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Tim Sweeney on UE5: "The Nanite and Lumen tech powering it will be fully supported on both PS5 and Xbox Series X and will be awesome on both."
- Thread starter P40L0
- Start date
Lol. Anyone with brains undrstood that i ment consoles/PC with almost similar specs, just like Xbox and PS or PC
I don't know the extent of any deal, but seems obvious that those exist. Maybe no money involved, but some other terms may apply (in the end, however, money is the final goal).Both Sony and mS make deals all the time. That said, each one, myself included, have our own take on it, based on what we know, expectations and preferences.
I haven't said what i think about Sony and epic deal. I can if you wish though, but if quite irrelevant
Not saying it's common sentiment, but it does come up - I mean the idea that it's overengineered, excess. The comparison to Cell is an echo of that - 'more of a thing' nobody asked for and/or was problematic to use.
Xbox started pretty well with the marketing, but they are losing the war. For all the stuff MS has shown, I still haven't seen how powerful the series X will be yet. The fact we are talking about a tech demo when actual games have been shown says more of the failure of MS has shown us.
Seems like that could be avoided by lowering the details far away and on object and textures at high speed and increasing them as the speed goes down. I guess if you would go super fast and instantly stop the io wouldn't keep up, for like a split second which you would miss if you blink. I just think we would have to really search for those artifacts to ever notice them.
But once we go up to 120fps and can drop the blur it's a whole different scenario. And that will happen. Motion clarity means a lot, a such a high framerate it'll be much more difficult to hide any streaming optimization since everything could essentially be seen in detail all the time if you just look at it. But this flying part and the Spider-Man demo shown last year is just PR, at motion blurred 30fps you can likely cut the triangle count in half and drop all texture resolutions in half and still wouldn't notice it. :p
We don't know the amount of RAM in that laptop, but considering that it has RTX2080 in it and is owned by a dev, it probably has a lot.
You don't need ultra fast SSD or sophisticated I/O config if you have a lot of fast ram, 32 or 64gb ddr4 will probably be sufficient for streaming in this case.
Which defeats the whole argument of using this example as a confirmation that very fast SSD is not required in systems with insufficient amount of RAM.
Oh and yes, this demo will absolutely run and perform better on PC with top tier GPU, CPU and lot of RAM. Decent SSD will still be required to put data in memory fast enough though.
I think when we see DF benches of PS5/XSX multiplatform games, after a while there'll be a narrative people flock too, I feel like you'll see faster loading or better performance, but who knows, only time will tell.
In the end it's about utilization. They have an engine to sell that also will run on current gen consoles.
No one is doubting what Sony teams can do with the PS5 but saying that demo was only possible because of the PS5 SSD is silly.
What matter is 3rd party games. Are they going to take advantage of the SSD on the PS5 when they have another console to develop for? I don't think so.
Yeah but, I mean: we have in the same way people stating XSX is only "brute-forcing" power. Why even use that in a discussion in like "but people say". It doesn't help the discussion at all, there are always weird people but that does not mean these are common opinions (at least I hope so!).
Some "Correct" translations quotes and tidbits taken from B3d:
forum.beyond3d.com
-The Epic guy is saying the first scene(Lumen) can run at 40fps on his notebook, not the whole demo.
-If its a 1080P screen, 2 triangle per pixel, make some compression on vertex, than you still can run this demo, no need very high bandwidth and IO like PS5.
-UE4.25 implemented asynchronous/overlapped loading (Because bottleneck was the CPU). They overhauled their shaders to work well with the event-driven loader. This gave them >50% loading speed improvement.
-In the final UE5 scene, compression and careful disk layout avoided the need for high speed SSD. The workload wasn't that high.
-Guy mentioned they can run the demo in the editor at 40fps, not 40+ but did not specify resolution.
-Currently Nanite has some limitations such as only works on static meshes, doesn't support deformation for animation, doesn't support skinned character model, supports opaque material but no mask.
-Lumen costs quite a bit more than Nanite.UE5 could eventually be a hybrid renderer using both Lumen and Raytracing in the future.
Unreal Engine 5, [UE5 Developer Availability 2022-04-05]
Unreal Engine 5 running on PS5
forum.beyond3d.com
-The Epic guy is saying the first scene(Lumen) can run at 40fps on his notebook, not the whole demo.
-If its a 1080P screen, 2 triangle per pixel, make some compression on vertex, than you still can run this demo, no need very high bandwidth and IO like PS5.
-UE4.25 implemented asynchronous/overlapped loading (Because bottleneck was the CPU). They overhauled their shaders to work well with the event-driven loader. This gave them >50% loading speed improvement.
-In the final UE5 scene, compression and careful disk layout avoided the need for high speed SSD. The workload wasn't that high.
-Guy mentioned they can run the demo in the editor at 40fps, not 40+ but did not specify resolution.
-Currently Nanite has some limitations such as only works on static meshes, doesn't support deformation for animation, doesn't support skinned character model, supports opaque material but no mask.
-Lumen costs quite a bit more than Nanite.UE5 could eventually be a hybrid renderer using both Lumen and Raytracing in the future.
MS has shown a lot more than Sony. This is a tech demo that for all intents and purposes would probably look the same on both platforms.
Is this a good move from Sony in terms of marketing? Yes. Does this overcome the marketing advantage that MS has built up over the past months? No.
Also LMAO at losing the war in may. Even in an ideal world E3 is two months out, the console launch is in Q4 and the generation is going to last for at least 6 years. The war hasn't even started yet.
Oh i was not thinking you were doubting the obvious or being accusatory, you were writing rhetorical :)
Did he actually say the raw speed itself (9GB/s) made the demo possible? Or that the research they did with Sony in regards to SSD utilization and engine design made the demo possible?
There's a big difference there.
I heard a rumour that the PS5 was originally going to have two SSDs instead of a GPU.
I was directly replying to someone expressing the sentiment I'm talking about there. Not a 'but people say'. I mean we can ignore, which is fair enough, maybe I should have.
Yeah and I wouldn't say that.
It depends what you mean by 'take advantage of'. A system like Nanite suggests the possibility of scaling certain things along with data throughput, independent of platform specific effort.
This is legit? Still not very clear but cheers.Some "Correct" translations quotes and tidbits taken from B3d:
Unreal Engine 5, [UE5 Developer Availability 2022-04-05]
Unreal Engine 5 running on PS5
-The Epic guy is saying the first scene(Lumen) can run at 40fps on his notebook, not the whole demo.
-If its a 1080P screen, 2 triangle per pixel, make some compression on vertex, than you still can run this demo, no need very high bandwidth and IO like PS5.
-UE4.25 implemented asynchronous/overlapped loading (Because bottleneck was the CPU). They overhauled their shaders to work well with the event-driven loader. This gave them >50% loading speed improvement.
-In the final UE5 scene, compression and careful disk layout avoided the need for high speed SSD. The workload wasn't that high.
-Guy mentioned they can run the demo in the editor at 40fps, not 40+ but did not specify resolution.
-Currently Nanite has some limitations such as only works on static meshes, doesn't support deformation for animation, doesn't support skinned character model, supports opaque material but no mask.
-Lumen costs quite a bit more than Nanite.UE5 could eventually be a hybrid renderer using both Lumen and Raytracing in the future.
on the very first page of this thread there are comments about how the last sequence was only possible because of PS5s super SSD. come on lol
Thanks for the correct translation.Some "Correct" translations quotes and tidbits taken from B3d:
Unreal Engine 5, [UE5 Developer Availability 2022-04-05]
Unreal Engine 5 running on PS5
-The Epic guy is saying the first scene(Lumen) can run at 40fps on his notebook, not the whole demo.
-If its a 1080P screen, 2 triangle per pixel, make some compression on vertex, than you still can run this demo, no need very high bandwidth and IO like PS5.
-UE4.25 implemented asynchronous/overlapped loading (Because bottleneck was the CPU). They overhauled their shaders to work well with the event-driven loader. This gave them >50% loading speed improvement.
-In the final UE5 scene, compression and careful disk layout avoided the need for high speed SSD. The workload wasn't that high.
-Guy mentioned they can run the demo in the editor at 40fps, not 40+ but did not specify resolution.
-Currently Nanite has some limitations such as only works on static meshes, doesn't support deformation for animation, doesn't support skinned character model, supports opaque material but no mask.
-Lumen costs quite a bit more than Nanite.UE5 could eventually be a hybrid renderer using both Lumen and Raytracing in the future.
So many things are unclear on the statements made that makes the comparison kinda useless imo.
To be fair, the Temporal Upsampling And Dynamic Resolution also have pretty amazing results on UE4, so it shouldn't be a large difference between that for AMD and consoles and DLSS 2.0.
It does make me wonder if the demo is using those techniques. Like is this a native 1440p upscale to 4k on PS5, or maybe that's even just 1080p reconstructed to 1440p? It would be strange if they didn't use it at all. Or maybe it can't run in parallel to nanite?
per the translation could be run with any decent SSD with careful data ubication (and duplication ala Spiderman does?) to accelerate random accesses. Besides the scene is not so complex in data as seems, after all they only use a rock texture for all.
Wow
Weird
Who would have guessed that UE5 will work on multiple consoles and be good on them all
Color me surprised
shocked
Weird
Who would have guessed that UE5 will work on multiple consoles and be good on them all
Color me surprised
shocked
Yes.
And there is no war, the PS5 will outsell everything.
Between this demo and MS's poor 'next gen reveal' Inside Xbox I think Sony have done a much better job so far. 'This is what PS5 graphics look like!' seems like it has had much more penetration than the 'and Xbox too!'. And that is only magnified, I think, by MS showing cross-gen games for their 'next-gen reveal'. Microsoft need to show something ridiculous or I think they run the real risk of people thinking PS5 has a big advantage! :)
And you will have dreams like lighting evolved in Sony first parties with their own vertices computing algorithms!.
Truth is unless we get a tech break down we can see games and have no idea what the advantage is or what part of the Sony SSD set up help .
Even if there are exclusive we entering a shift on how things are done and we need break downs to understand what going on .
Playground uses unreal engine? They don't have their own custom Forza tech?
We know the specs, we know there is no significant advantage. The Cerny presentation was far from a good showing.
The SSD crowd should stay silent after we saw that if it is truly the bottleneck next gen.
We saw the XSX, MS has been confident and clear.
This demo is literally the only redeeming quality about Sony's showing.
The Xbox Inside showcase is the only problematic showing from MS.
So how is MS losing a war?
(And yes, PS5 will outsell the Xbox. That's a given. So what war again?)
Playground has two teams, both which will probably be roughly 200 employees each.
One is the racing/Horizon team, the other is the RPG team.
Horizon team uses ForzaTech, RPG team is using Unreal Engine.
Are you being real?
I can't tell anymore if someone is trolling.
I believe they said the PS5 demo was 1440p upscaled to 4K, yeah.
And I think you're right about TAA being pretty damn good in UE4. I have it on in Gears 5 and I don't ever notice it drop even though it tells you it does when I run the benchmark.
Some "Correct" translations quotes and tidbits taken from B3d:
Unreal Engine 5, [UE5 Developer Availability 2022-04-05]
Unreal Engine 5 running on PS5
-The Epic guy is saying the first scene(Lumen) can run at 40fps on his notebook, not the whole demo.
-If its a 1080P screen, 2 triangle per pixel, make some compression on vertex, than you still can run this demo, no need very high bandwidth and IO like PS5.
-UE4.25 implemented asynchronous/overlapped loading (Because bottleneck was the CPU). They overhauled their shaders to work well with the event-driven loader. This gave them >50% loading speed improvement.
-In the final UE5 scene, compression and careful disk layout avoided the need for high speed SSD. The workload wasn't that high.
-Guy mentioned they can run the demo in the editor at 40fps, not 40+ but did not specify resolution.
-Currently Nanite has some limitations such as only works on static meshes, doesn't support deformation for animation, doesn't support skinned character model, supports opaque material but no mask.
-Lumen costs quite a bit more than Nanite.UE5 could eventually be a hybrid renderer using both Lumen and Raytracing in the future.
The 1440p/40fps part was only the cave area?
And they had to use duplication or something similar to make up for the slower IO speed and run it at 1080p as well to achieve PS5 performance?
This is does certainly not sound like running the exact same demo.
Time for update 3 P40L0
Very interesting stuff. Thanks for this. Dictator what do you think about this?Some "Correct" translations quotes and tidbits taken from B3d:
Unreal Engine 5, [UE5 Developer Availability 2022-04-05]
Unreal Engine 5 running on PS5
-The Epic guy is saying the first scene(Lumen) can run at 40fps on his notebook, not the whole demo.
-If its a 1080P screen, 2 triangle per pixel, make some compression on vertex, than you still can run this demo, no need very high bandwidth and IO like PS5.
-UE4.25 implemented asynchronous/overlapped loading (Because bottleneck was the CPU). They overhauled their shaders to work well with the event-driven loader. This gave them >50% loading speed improvement.
-In the final UE5 scene, compression and careful disk layout avoided the need for high speed SSD. The workload wasn't that high.
-Guy mentioned they can run the demo in the editor at 40fps, not 40+ but did not specify resolution.
-Currently Nanite has some limitations such as only works on static meshes, doesn't support deformation for animation, doesn't support skinned character model, supports opaque material but no mask.
-Lumen costs quite a bit more than Nanite.UE5 could eventually be a hybrid renderer using both Lumen and Raytracing in the future.
Some "Correct" translations quotes and tidbits taken from B3d:
Unreal Engine 5, [UE5 Developer Availability 2022-04-05]
Unreal Engine 5 running on PS5
-The Epic guy is saying the first scene(Lumen) can run at 40fps on his notebook, not the whole demo.
-If its a 1080P screen, 2 triangle per pixel, make some compression on vertex, than you still can run this demo, no need very high bandwidth and IO like PS5.
Hmm. 2 triangles per pixel, vs 10 per pixel suggested on the PS5 demo?
If that's not a mistranslation, or whatever, that does suggest IO is a pretty strong component in the triangles per pixel target you're going for. It tells us a bit more also about how Nanite might work.
Same problem than Insomniac with Spiderman. Without Kraken and some hardware decompression maybe 300 to 400 GB install for PC version.
For the flying sequence they did lile Insomniac and all open world organize data for sequential read and duplicate data. Slow SSD are equal to HDD now.
It's a wee bit unclear exactly what he's talking about there.
But I mean if you know the camera's path, laying out data for a perfect prefetch would be possible. How usable that would be in a go-anywhere game context is debatable though.
Seeing a lot of the comments here, I'm not so sure now that showing that presentation on a consumer event was the best choice. Tech demos are supposed to sell the engine to developers, but it doesn't mean players will see a game using everything that was in it. The unnecessary hype is only leading to future threads about devs lying, downgrade, etc. That worries me a lot.
Hmmm. It seems like a static, opaque environments use nanite best, like cities and the desert in the demo. I wonder if later in the gen the tech will be able to work with deformable materials and character models. (btw it says it doesnt support skinned character models, but what if the game uses robots or heavily armored characters?)Some "Correct" translations quotes and tidbits taken from B3d:
Unreal Engine 5, [UE5 Developer Availability 2022-04-05]
Unreal Engine 5 running on PS5
-The Epic guy is saying the first scene(Lumen) can run at 40fps on his notebook, not the whole demo.
-If its a 1080P screen, 2 triangle per pixel, make some compression on vertex, than you still can run this demo, no need very high bandwidth and IO like PS5.
-UE4.25 implemented asynchronous/overlapped loading (Because bottleneck was the CPU). They overhauled their shaders to work well with the event-driven loader. This gave them >50% loading speed improvement.
-In the final UE5 scene, compression and careful disk layout avoided the need for high speed SSD. The workload wasn't that high.
-Guy mentioned they can run the demo in the editor at 40fps, not 40+ but did not specify resolution.
-Currently Nanite has some limitations such as only works on static meshes, doesn't support deformation for animation, doesn't support skinned character model, supports opaque material but no mask.
-Lumen costs quite a bit more than Nanite.UE5 could eventually be a hybrid renderer using both Lumen and Raytracing in the future.
About the "latest translation" guy:
Link
Does not seem that more reliable to me...
I would trust more the first reddit one, which was also confirmed to be correct here by another native mandarin user (tutomos), which has also seen and listened the whole interview.
No need for another Update or spin.
Thanks for the tidbitsSome "Correct" translations quotes and tidbits taken from B3d:
Unreal Engine 5, [UE5 Developer Availability 2022-04-05]
Unreal Engine 5 running on PS5
-The Epic guy is saying the first scene(Lumen) can run at 40fps on his notebook, not the whole demo.
-If its a 1080P screen, 2 triangle per pixel, make some compression on vertex, than you still can run this demo, no need very high bandwidth and IO like PS5.
-UE4.25 implemented asynchronous/overlapped loading (Because bottleneck was the CPU). They overhauled their shaders to work well with the event-driven loader. This gave them >50% loading speed improvement.
-In the final UE5 scene, compression and careful disk layout avoided the need for high speed SSD. The workload wasn't that high.
-Guy mentioned they can run the demo in the editor at 40fps, not 40+ but did not specify resolution.
-Currently Nanite has some limitations such as only works on static meshes, doesn't support deformation for animation, doesn't support skinned character model, supports opaque material but no mask.
-Lumen costs quite a bit more than Nanite.UE5 could eventually be a hybrid renderer using both Lumen and Raytracing in the future.
You got that wrong, because they didn't have to use more duplicated assets. That's the flying section:
With lowering the resolution you don't need as much bandwith, but the compression and careful disk layout was used on every device.
Yes, that is worrisome, you will have three or four (if they add RT too) rendering methods at once to add to a running time of already 33 ms frame time in a tech demo. Far from elegant and a debugging nightmare.
This makes PS5 even more impressive. The UE5 Tech demo requires quite a beefy IO network, and if that's just the sample, imagine what software designed with a 9 gb /s baseline will look like!
I mean that sound terrible when it comes to game design and also exactly what Cerny talked about how their SSD would make game development much easier.
If you have to spend time carefully placing things that directly makes games more time consuming, expensive to make and everything else that follows with increased development.
Sorry, but i will be more confident of years old known B3D users all the day. But whatever.
you're always going to be hitting these types of solutions when people are pushing for the best possible visuals....always....