Menchi

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,176
UK
Pretty niche question… but is it actually possible to Confederate with the Changeling as Kairos in Immortal Empires?

I managed to "find" it but even destroying the cults there left it invisible still. I managed to interact with it by joining a war against the faction, and have since gotten high diplomacy (No military alliance, as that's bad apparently?) and they are lowest strength rank, whilst I'm 4th of 90.

Even so, they're stuck at 36. I even forced them into war with the strongest faction, and it didn't budge at all. Tried doing the same with no treaties between us, and that was even lower.

Anyone ever had any luck with this? If so, any advice would be great

I really just want to play as Kairos but would have been awesome to have access to the legendary lord morphing.
 
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karnage10

karnage10

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,591
Portugal
Pretty niche question… but is it actually possible to Confederate with the Changeling as Kairos in Immortal Empires?

I managed to "find" it but even destroying the cults there left it invisible still. I managed to interact with it by joining a war against the faction, and have since gotten high diplomacy (No military alliance, as that's bad apparently?) and they are lowest strength rank, whilst I'm 4th of 90.

Even so, they're stuck at 36. I even forced them into war with the strongest faction, and it didn't budge at all. Tried doing the same with no treaties between us, and that was even lower.

Anyone ever had any luck with this? If so, any advice would be great

I really just want to play as Kairos but would have been awesome to have access to the legendary lord morphing.
I haven't played Karios since changeling so i can't comment on that.
I can do however offer my experience in confederations:
  • Alliances decrease the chance to confederate (the AI counts your power as part of their power)
  • You can use threaten to conf if attitude is less than -5
  • Distance plays a role. AI will usually never confederate if you are too far
  • Ai usually needs to lose their armies and a settlement to go into positive
  • Player most ne much stronger than AI
Hope that helps a bit. I can imagine why conf Changeling hard as his armies are usually invisible.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,501
Pretty niche question… but is it actually possible to Confederate with the Changeling as Kairos in Immortal Empires?

I managed to "find" it but even destroying the cults there left it invisible still. I managed to interact with it by joining a war against the faction, and have since gotten high diplomacy (No military alliance, as that's bad apparently?) and they are lowest strength rank, whilst I'm 4th of 90.

Even so, they're stuck at 36. I even forced them into war with the strongest faction, and it didn't budge at all. Tried doing the same with no treaties between us, and that was even lower.

Anyone ever had any luck with this? If so, any advice would be great

I really just want to play as Kairos but would have been awesome to have access to the legendary lord morphing.
I don't have the DLC so I consulted the Total War discord and yeah, it's possible either way.

On top of what karnage said, dragging them into wars could help make them feel threatened which increases their willingness to confed. Though since Changeling has no settlements (and tbh, usually no armies) I don't know how much that would, er, change things. He's really weird diplomatically and from the few times I've allied with him (as other factions) he does nothing, accomplishes nothing, and is just sort of quantum locked the entire time.


In general diplomatic confederation is really erratic and hard to predict. If the faction is in a huge war, just lost its entire military force, and is great friends with you is theoretically the best time to try it, but they need to be actively threatened for that to happen, usually. It can fluctuate--sometimes a lot--turn to turn so the best bet is to just watch it every turn like a hawk.
 

oddjobs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,208
What? I thought he looked awesome!

eh, IDK. Khorne (and Slaanesh and Ogre Kingdoms) are currently at a very shitty state so I would have hoped for a legendary lord for one of them, or alternatively for some other faction

plus I don't see the three headed dog making the play experience any different for a Khorne campaign. maybe that's just me.

dog itself looked good, yes.
 

Odinsmana

Member
Mar 13, 2019
2,508
eh, IDK. Khorne (and Slaanesh and Ogre Kingdoms) are currently at a very shitty state so I would have hoped for a legendary lord for one of them, or alternatively for some other faction

plus I don't see the three headed dog making the play experience any different for a Khorne campaign. maybe that's just me.

dog itself looked good, yes.
I mean they have never done an LL for a skulls event before and we just got a DLC with four LLs less than a month ago. I don`t think that was ever happening.

Slaanesh and then Khorne are most likely going to be the two next DLCs. I don`t know. I feel like being dissapointed that it`s not an LL instead of being happy for what it is feels like a very pessimistic mindset.
 

Odinsmana

Member
Mar 13, 2019
2,508
well it's not like there's not a reason behind that with this game lol
But hoping for a type of free content they have never done and then getting dissapointed when it does not happen feels a bit irrational and like you are just setting yourself up for dissapointment. I feel like there is a difference between legitimate criticism and scepticism and that. Like I feel like a free LH is undeniably a positive thing.
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,380
My only source of disappointment was that I was hoping we'd see SoC hit 50% off since Skulls usually has the deepest discounts of the year on Warhammer stuff. Alas, it is still like $18 at the lowest.
 

Saint Scylla

Member
Dec 30, 2019
16
I'm pretty happy with this FLC. I like how LH can spice up a campaign, and a Khorne LH is another clue that we'll get a Khorne LL (Arbaal?) in a future DLC, probably after the Slaanesh DLC that was heavily hinted in the roadmap.
 

Doukou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,559
Don't really mind a free LH, but kind of wish it was for another faction whose options didn't consist only of Skarbrand and Valkia. Especially since Valkia really need some love

Im also disappointed cause I wanted Karanak as a LL(I know it was unlikely) so I could do a Doggo campaign, they also seemed the most unique out of the Khorne characters. I'll have to settle with a Doggo(please let them buff Fleshhounds to a ridiculous degree) army
 

Doukou

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,559
I mean they have never done an LL for a skulls event before and we just got a DLC with four LLs less than a month ago. I don`t think that was ever happening.

Slaanesh and then Khorne are most likely going to be the two next DLCs. I don`t know. I feel like being dissapointed that it`s not an LL instead of being happy for what it is feels like a very pessimistic mindset.
Idk about that Maneater was datamined and Monkey King has been hinted at forever that I imagine that Cathay vs Ogres will be one of the two next dlcs.
 

Odinsmana

Member
Mar 13, 2019
2,508
Idk about that Maneater was datamined and Monkey King has been hinted at forever that I imagine that Cathay vs Ogres will be one of the two next dlcs.
We have datamined stuff years before they were relased before and as you say they have been hinting at the monkey king since before Warhammer 3 was released. I don`t see any reason to believe we will get a second Catahy DLC before Slaanesh or Khorne with the information we currently have.
 

oracledragon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,298
Karanak looks cool, but I was letting my next campaign be decided by the Skulls giveaway... so I guess its Khorne! Not my favorite ;) But I did not try them since the Champions of Chaos update which made Nurgle and Tzeentch way more fun, and I finished a complete campaign with both of them. So, maybe it is the same for Khorne!

The big surprise for me was the discount on Shadows of Change; to be transparent I A) Already own it, B) Pre-ordered it, and C) Actually enjoyed it and felt I got my moneys worth at launch, hence -- I'm part of the problem ;) But I'm surprised that given its hugely negative public perception (seemingly even post-update) it is still more expensive than the Chaos Dwarfs expansion! Which was one of the biggest knocks against it at launch, the fact it was more expensive than a much better DLC. This feels like even if it was $1 less than Chaos Dwarfs, they should have made that happen for the optics alone.

And, not that the original DLC is expensive normally, but with the discount the value in just the last DLCs (The Silence & The Fury, The Twisted & The Twilight, The Warden & The Paunch) is bonkers; If all you have is Warhammer 3, for $18 CDN you get six new factions to play in Immortal Empires, with arguably the best Legendary Lords for each of those factions (I could debate on The Sisters, but I would think that Taurox, Oxyotl, Thrott, Eltharion, and Grom are all pretty top shelf LL's campaign wise). This is only $1 more than buying Warhammer 2, and the only race you miss out on is Dark Elves, but you get almost all of the additional DLC units on top of it.

Anyway, I was hoping to come home from work and fire up a new campaign, but it seems Karanak isn't released yet only "coming soon", alas. I guess that lets me set up Forza Horizon 5 and unlock my beloved 1980 Lotus Esprit Turbo as the new series just started up, so, silver lining and all that :)

PS - the best free Skulls giveaway of all time remains the Black Orc Big Boss! Maybe just because it was the first one I claimed, but, it has a special place for me.
 

Odinsmana

Member
Mar 13, 2019
2,508
Don't really mind a free LH, but kind of wish it was for another faction whose options didn't consist only of Skarbrand and Valkia. Especially since Valkia really need some love

Im also disappointed cause I wanted Karanak as a LL(I know it was unlikely) so I could do a Doggo campaign, they also seemed the most unique out of the Khorne characters. I'll have to settle with a Doggo(please let them buff Fleshhounds to a ridiculous degree) army
I assume Daniel (daemons of chaos) and the neutral Warrior of Chaos factions will get him as well. I am fairly sure they got both Aekold and the Blue Scribes before. So he will be aviable to a fair amount of factions.
 

oracledragon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,298
SoC still €20. It's better than 25, but maybe I'll wait out for a bigger sale?
Honestly, imo it will be a long time (if ever) for it to even get another $5 discount, look how long Ogres took to hit 50% off. At some point, if you are interested in the dlc, is it worth waiting another year for $5 more savings? IMO if the dlc looks good to you, and you can afford the purchase price, go for it.
 

Anno

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,067
Columbus, Ohio
After the changes I think SoC is worth just as much as ToD. They're both good expansions if you like the races they touch, same as ever. And I like Tzeentch a lot.
 
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karnage10

karnage10

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Oct 27, 2017
5,591
Portugal
After the changes I think SoC is worth just as much as ToD. They're both good expansions if you like the races they touch, same as ever. And I like Tzeentch a lot.
I agree with this.
With the update the amount of payed content SoC is very similar to ToD.
The only difference is mostly on the free mechanics.

Imo SoC is worth full price atm. Seytang, mother ostankya, incarnate of beasts, coca trice, mutalith, frost wyrm, etc are a lot of fun
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,380
I'm still not 100% sold but I might grab SoC for $17 this weekend. Both Kislev and Cathay are factions I have not played much at all so new stuff can help convince me to do that, and although I'm not super excited about Changeling's campaign mechanics I do love Tzeench in general.
 
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karnage10

karnage10

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Oct 27, 2017
5,591
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I'm still not 100% sold but I might grab SoC for $17 this weekend. Both Kislev and Cathay are factions I have not played much at all so new stuff can help convince me to do that, and although I'm not super excited about Changeling's campaign mechanics I do love Tzeench in general.
You won't regret it. The new units, lord and LL are all fun to use.

The biggest problem is really the lack of a "free" rework.

Kislev- civil war is boring and doesn't feel like a civil war. Boris has no special mechanics. Kislev unique mechanics is basically having a governor and being able to have events to recruit witches.


Cathay- all 3LL feel similarly. Their unique mechanic is choosing their buffs and a single caravan. CD is better at being Cathay...


Tzeentch - cults feel useless, many Tzeentch actions are not as fun as intended . Tech tree is in a weird place. Kairos is the only "normal" LL.


What bothers me the most is that in battle all 3 factions are excellent and are super unique! I hope CA tackle the campaign eventually


They make me remember my fab faction...
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,380
I am also in a bit of a skaven mood. Been a long time since i blew up the world as ikit or made a disgusting monster army with thrott
 

Olorin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,116
Skrolk will always be my go-to Mouse.

He cant see 😥
But Papa Nurgle shows him the way 😭
 

Olorin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,116
he does need an updated mechanic yea. But that's the endearing part of Skrolk -he's the ultimate underrated undermouse. (not rly I think that's Tretch but still).
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,380
so yeah dwarves are pretty sick. I ended up grabbing SoC today but haven't started a new campaign cuz im having too much fun with malakai.
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,997
Every time I see this thread get bumped I want to try this game again. I played this with a friend co-op last year without ever having played any Total War before. I started with Nurgle because Papa Nurlge is the bestest. I made it through the first chaso gate (I think that's what it was?) and got absolutely wrecked. Realized that I had been stumbling thruogh and getting carried by my teammate, but we never really went back after that and played more. Re-installing now to dip my toes back in.
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,380
Changeling campaign is weird. Definitely will take some getting used to.
I feel like he should be a pseudo-horde (vamp coast/malaki style) given his unorthodox settlement mechanic
 

Odinsmana

Member
Mar 13, 2019
2,508
Every time I see this thread get bumped I want to try this game again. I played this with a friend co-op last year without ever having played any Total War before. I started with Nurgle because Papa Nurlge is the bestest. I made it through the first chaso gate (I think that's what it was?) and got absolutely wrecked. Realized that I had been stumbling thruogh and getting carried by my teammate, but we never really went back after that and played more. Re-installing now to dip my toes back in.
Did you play the prologue tutorial campaign? It's a really good primer if you are unfamiliar with the game. Otherwise Nurgle is also a pretty hard faction to start with on top of them being a weird faction in how their buildings and recruitment works.

If you only own the base game of Warhammer 3 I would maybe recommend one of the two Cathay factions to start with. They have a relatively safe start and have armies that use a bit of everything.
 
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karnage10

karnage10

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,591
Portugal
Every time I see this thread get bumped I want to try this game again. I played this with a friend co-op last year without ever having played any Total War before. I started with Nurgle because Papa Nurlge is the bestest. I made it through the first chaso gate (I think that's what it was?) and got absolutely wrecked. Realized that I had been stumbling thruogh and getting carried by my teammate, but we never really went back after that and played more. Re-installing now to dip my toes back in.
Now you have access to the Immortal empires which is the sandbox mode that previously required all 3 games.

Imo to learn easier start with Cathay chose whomever you like of the 2 LL. Put the difficulty on easy if you are used to strategy games or very easy if this is your first forey tot he genre. Alongside this give penalty to the AI.
When learning these changes will allow you to have the time to dabble in the several systems and not be as overwhelmed.

Feel free to ask here about what you find hard.
If you live in Europe I wouldn't mind showing you the ropes if you play at the weekends
 

Snormy

I'll think about it
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,190
Morizora's Forest
Every time I see this thread get bumped I want to try this game again. I played this with a friend co-op last year without ever having played any Total War before. I started with Nurgle because Papa Nurlge is the bestest. I made it through the first chaso gate (I think that's what it was?) and got absolutely wrecked. Realized that I had been stumbling thruogh and getting carried by my teammate, but we never really went back after that and played more. Re-installing now to dip my toes back in.

Try the Immortal Empires campaign. It features a bigger map and doesn't bother you with portal nonsense.

Cathay is a decent start as suggested but I also recommend Tyrion of the high elves. Surrounded by allies, relative safety in your donut. Strong varied armies, strong legendary lord and access to a large variety of magic types. Don't have to deal with the Cathay wall defense nonsense.

I would recommend easy campaign but normal battle difficulty (with stat buffs to your units). Caution for easy battle difficulty as it can be a trap because it messes with auto-resolve and expectations vs results. This video explains it well how easy battle difficulty can deceive you into believing you're performing badly when you try to fight battles that the game says are decisive victories.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9ZAbYI_gOk

I think easy difficulty is best for breezing through a campaign a bit using autoresolve to quickly finish battles. This is mostly to check out campaign/faction mechanics and see how things work but I wouldn't necessarily recommend playing it when you want to try and learn the actual battle side of things. At the end of the day, as long as you're having fun it doesn't matter too much but just be aware of the easy battle difficulty imbalance of auto vs manual fights.
 

oracledragon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,298
Every time I see this thread get bumped I want to try this game again. I played this with a friend co-op last year without ever having played any Total War before. I started with Nurgle because Papa Nurlge is the bestest. I made it through the first chaso gate (I think that's what it was?) and got absolutely wrecked. Realized that I had been stumbling thruogh and getting carried by my teammate, but we never really went back after that and played more. Re-installing now to dip my toes back in.

When I can get my friends to play co op, it's really the battles they like. So a neat feature that is easy to miss is the "gift units" button. It will appear right below your unit porthole on the left. So it was great fun if I gave them a few units for my battles (and vice versa). Usually units that need a lot of micro, like wizards or calvary. That way we could co op ever battle together vs just eventually meeting up on a campaign map and *maybe* reinforcing eachother on a battle with our own armies.
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,997
Thank you, everyone. I appreciate all the feedback. I've got it re-installing and hope to dive back in here in the next day or two. I'll definitely be popping back in as I go through.
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,380
I have about 250 hours played and I've recently been realizing that I don't think I am very good at this game lol. I am occasionally able to eke out a better result than what the auto-resolve predicts, but the opposite happens just as often if not more. I also really like Tzeentch thematically but feel like I don't understand how to play him. Been messing with Changeling recently, who we all know is one of the easiest campaigns due to how cults work, but I still am sloppy as hell in battles. I feel like I need to re-learn basic shit about effective formations and using ranged units that I apparently forgot from WH2.
 

FatPuppy

Member
Jun 18, 2018
544
I'm over 750 hours across the trilogy and have long since accepted that I'm terrible at this game, but I enjoy it anyways.

I just play single player though. Multiplayer would probably be soul crushing defeats all day every day.
 

Odinsmana

Member
Mar 13, 2019
2,508
I have about 250 hours played and I've recently been realizing that I don't think I am very good at this game lol. I am occasionally able to eke out a better result than what the auto-resolve predicts, but the opposite happens just as often if not more. I also really like Tzeentch thematically but feel like I don't understand how to play him. Been messing with Changeling recently, who we all know is one of the easiest campaigns due to how cults work, but I still am sloppy as hell in battles. I feel like I need to re-learn basic shit about effective formations and using ranged units that I apparently forgot from WH2.
What battle difficulty are you playing on? Lower difficulties give you bonuses to auto resolve results to the point were you will never get as good results playing them manually no matter how good you are. Even normal can sometimes be generous with your auto resolve, so playing on lower battle difficulties like easy can mess with your mind a bit about your own skill level.

Otherwise if you want any tips or have any questions about anything just ask! I am by no means a master, but I do have 1500 hours invested in the triology at this point, so I do feel like I have a pretty good grasp of the mechanichs.
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,380
Playin mama stanky for the first time. I know people dislike the whole thematic take on Kislev that GW is forcing CA to implement, but man if she aint fun. Having a full army of super buffed spiders and other beasties with a few jacked up spellcasters is the good shit.
 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,551
Playin mama stanky for the first time. I know people dislike the whole thematic take on Kislev that GW is forcing CA to implement, but man if she aint fun. Having a full army of super buffed spiders and other beasties with a few jacked up spellcasters is the good shit.
OOTL - what's this take that CW is being forced to run with?
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,380
OOTL - what's this take that CW is being forced to run with?

I'm not personally someone who followed Warhammer Fantasy prior to TW, but my understanding is this: A big part of the the identity of Kislev prior to TWW3 was the cultural mesh/divide of Gospodar (the fancier folk like ice witches) and Ungol (the more "of the land" types who are almost like non-chaos aligned norsca). When TWW3 launched and that wasn't really a factor at all, either lore-wise or mechanics wise, some folks were bummed and were hoping that maybe the first kislev DLC would factor in a bit. It didn't, and then during the SoC 2.0 apology tour, a CA blog explicitly mentioned that was not a direction they (read: GW) were interested in pursuing. I'm sure someone else could explain it better, but I think that's at least fairly accurate. People also took issue with Ostankya being the only hag lord, because playing a campaign as her with your other armies also potentially being mostly beast/creepy guy focused yet being lead by a fancy armored soldier man or ice witch also feels pretty odd.
 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,551
I'm not personally someone who followed Warhammer Fantasy prior to TW, but my understanding is this: A big part of the the identity of Kislev prior to TWW3 was the cultural mesh/divide of Gospodar (the fancier folk like ice witches) and Ungol (the more "of the land" types who are almost like non-chaos aligned norsca). When TWW3 launched and that wasn't really a factor at all, either lore-wise or mechanics wise, some folks were bummed and were hoping that maybe the first kislev DLC would factor in a bit. It didn't, and then during the SoC 2.0 apology tour, a CA blog explicitly mentioned that was not a direction they (read: GW) were interested in pursuing. I'm sure someone else could explain it better, but I think that's at least fairly accurate. People also took issue with Ostankya being the only hag lord, because playing a campaign as her with your other armies also potentially being mostly beast/creepy guy focused yet being lead by a fancy armored soldier man or ice witch also feels pretty odd.
Ahhh, right, I'm remembering that now. Yeah, I see why they went that way, but it is a bit disappointing. Probably because it won't tie well into whatever plans they have for The Old World, yeah? Bit of a shame.
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,380
That's a pretty safe bet, yeah. GW clearly has an idea in mind of where they want to take Kislev, and it's different from what people got used to/expect from previous output. that being said I don't think it's necessarily worse, but I can get why people would be bummed that a thing they expected and presumably liked wasn't going to get the representation they wanted.

I definitely agree that the rationale for Ostankya being the only Hag mother lord is wack. If we can have hag witch heroes, we can have hag witch lords. It's dumb.
 

Odinsmana

Member
Mar 13, 2019
2,508
That's a pretty safe bet, yeah. GW clearly has an idea in mind of where they want to take Kislev, and it's different from what people got used to/expect from previous output. that being said I don't think it's necessarily worse, but I can get why people would be bummed that a thing they expected and presumably liked wasn't going to get the representation they wanted.

I definitely agree that the rationale for Ostankya being the only Hag mother lord is wack. If we can have hag witch heroes, we can have hag witch lords. It's dumb.
Yeah. I can respect GW wanting the game to reflect their updated lore, but GW also seem like they can be really petty at times. For as fluid as Warhammer lore is it they seem like they can get pretty hands on with changing small details about stuff in the Total War games (like Tzaangors not having beaks for example.)
 

oracledragon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,298
I just watched some guy on Twitch (ElichTV) doing a battle with Gelt and 10 casters, and spamming spells everywhere, and the power reserve was crazy, it just never ran out! I don't know what kind of hero build would allow this to happen, but I feel compelled to try this...
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,380
Ok so here's a question for people better at the game than me: What is the best way to use vanguard units? Just moving your front line up to get to the enemy front line faster is obviously not the main benefit of it, but I've been very hit or miss when it comes to placing my vanguard units in a way that makes a noticeable difference, especially vanguard units that can't effectively hide.
 

Anno

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,067
Columbus, Ohio
I think vanguard is a lot better on some maps than others. If I can hide a unit of dogs or something in a pack of trees by the back line and use it to murder archers/arty after the infantry engages then it's very valuable. Sometimes it isn't really unless you also have snipe or something paired with it.

That said the vanguard rush is absolutely a good use of the ability if you have it on enough of your army.
 

Odinsmana

Member
Mar 13, 2019
2,508
Ok so here's a question for people better at the game than me: What is the best way to use vanguard units? Just moving your front line up to get to the enemy front line faster is obviously not the main benefit of it, but I've been very hit or miss when it comes to placing my vanguard units in a way that makes a noticeable difference, especially vanguard units that can't effectively hide.
Like Anno says it can be really good if you have the ability to deploy behind the enemies to either shut down their ranged or set up units for charging into the back of the enemy frontline. Even if you can`t deploy them completly behind the enemies it can be usefull to get units into flanking positions while your main army moves up. You do always have to be carefull, so your vanguard units don`t get isolated and wiped out on their own though.

Even if you are defending vanguard can be usefull even though it`s obviously more niche. Skrimish units like Marauder horsemen can start closer to the enemeis and harass them while they close the gap or you if there are some pockets of trees along the sides of the map you can hide some units there that can attack the enemies in the back once they engage you frontline or pick off isolated enemy units.
 
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Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,501
Ok so here's a question for people better at the game than me: What is the best way to use vanguard units? Just moving your front line up to get to the enemy front line faster is obviously not the main benefit of it, but I've been very hit or miss when it comes to placing my vanguard units in a way that makes a noticeable difference, especially vanguard units that can't effectively hide.
It really depends on how many of your units have vanguard deployment. If it's a skirmisher or flanker or two, have them hide or just out of range and move to flank the enemy when your main host engages. If it's the majority of your army (or you're Vlad von Carstein) you can just move all them up and rush the enemy; a lot of factions aren't prepared for this so even if you're outnumbered it can be powerful without being reckless.

They don't necessary need stalk, they just need to stay out of the enemy's reach. And even if a ranged unit or something decides to attack them that may end up preferable; they can also just work as distractions to protect more important units.

Most vanguard units are great at fighting weaker/slower enemies so you want to keep them in positions where they can do that. It varies a lot though so you may need to mix your tactics up regularly.
 

oracledragon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,298
Ok so here's a question for people better at the game than me: What is the best way to use vanguard units? Just moving your front line up to get to the enemy front line faster is obviously not the main benefit of it, but I've been very hit or miss when it comes to placing my vanguard units in a way that makes a noticeable difference, especially vanguard units that can't effectively hide.
If I have only 1-2 fast vanguard units (dogs, cav), they can still be useful. If I start them in vanguard position, I can use them to draw away at least a few of the enemy units, and just delay them by keeping them chasing my units around. Thus way when the enemy front line arrives, at least they are not at full strength and you have a few minutes until the other units catch up.

Even a few are ideal for throwing against enemy artiley to shut them down for a few moments as you make your charge with your main force. They don't have to win, just stop the artillery from firing (and hopefully survive to run away).