolved that in this society it must be assumed that regular looking people are armed with automatic weapons of mass murder and all the psychosis that merely owning one of those entails.
 

GMM

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,572
Sandy Hook was the moment the US should have done something, but it proved that the country valued guns over the lives of it's citizens, it's a lost cause to expect meaningful change at this point.
 

Doomguy Fieri

Member
Nov 3, 2017
5,576
These folks are built different. Stood still for a half dozen point blank gunshots like they were spit balls. I would have been halfway down the street the second man came outside packing.

Gutted to imagine lying in your own blood and seeing your wife and mother of your children be executed by a guy calling her a stupid bitch.

There is no valid reason to let folks own handguns or any semiautomatic weapon. Ban all guns but at least the semis.
 

nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
7,576
I posted the same topic yesterday morning after a friend sent it in a group chat. Like you, I was also waiting for the gag, I thought it was a skit and everyone would get up and do something funny.
 

metal

Banned
Nov 26, 2020
1,251
If dems held 73 seats in the Senate you could definitely see the second amendment being repealed. 50-50 Senate relies on too many Senators that are meh on guns. But I do expect some amount of gun reform even with that margin, just not much, but something is better than nothing.

3/4 of states would have to ratify. In other words, will never happen.
 

SilverX

Member
Jan 21, 2018
14,438
Now I question my views on gun ownership and the laws that protect it. I didn't create the environment that that averages 300+ murders a year, I survived it. I am not sure what you are saying and i dont want to assume. Could you expand please?

I think you need to elaborate because what was so different about these gun victims than the ones you say you have seen in your life and still were pro-gun?
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,558
Take away all of the guns. How normal it is to own guns in the US and the culture surrounding it will never fail to gross me out.

How the fuck can anyone ever feel safe in the US when they might just be one argument away from getting a bullet in their brain?
 

SapientWolf

Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,565
Banning all guns would fix the gun violence problem yes, but it isn't happening so stop asking for it. It's not happening under Biden, it won't happen under any democratic leadership in the future. Your wasting time (and mental stress) calling for it.

Better to put that energy towards solutions that are actually within our grasp and are proven to work. We are not the only developed country in the world with a strong gun culture. We are the only one with a gun violence problem though.

Wealth inequality, poverty, systemic racism, poor access to healthcare, etc. These things contribute greatly to the issues of gun violence.

Ironically both parties have the ability to not only grow their influence but to achieve their goals by adopting some of the positions of the opposing party. If democrats dropped gun control from their platform, they would dramatically increase their control of state and federal government. They could then institute sweeping legislation to address the issues I outlined in the last paragraph. This would not only be great for many obvious reasons, but it would have a direct impact on gun violence as well.

I feel that Democrats will start to lose influence over time if they stick to their anti-2A messaging. The majority of new gun owners last year were liberals, women and minorities. This was in direct response to the state sponsored terrorism inflicted on largely peaceful protests after George Floyd in addition to a fascist government that was increasingly growing more authoritarian and radical. Remember how close we were to losing it all just a month ago. Just because Biden won doesn't mean fascism is gone.

Remember that right wing extremists are not the only ones with guns. Over the last year, Liberal Gun Owners and the Socialist Rifle Association subreddits have grown into two of some of the largest gun subs on reddit. Democrats risk losing support, especially with absolutely TERRIBLE gun legislation that Biden supports. For those not aware, Biden wants to add a $200 tax stamp to all gun purchases. This may also apply to magazine purchases though there is some debate on that. This effectly disarms the working class and minorities so that only well off white people, right wing extremists and an increasingly authoritarian police force are the only ones with guns.

There are established ways to decrease gun violence without polarizing people to your platform like "ban all guns" and "disarm the working class and minorities", which won't accomplish anything since they are dead in the water to begin with.

Edit: Forgot to add that there are some direct gun control measures that could help, as most gun owners don't mind sensible gun laws. Things like:
1) More comprehensive background checks.
2) Not allowing private sales to bypass background checks/require transfers for private sales.
3) Require mandatory training for new gun owners (like a standard 8 hour CCW course).
It boggles my mind that some states allow you to buy a gun and carry it without ANY training whatsoever.
None of those three would have prevented this, IMO. PTSD isn't a disqualifier for legally owning a firearm. The bar for forcibly taking a veteran's firearms is extremely high. Any attempt to lower that bar would be met with extreme pushback since a lot of the people that get deployed come back with some kind of PTSD.

The tax would just push gun sales underground, since no one bothers collecting tax for a private sale. I agree that the root of the issue is cultural. Gun violence in a highly fractured, individualistic society is a self perpetuating problem.
 

UltimateHigh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,578
with few exceptions, guns cause problems, they don't solve them.

and the gun culture that exists in this country is especially toxic..
 
OP
OP
Soapbox Killer
Oct 28, 2017
30,449
I think you need to elaborate because what was so different about these gun victims than the ones you say you have seen in your life and still were pro-gun?

Im a grown man now with children and life experiences? Seeing someone get shot on the block when you're 18 and living certain type of lifestyle aint the same as being a father of 7 and witnessing the senseless executions of people. Would you rather I not have questioned my stance on guns after seeing that? (I know you are just asking me to expound, no smoke intended) You live and you learn. It was never ok but as I stated, it is incumbent upon the Blackman to be protective of his kingdom and all that fall under it.
It might be hard for people to understand where I'm coming from, sorry I cant explain it better.
 

Bigwombat

Banned
Nov 30, 2018
3,416
I would never continue to shout swears and get closer to someone with a gun. They have a long history of fighting and calling someone a fucking queer and threatening to go over to their house and kick their ass is not going to calm the situation down.

You shouldn't kill two people over snow shoveling. The neighbors shouldn't have taunted him when he appeared with a gun.
 

Commedieu

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
15,025
Yeah, their reaction to his first several shots fired is bizarre. How enraged are you over snow shoveling to just stand there and still be confrontational? It just shows how irrational one can act in such a state. And because the other guy was also just as irrational, but had a gun, disaster is the result.

They were in shock. They froze up and could not believe what was happening. I know I did watching it. He fired and missed so many times that also was confusing if you're standing there. It only became real once they got hit. That lady was tough I'll give her that.

I'm sure this was a slow burn up to this moment. It went from likely threating them with a gun, them not backing down, and more insults that induced blind rage. You see how easily it is for this to get out of hand and you end up filling 2 people with 2 guns then killing yourself. I'm 100% sure that was not on the menu that day for anyone involved. The couple threatened to beat him up, but at no point we're they going toward him in any reasonable way to be fearful. Esp after he walked off. You can hear the man say he had a gun. They still stayed there and continued. These people had a level of hate running through their veins.

Neighbors said they've been at it for a while. In a sane world with gun control the guns would have been removed after the police were called. Which never happened.
Something.

Guns are to be used if your life is at risk. Not to settle arguments over snow. Or used as props to intimidate.

So many people get away with it his behavior that it's normal to do so. Wave a gun if someone does something you don't like....

There are too many out in the hands of most that are using them as expressions of emotion. That needs to change. I'll give up my gun when everyone else does though. I just see it as a deadly weapon to possibly prevent a deadly situation in my home. It's inconvienent to get to. But it makes you pause... Could I be in a situation where I get this irrationally angry? My personality type is to deescalate situations. I get a long with most people. And haven't had a fight since gradeschool.
 
Oct 29, 2017
1,289
I haven't figured where I land on a gun law that would be politically viable. I think it should at least be as difficult as getting a driver's license. I think a psych eval too. Because of the system we live in, the cynic in me thinks that a psych eval system could end up being really racist.
I would hope that like some folks above have said- making society better in general would help to curb some of this. But I'm not sure how it would stop a psycho like this. And passing anything is hard... A lot of gun folks often cling to their firearms out of a distrust for the government. Any law that they can imagine being abused, many will fight tooth and nail to stop.

I ran across that video on reddit, shouldn't have watched it. Fucking horrifying.
 

Plywood

Does not approve of this tag
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,427
Saw it early morning yesterday and stood on my mind for the entire day afterwards. Just imagine if they would've gotten into a fist fight instead at least they'd more likely be alive. Just sad.
 

YMB

Member
Nov 6, 2017
602
I would hope that like some folks above have said- making society better in general would help to curb some of this. But I'm not sure how it would stop a psycho like this. And passing anything is hard... A lot of gun folks often cling to their firearms out of a distrust for the government. Any law that they can imagine being abused, many will fight tooth and nail to stop.
Theres always going to be examples where almost no matter what that event was going to take place and no law would have stopped it. As said it seems like some type of physical altercation was going to take place here which may or not have resulted in a death. Its very hard to account for these types of events, but theres definitely more social issues that could help curve peoples aggression towards each other.

IMO guns are just too divisive of an element to really focus heavily on. Most of the right in general are againt gun control, but so are many on the far left and moderates (especially those who fallow marx). Meanwhile you ARE seeing a more leftist shift in younger people when it comes to more social issues. If more could be done in terms of equality and safety nets youd save far more than if you went after the tool which would only further divide society and most likely cause other things to not get done too.
 

Rick44-4

Member
Oct 8, 2020
1,336
I was a bit shocked at that too. It's like every comment section on the planet is toxic.







I am GunEra or I was. I'm just not sure anymore. I am not a reactionary person so I will think, speak with my mens council, reflect and decide.
With all due respect to you, I will never understand being pro gun. If you feel like people need guns to be safe then clearly there is an intrinsic problem in your society because guns do not make people safer.
 

bawjaws

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,722
I am 100% glad that I didn't watch that video, and to be honest I don't really understand anyone choosing to watch it if they already know the content. I don't want to watch people being killed.

I do wish a few of the people describing the contents of the video had used spoiler tags though, because even reading the descriptions is pretty unpleasant.
 

CarpeDeezNutz

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,732
It's not going anywhere, I have held a lot of illegal weapons in my old school days.

Guns float around and pass hands so often.
 

Dan-o

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,223
Why are people sharing the video to others without warning?
This is exactly what I was wondering.
Like, the entire situation as described is horrific (no chance in hell am I watching it!), but seriously what is going on in peoples mind where they watch it and think "yes, I should share this with people AND not warn them that it ends in
execution style murder
."

People are fucking deranged.
 

yyr

Member
Nov 14, 2017
3,763
White Plains, NY
Every day, thousands of Americans learn how to use a tool that is extremely useful, but could be used to kill people, or even the person using it, if they're not careful. But all 50 states have a process to educate, license, and regulate the use of this tool. There are never any complaints about this process.

I'm talking about a car.

Why shouldn't we treat guns the same way? People could get a gun license by completing training, which would include written questions and a live exercise with a licensed instructor. By opening offices all over the country to facilitate this, we'd be creating thousands of jobs for responsible gun enthusiasts. We'd educate more people about how to handle weapons responsibly. By normalizing it, fewer people will glorify it. By making licenses freely available, folks may be less likely to pursue guns illegally. There would be different classes of licenses, but most people would only be licensed for smaller weapons because there's no need for anything else.

I know the NRA would fight this because they fight any changes to how guns are handled, but I don't see how it could be worse than what we have now.
 
OP
OP
Soapbox Killer
Oct 28, 2017
30,449
With all due respect to you, I will never understand being pro gun. If you feel like people need guns to be safe then clearly there is an intrinsic problem in your society because guns do not make people safer.

I'm armed with knowledge above all else. Knowledge of self. I know I am fully aware of my surroundings and know what tools I need to survive. If you are asking if there is an intrinsic problem with the need to carry a gun then I say yes however, for alot of people that is still a very real problem.

It is until its not and its not until it is.


kind of scared to click the video now after reading some of the posts in here


There is no need to click on the video. Its really bad and I dont think we are overplaying the horror of it.
 

night814

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,503
Pennsylvania
Every day, thousands of Americans learn how to use a tool that is extremely useful, but could be used to kill people, or even the person using it, if they're not careful. But all 50 states have a process to educate, license, and regulate the use of this tool. There are never any complaints about this process.

I'm talking about a car.

Why shouldn't we treat guns the same way? People could get a gun license by completing training, which would include written questions and a live exercise with a licensed instructor. By opening offices all over the country to facilitate this, we'd be creating thousands of jobs for responsible gun enthusiasts. We'd educate more people about how to handle weapons responsibly. By normalizing it, fewer people will glorify it. By making licenses freely available, folks may be less likely to pursue guns illegally. There would be different classes of licenses, but most people would only be licensed for smaller weapons because there's no need for anything else.

I know the NRA would fight this because they fight any changes to how guns are handled, but I don't see how it could be worse than what we have now.
I've said it on here a million times feels like, there needs to be mandatory education and check ups like renewing your license and car registration. Like if you wanna have a gun you have to prove you are keeping it safe and have mental health evals for your own safety and everyone around you.
 

Zarshack

Member
May 15, 2018
541
Australia
I think they should take away all the guns and only allow people to have guns for very specific limited purposes. I live in Australia and gun control works. Americans need to get their heads out of their asses about "But muh freedom" when it comes to guns. It seems unlikely that this will happen, and mass shootings and many other gun related deaths including suicides will just continue.