Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,916
And they would be right. But despite all the bad decisions SE made with their western branch, actually selling them off was a sensible one.

Agreed. For whatever reason they couldn't get anything better out of them so selling was the better option. I still think they sold them too cheaply though.
 

zma1013

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,697
I feel like perhaps the issue is spending way, way too much on Tomb Raider. Do they have to be giant epic Uncharted clones or can they cut a bunch of the cutscenes and setpieces to get a better profit margin?
 

Chocobo Blade

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,891
What do the 53m paid mobile downloads entail? I know Lara Croft GO but it doesn't seem nearly that popular and the runner game is f2p. Is there anything else?
 

Necromanti

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,584
I can see why games developed in Japan would be more "competitive" in terms of budgets if Glassdoor is any indication (and if it's accurate). Someone in the same role will probably earn half as much (or less) in Tokyo compared to someone at Crystal Dynamics, depending on the role. Don't know if that's the case with Eidos as well.
 

Griffith

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,585
What a failure to meet expectations.

I'm being facetious. Square Enix had no idea how to handle the studio or the IP.
 

Det

Member
Jul 30, 2020
13,228
I think some people need to realize that these companies don't care about small profits, especially if it takes a lot of time and resources to get there. none of these franchises or games "lost" money. they just did not do well enough to satisfy the higher ups. especially if the sequels do worse than what came before it, they view that as diminishing returns when they are looking for growth.

It's opportunity cost. I don't know why it needs reexplaining now that we've seen the financial statements and margins from both studios, along with SE as a whole. SE sells the studios for $300M, eliminates their operating costs, and gets it elsewhere that has - according to their analysis - a higher ROI.
 

crimsonECHIDNA

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,773
Gatorland
Honestly, even disregarding the debate of whether Square should or should not have thrown in the towel, it's absolutely baffling that they just sold the IP for peanuts relatively speaking.
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,116
What do the 53m paid mobile downloads entail? I know Lara Croft GO but it doesn't seem nearly that popular and the runner game is f2p. Is there anything else?
This is a very good question.

There's Tomb Raider and the Guardian of the Light - that was on Android and iOS (and Blackberry Playbook), but it released later on those platforms so probably didn't clock up too many sales. It sold poorly enough that the next game in that short sub-series (Temple of Osiris) didn't appear on mobile.

Lara Croft GO is somewhere in the 1M to 5M range on Android - probably it sold better on iOS but even a total of 20M seems like a stretch. It also hasn't appeared on Apple Arcade or Google Play Pass, so there's no subscriber downloads that might boost the total.

So unless Lara Croft GO really did do huge numbers on iOS (like, many tens of millions kind of huge) then the bulk of the number could easily come from the ancient pre-smartphone Java Tomb Raider games. Some of them potentially sold pretty well. At least a few of them would probably have been pre-installed by mobile OEMs so maybe those are counted as paid "downloads".
 

NDA-Man

Member
Mar 23, 2020
3,304
This is a very good question.

There's Tomb Raider and the Guardian of the Light - that was on Android and iOS (and Blackberry Playbook), but it released later on those platforms so probably didn't clock up too many sales. It sold poorly enough that the next game in that short sub-series (Temple of Osiris) didn't appear on mobile.

Lara Croft GO is somewhere in the 1M to 5M range on Android - probably it sold better on iOS but even a total of 20M seems like a stretch. It also hasn't appeared on Apple Arcade or Google Play Pass, so there's no subscriber downloads that might boost the total.

So unless Lara Croft GO really did do huge numbers on iOS (like, many tens of millions kind of huge) then the bulk of the number could easily come from the ancient pre-smartphone Java Tomb Raider games. Some of them potentially sold pretty well. At least a few of them would probably have been pre-installed by mobile OEMs so maybe those are counted as paid "downloads".

I think at least some of the original trilogy was on Android and iOS, at least per Gamefaqs.
 

Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,407
Selling almost 40M copies but barely breaking even. That's the definition of poor studio management, yikes.
 

Eoin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,116
I think at least some of the original trilogy was on Android and iOS, at least per Gamefaqs.
Oh, yes, forgot about them. They had comically inadequate touchscreen controls and I think I remember Eurogamer publishing a video showing themselves trying, and failing, to complete the first level of Tomb Raider II due to how awful the controls were.

There's probably a few million additional sales out of them.
 

NDA-Man

Member
Mar 23, 2020
3,304
38 million for 3 games and SE considers this to be a failure lol

Each one cost a hundred million or more to make, not all of then were sold at full price, and I think it definitely was diminishing returns, with 2013 having a disproportionate share of the sales (not that the other two were slouches).
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
44,273
Each one cost a hundred million or more to make, not all of then were sold at full price, and I think it definitely was diminishing returns, with 2013 having a disproportionate share of the sales (not that the other two were slouches).

Yeah, I got every Tomb Raider game at Steam for next to nothing
 

Chocobo Blade

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,891
This is a very good question.

There's Tomb Raider and the Guardian of the Light - that was on Android and iOS (and Blackberry Playbook), but it released later on those platforms so probably didn't clock up too many sales. It sold poorly enough that the next game in that short sub-series (Temple of Osiris) didn't appear on mobile.

Lara Croft GO is somewhere in the 1M to 5M range on Android - probably it sold better on iOS but even a total of 20M seems like a stretch. It also hasn't appeared on Apple Arcade or Google Play Pass, so there's no subscriber downloads that might boost the total.

So unless Lara Croft GO really did do huge numbers on iOS (like, many tens of millions kind of huge) then the bulk of the number could easily come from the ancient pre-smartphone Java Tomb Raider games. Some of them potentially sold pretty well. At least a few of them would probably have been pre-installed by mobile OEMs so maybe those are counted as paid "downloads".
Oh, I completely forgot about those java games and I actually played them. Hard to imagine them doing big numbers, especially back then. But it's hard to actually estimate and there's no data to deny it, so they very well might have counted for a lot.

Also I remembered there was also a port of TR1 for N-Gage. Though I don't think that one lit the world on fire either lol.
 

Silav101

Member
Oct 26, 2017
732
I feel like perhaps the issue is spending way, way too much on Tomb Raider. Do they have to be giant epic Uncharted clones or can they cut a bunch of the cutscenes and setpieces to get a better profit margin?
We're likely going to find out, as there is a low chance that Embracer Group is going to pony up a AAA budget.
 

Killer

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,353
Now I understand SQE getting rid of them . 3% profit margin is laughably low.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,350
We're likely going to find out, as there is a low chance that Embracer Group is going to pony up a AAA budget.

this is probably a good thing. they can go back to the series roots with platforming and puzzles. create that sense of isolation again. I know rise and shadow tried to do a bit of that here and there, but I want some actual challenging platforming and exploration. imagine what you could do with old school OG tomb raider level design combined with modern tech.
 

Silav101

Member
Oct 26, 2017
732
this is probably a good thing. they can go back to the series roots with platforming and puzzles. create that sense of isolation again. I know rise and shadow tried to do a bit of that here and there, but I want some actual challenging platforming and exploration. imagine what you could do with old school OG tomb raider level design combined with modern tech.
That's assuming they even get to make any games before Embracer Group sells them off to someone else again, or is bought up oof