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CthulhuSars

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,906
that would mean bethesda giving up on the playstation userbase, not sure if they're gonna do it

They wont this gen and I doubt they will in the future unless things are more skewed out the gate. There really is no defense for what Sony is doing other then they own the lions share of the player market via PS4 sales and they make the rules for it.
 

Deleted member 224

Oct 25, 2017
5,629
I am clearly wanting more information and I never expressed nor implied that it would sway my view that Sony still has the blame here. Which has been my stance throughout all of the various cross-play topics.
What more information do you need? Everyone involved in the issue has clearly said what the holdup is. Do you not believe Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, Epic, BGS, etc. when they talk about this?
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,205
Sony doesn't seem to mind cross-play with PC. Cross-play with Xbox is off the table though and they will glady eat the negative publicity.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,496
North Carolina
User Banned (1 Day): Ignoring mod warning and continuing to push baseless narratives
What more information do you need? Everyone involved in the issue has clearly said what the holdup is. Do you not believe Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, Epic, BGS, etc. when they talk about this?
While I do believe ultimately Sony is the main issue, I do think there are other technical issues that certainly complicate the matter. Especially when we are talking about F76 with the team being new in the area of mp, let alone cross-play itself.

That is the information I am curious about. I certainly wouldn't give Sony a break on this even if there are more technical hurdles at play.
 

Deleted member 224

Oct 25, 2017
5,629
While I do believe ultimately Sony is the main issue, I do think there are other technical issues that certainly complicate the matter. Especially when we are talking about F76 with the team being new in the area of mp, let alone cross-play itself.

That is the information I am curious about. I certainly wouldn't give Sony a break on this even if there are more technical hurdles at play.
There aren't more technical hurdles at play though. That's just your own assumptions. Everyone with insight into the matter has already told us what the issue is. For some reason, you just don't want to believe them.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,036
While I do believe ultimately Sony is the main issue, I do think there are other technical issues that certainly complicate the matter. Especially when we are talking about F76 with the team being new in the area of mp, let alone cross-play itself.

That is the information I am curious about. I certainly wouldn't give Sony a break on this even if there are more technical hurdles at play.
Ps4 and XB1 would just be a bigger player pool, I doubt it's be too complicated to allow. Can maybe see them having problems with a invite system as they usually require a separate in-game account (like a EPIC account in Fortnite, which you use to invite people) and I'm not sure how hard something like that is to set up, but again I doubt it's super complex.

Hell, I'd imagine partial cross-play is more complex to set-up than full cross-play between everyone.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,496
North Carolina
There aren't more technical hurdles at play though. That's just your own assumptions. Everyone with insight into the matter has already told us what the issue is. For some reason, you just don't want to believe them.
Because they are not made public, they don't exist. If this is how you look at it then so bid. I see it differently. Doesn't mean I am not aligned with you and the millions(?) of others who hold Sony accountable for the cross-play issues.
 

kickz

Member
Nov 3, 2017
11,395
Keep mounting the pressure, idiots at Sony need to wake up and do the right thing.

#ForThePlayersSometimes
 

Deleted member 1120

user requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
1,511
The whole "Sony wants people to buy a PS4 instead of cross play" doesn't that work the other way too.
Say someone has friends who only play on Xbox, they have a PS4 and don't purchase an Xbox to play with them. So Sony isn't losing a sale in that situation, Microsoft is.
 

Deleted member 3190

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Oct 25, 2017
1,214
Because they are not made public, they don't exist. If this is how you look at it then so bid. I see it differently. Doesn't mean I am not aligned with you and the millions(?) of others who hold Sony accountable for the cross-play issues.
There's no mention of them anywhere, no evidence of the issues. What makes you so enlightened to claim that these issues exist?
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,496
North Carolina
Ps4 and XB1 would just be a bigger player pool, I doubt it's be too complicated to allow. Can maybe see them having problems with a invite system as they usually require a separate in-game account (like a EPIC account in Fortnite, which you use to invite people) and I'm not sure how hard something like that is to set up, but again I doubt it's super complex.

Hell, I'd imagine partial cross-play is more complex to set-up than full cross-play between everyone.
I am not saying it is super complicated. It could easily be a simple one line of code issue. I don't know. Which is why I expressed wanting more information is all.
 

The Argus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,291
So what will be the straw that breaks the camel's back?

Lower sales numbers?
Consumer feedback like this topic?
Biggest fish like R* and RDR2 putting them on blast?

Whatever works for me. I just want to play with friends regardless of what controller or keyboard they hold and devs agree.
 

Deleted member 224

Oct 25, 2017
5,629
Because they are not made public, they don't exist. If this is how you look at it then so bid. I see it differently. Doesn't mean I am not aligned with you and the millions(?) of others who hold Sony accountable for the cross-play issues.
What you want is for someone to give you a reason to absolve Sony of some blame. You want the developer to say there's some herculean technical hurdle to overcome preventing console cross play when there isn't, we saw console cross play working in Fortnite before Sony shut it down.

You can't even bring up what these technical issues on Sonys end would be, you just think they exist. Hell, what Todd Howard is saying here is more information. It's another developer telling us what the problem is. You don't want "more information" though, you want the theories you've come up with in your head confirmed by someone in a position of authority.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,036
So what will be the straw that breaks the camel's back?

Lower sales numbers?
Consumer feedback like this topic?
Biggest fish like R* and RDR2 putting them on blast?

Whatever works for me. I just want to play with friends regardless of what controller or keyboard they hold and devs agree.
I can see Rockstar making them bend, but I doubt they'll actually say anything on the matter.

I think Minecraft on PS5 will be when they fold, as MS will just straight up say "no, unless you allow cross-play" I doubt anyone else will.
 

BloodHound

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,033
So what will be the straw that breaks the camel's back?

Lower sales numbers?
Consumer feedback like this topic?
Biggest fish like R* and RDR2 putting them on blast?

Whatever works for me. I just want to play with friends regardless of what controller or keyboard they hold and devs agree.
Money. Speak with your wallets.
 

Deleted member 135

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
11,682
I don't see why crossplay is necessary or needed for any game. I'd rather the ecosystems stay separated.
 

Deleted member 224

Oct 25, 2017
5,629
I don't see why crossplay is necessary or needed for any game. I'd rather the ecosystems stay separated.
Cross play and cross progression go hand in hand. Cross progression is (imo) neccissary if players are expected/pressures to heavily invest in microtransactions for certain games. Because of the Fortnite issue, I won't spend another penny on any cosmetic/microtransaction items on a Sony platform until the issue is resolved.
 

Hate

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,730
What benefits are there to keeping them separate?
Previously, everybody hates playing with pc. Higher fps, keyboard and mouse, higher resolution(longer draw distance) and cheaters.

I dunno with consoles.

I'm pretty meh on crossplay due to discrepancy in hardware and innate advantages over one another. I don't want it on twitch based and pvp games. On coop though, I like it.
 

Deleted member 3190

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
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Previously, everybody hates playing with pc. Higher fps, keyboard and mouse, higher resolution(longer draw distance) and cheaters.

I dunno with consoles.

I'm pretty meh on crossplay due to discrepancy in hardware and innate advantages over one another. I don't want it on twitch based and pvp games. On coop though, I like it.
There's already hardware discrepancies within the same ecosystems though.
 
Oct 27, 2017
325
I am not accusing you of speculating, lol. I'm clearly doing the same thing if it wasn't obvious enough already.
Sorry for the length between replies, I'm on baby duty atm.

There is a big difference between your speculation and mine.

Exactly nothing. You have literally no idea how difficult it would be for them to implement such a system. This is also the fallout teams first foray into multiplayer period so this entire thing is going to be a big learning experience as it is. I can only imagine that having to address separate ecosystems in their own bubbles and divide server ecosystems for them would be even more of a pain.
Yup, Todd/Bathesda can't blame Sony for the lack of cross-play between Xbox and PC when other (smaller) companies are doing it just fine.

I was speculating under the guise of... speculation. "I can only imagine..." And I come off as being in support of the message that Todd is trying to support by being yet another dev to throw Sony's name out there.

You where speculating under the guise of fact. "Todd/Bathesda Can't blame..." And you come off as trying to be dismissive and damage controlling.

We both don't know exactly what the reason is or even what their plans may be regarding crossplay. What we do know though, is that dev after dev have stated that it has been Sony that is holding things back with regards to universal crossplay and that it's something that they want and would be beneficial to them. Frankly, that, and the fact that I want it and it would be good for consumers as well, is all I need to know to be supportive of any dev that speaks out in favor of it and calls out whoever is responsible for impeding it.
 
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Deleted member 19218

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
4,323
What benefits are there to keeping them separate?

Well I play Fortnite on the Switch and I leave crossplay turned off because other platforms are playing at higher frame rates and I believe that gives them an edge. In addition to that, I imagine they probably get better draw distance and general performance. I worry someone on the Xbox will see me much earlier than I see them.
 

paulc

Alt account.
Member
Dec 14, 2017
97
I think of cross-play this way - if I didn't have to buy an Xbox to play with my friends I would have more money to spend in the PlayStation environment. It's not only the cost of the console I could spend there, but also the cost of any games, subscriptions and accessories. All money Sony is losing out on.
 

Deleted member 3190

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Oct 25, 2017
1,214
Which is why cross play with pc isn't an issue this gen.
I was responding to this comment from you.
I'm pretty meh on crossplay due to discrepancy in hardware and innate advantages over one another. I don't want it on twitch based and pvp games. On coop though, I like it.
The only option to avoid hardware discrepancies would be to only play multiplayer on Switch for games that don't support crossplay. Multiple hardware configurations exist in the ps and Xbox ecosystems and obviously with PC gaming.
 

Deleted member 3190

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Well I play Fortnite on the Switch and I leave crossplay turned off because other platforms are playing at higher frame rates and I believe that gives them an edge. In addition to that, I imagine they probably get better draw distance and general performance. I worry someone on the Xbox will see me much earlier than I see them.
I guess so. But isn't having the option the best of both worlds?
 
Oct 27, 2017
325
Well I play Fortnite on the Switch and I leave crossplay turned off because other platforms are playing at higher frame rates and I believe that gives them an edge. In addition to that, I imagine they probably get better draw distance and general performance. I worry someone on the Xbox will see me much earlier than I see them.

You just defeated your own argument... by saying that you can turn it off if you don't want it so you are not affected by it when it is a thing. No negatives.

For others, when crossplay isn't a thing they have no option to play with their friends on other platforms so there are only negatives to not having it.
 

Deleted member 135

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Oct 25, 2017
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If every multiplatform game is crossplay what's the point of having multiple platforms? Crossplay reduces competition and variety in the market.
 

Deleted member 32018

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Nov 8, 2017
7,628
Well I play Fortnite on the Switch and I leave crossplay turned off because other platforms are playing at higher frame rates and I believe that gives them an edge. In addition to that, I imagine they probably get better draw distance and general performance. I worry someone on the Xbox will see me much earlier than I see them.

The only disadvantage is the 30fps compared to 60fps. Player draw distances are the same across all platforms, including the Switch.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2018-fortnite-switch-performance-analysis

and all the major geometry, trees and players render in properly on Switch - all the way into the background, ensuring a level playing field across platforms.
 

Aztechnology

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
14,148
If they are serious about it then I would assume yes.

Should also have crossplay with pc and ps4

They haven't said, I'd assume it's something they are considering, but not committing to yet probably due to performance differences.
I think a opt-in system would be the best solution regarding this game.

Ok, thanks guys. I hope to hear good news on that front too. I'm perfectly fine with them doing opt-in. I just want to be able to play with buddies.
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,399
It's nice seeing big names on big projects willing to spell out where these limitations are coming from, especially since it's affecting so many real games at this point. It's not a theoretical issue, and it's clearly a sore point for devs.
 

TheSantry

Member
Dec 25, 2017
297
User warned: Console war rhetoric
This is purely business. As long as Sony continues to absolutely slaughter Microsoft in terms of install base, they will not budge on cross-play with Live. Sony is totally fine with cross-play with PC. It's simply more beneficial to Microsoft at the moment if PSN and Live allow cross-play. Playing online w/ your friends is a selling point for PS as long as PS remains market leader. It's an anti-consumer practice, but it makes perfect business sense.

I'd love to play with Live players on PSN but I don't see it happening ever. Even if MS becomes market leader next gen, MS would then block cross-play to keep the online selling point. I know this because MS did this with the 360. It's not surprising that Bethesda is quick to call Sony out since they have a history of favoring MS (co-marketing on every major release and previous exclusive content) and ignoring issues w/ their PS games (Skyrim PS3 neglect). It's funny to see people blaming Sony (or any single company for that matter) for a core flaw with the politics of online console gaming. Keep fighting the good fight console warriors.
 

Deleted member 19218

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Oct 27, 2017
4,323
I guess so. But isn't having the option the best of both worlds?

Yeah, that's why it's nice to have the option to turn it off and on. If the playerbase ever dries up on the Switch then I can still play with others at least.

You just defeated your own argument... by saying that you can turn it off if you don't want it so you are not affected by it when it is a thing. No negatives.

For others, when crossplay isn't a thing they have no option to play with their friends on other platforms so there are only negatives to not having it.

What kind of rhetoric is this? Defeated my argument? I just explained why I leave it off and there's nothing more to it than that.

The only disadvantage is the 30fps compared to 60fps. Player draw distances are the same across all platforms, including the Switch.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2018-fortnite-switch-performance-analysis

That's good to hear :)
 
Oct 27, 2017
325
Yeah, that's why it's nice to have the option to turn it off and on. If the playerbase ever dries up on the Switch then I can still play with others at least.



What kind of rhetoric is this? Defeated my argument? I just explained why I leave it off and there's nothing more to it than that.

I'm sorry, was this not the post you where replying to?
What benefits are there to keeping them separate?
 

Deleted member 896

User Requested Account Deletion
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Oct 25, 2017
2,353
If every multiplatform game is crossplay what's the point of having multiple platforms? Crossplay reduces competition and variety in the market.

Am I to understand that you currently believe the point of owning multiple machines now is so that I can by multiple copies of the same game to play with different people?
 

Hate

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,730
I was responding to this comment from you.

The only option to avoid hardware discrepancies would be to only play multiplayer on Switch for games that don't support crossplay. Multiple hardware configurations exist in the ps and Xbox ecosystems and obviously with PC gaming.
Right. It's also one of the reasons I play mp less and prefer coop nowadays. It's hard to get an even playing field. I'm sure I'll open up to it though. I just need to find the right game. I love Fallout so maybe I'm thinking this might be it if they do implement crossplay.
 

Judge

Vault-Tec Seal of Approval
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,149
Are we going to make a thread each time a dev/pub says Sony doesn't allow cross-play?

Edit:

Just to be clear, I'm not defending Sony. It's shitty that they don't allow cross-play, they're being arrogant because they're leading this gen and it will definitely bite them in the ass (it's already started).
Yes, we are...is this offensive or something? New news, new thread. Don't like it? Pressure Sony to change their stance and there will be no need for new topics like this ;)
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
I don't see why crossplay is necessary or needed for any game. I'd rather the ecosystems stay separated.

Why would you want to play with less people?
If every multiplatform game is crossplay what's the point of having multiple platforms? Crossplay reduces competition and variety in the market.

They're multiplatform games, not exclusives. Competition still exists, plus consoles still compete in all other areas.
 

khamakazee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,937
If every multiplatform game is crossplay what's the point of having multiple platforms? Crossplay reduces competition and variety in the market.

That doesn't really make a heck of a lot of sense. Was this even brought up before when Sony was offering it with the pc or is this now your concern if consoles are brought into the mix. You're playing with people so I don't get what the big deal is if that person is Xbox green and the other is Nintendo red. The gameplay itself doesn't change for you. Sony still has their great exclusives, why would it bother you that a game that is already on all platforms now has more people in it?

It's funny to see people blaming Sony (or any single company for that matter) for a core flaw with the politics of online console gaming. Keep fighting the good fight console warriors.

So let me get this straight, pointing the finger at Sony makes them console warriors when in this case it's Todd Howard pointing the finger who is more than likely a pc gamer? Your thoughts are not rational, other developers have pointed the finger at them too.
 
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