Toy Story 4 SPOILER thread
- Thread starter DonMigs85
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Haven't seen it but don't care about spoilers.
Why was Bonnie a turd? I see a lot of people here and other places talking smack about Bonnie. Was it just that she ignored Woody? Or something worse?
Can Woody still talk to the other toys with his voice box out? He just can't do the "There's a snake in my boots" stuff when you pull his string?
Why was Bonnie a turd? I see a lot of people here and other places talking smack about Bonnie. Was it just that she ignored Woody? Or something worse?
Can Woody still talk to the other toys with his voice box out? He just can't do the "There's a snake in my boots" stuff when you pull his string?
People are crying because Woody was leaving Buzz and his friends, not just Bonnie. Or, really, not really Bonnie. And Woody finally "grew" out of his need to serve a kid. It was a huge emotional moment for the character, but it wasn't because of Bonnie.
It's a really nice play on what parent's feel once their children grow up and need to find a new reason to live, and at the same time, Woody is also a kid who finally decides to set out and do things for himself or find a new purpose.
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She ignored him and generally didn't notice him being missing despite Andy pushing that she should take good care of him. I'm in the group that thinks it's perfectly acceptable 5-year-old behavior, espeially when she was so enamored with her new toy.
Correct. It's more about him sacrificing that part of his appeal as a toy than not being able to speak.
I have no issue with Bonnie. She's a kindergartener. She doesn't do anything evil or bad. She is just a kid. I honestly don't see a reason to criticize her.
Woody can still talk. It's as you said.
I'd call it perfectly normal 5 year old behavior and while its normal that she'd do that Id say it sours the ending of TS3 to know that Bonnie will simply ignore woody soon after he left him in her care.
To her credit, between the Toons and TV Specials Bonnie did give Woody at least a few more months of use. And the dialogue in TS4 implies it's only been a streak that has lasted a few days out of the current week in terms of Woody not being used.
I have a very specific philosophy when it comes to this stuff that I don't think sequels and prequels ever affect the original work. So personally, I won't think much about it the next time I watch TS3, except to have a laugh about it or something.
And second, I think it's a great subversion because it makes total sense. Kids all the time will be super excited for something and push for something relentlessly but the moment they get it they're like "meh" in no time at all. It doesn't matter how great a kid someone is or how much Andy pleads her to take care of Woody, sometimes they'll just reject it arbitrarily after a while.
So, I hated this.
The entire point of the incinerator sequence in Toy Story 3 was that nothing else mattered so long as the toys were together. This film proposes that Woody would abandon his family/friends solely to pawn off toys to carnival goers (a job that Bo could have totally done on her own) and to adventure with Bo, someone who was never nearly as important in the prior films as this film would like you to believe.
The entire ending is contingent on Woody betraying the relationships built in the past three films. It's a story that didn't need to be told and in order to tell it, they counteracted everything that came before in order to make it happen.
The entire point of the incinerator sequence in Toy Story 3 was that nothing else mattered so long as the toys were together. This film proposes that Woody would abandon his family/friends solely to pawn off toys to carnival goers (a job that Bo could have totally done on her own) and to adventure with Bo, someone who was never nearly as important in the prior films as this film would like you to believe.
The entire ending is contingent on Woody betraying the relationships built in the past three films. It's a story that didn't need to be told and in order to tell it, they counteracted everything that came before in order to make it happen.
Woody was all but ready to leave even in 2 until he realized he needed to be there for Andy. Heck, in 3 he implies the others should consider moving on while he goes off to college with Andy (and this happens post incinerator). So there were seeds planted in prior films. Couple that with him losing his purpose in TS4 then having a second chance to leave with Bo (which he doesn't have to regret this time as Andy is out of his life at this point) and it makes a hell of a lot more sense than you're giving it credit for.
Plus saving toys has been Woody's schtick since TS2 so this was a role built for him.
What's the point of this subersion? It really adds nothing to the story only makes Bonnie a tad less likable nothing else. The whole point of not letting other films affect the original work feels kind of weird in a multi movie series. Its almost like watching a tv show but only counting the episodes you like as canon.
The whole only a few days..... If they only hadn't done that whole bit with the whole ripping the star from woody. That gesture was a clear demotion and it signified that Bonnie no longer cares much for woody. Now if woody had to leave Jessie had to get the star that's a given but bonnie picking him up just to take the star clearly signifies that she's done with him.
Again, this is still after at least half a year minimum of use so it's not as abrupt as you were implying. And Bonnie consistently changes roles of her toys, to include removing accessories on multiple occasions (as seen in the Shorts), so that hardly means that much.
But it's not the bond with Bonnie being betrayed as there clearly wasn't one, it was him deciding that Buzz and the gang, his rock and family for well 15 years (less in the case of Buzz, granted) means nothing when offered the chance to be with Bo and the Carny Crew. In Toy Story 2, it wasn't just the bond to Andy that made him stay, it was the bond with the other toys. In Toy Story 3, the whole point was that they could live and entertain another kid happily so long as they had each other. This film totally undermines that connection with the toys entirely and for what? Bo and the chance to pair up some kids with cheap carnival toys?
Woody's loyalty was always tested but it was that loyalty that always made him stick with his family (the toys.) Here, a few months of lessened play time, a dramatically changed and unfamiliar Bo Peep and the prospect of playing matchmaker is enough to completely negate that loyalty and decade+ long bond. All the while, the rest of the toys are relegated to voiceless background decor and Buzz's character is similarly betrayed by making him an utter moron again solely for the sake of having another subplot to pad out the run time.
Every character is drastically altered solely for the sake of constructing this plot and telling a story that really did not need telling. I had worried before release that this film would be ultimately useless but after seeing it, it's more outright destructive to the narrative of the first three films than a perfunctory addition/epilogue.
I guess if you consider it a critisism or not depends on whether or not you think the shorts should be required viewing before this film then.
The point is it feels like Bonnie's a real person and not just a writer's way of making you go "awwww" when she takes great care of Woody just like Andy asked her to.
I feel like if you downplay the significance of the events at the beginning of the film then that makes the movie a LOT worse than just "Bonnie was kind of unlikable." It makes it look like Woody's overreacting and the whole thing is a contrivance.
this whole idea that a 4 year old is incapable of understanding emotional value is starting to bug me Honestly. You guys must not think very highly of small children -.-
I don't think woody overreacted to not being played with at all. If anything he took it really well which is good because we don't want him to relapse to before his arc in TS1.
Woody leaving in the backpack is more of him not being used to not being the leader of the toys than anything else.
It did bug me how they do the whole Woody is not the leader the other doll is the leader but the moment woody leaves everyone looks at buzz for leadership....including the other doll.
Literally no one said that. They just did say criticizing a fictional four year old for not upholding your emotional standards is also ridiculous.
Loved it, only complaint is some of the original characters getting sidelined. It was a short movie, I feel there could have been an extra 10 minutes or so dedicated to giving those guys something to do. Anyway, loved where Woody's character ended up, enjoyed all the new toys, thought it was a great "villain" and visually it was just stunning.
Updated rankings
2>1>4>3
Updated rankings
2>1>4>3
Kinda expected ducky and bunny to be corny but Key and Peele were hilarious.
I shed a tear at the end when buzz said "she'll be ok" and he was talking about Bonnie oof
But honestly with the IM and chats in toy story 3 they just need to find a smartphone to talk to buzz and everyone else
I shed a tear at the end when buzz said "she'll be ok" and he was talking about Bonnie oof
But honestly with the IM and chats in toy story 3 they just need to find a smartphone to talk to buzz and everyone else
Movie, Blew me away. The marketing team is genius at making the trailers not spoil these movies so everyone gets confused and thinks its going to be bad. These guys know what they are doing.
I dont know how Pixar still blows me away with its CGI and I was at a drive in near the back! I found Paul Newman harder to understand but just as good I suppose.
I liked Forky a lot.
Oh, and if anyone hasn't caught on yet, these movies are not going to end anytime soon.
I dont know how Pixar still blows me away with its CGI and I was at a drive in near the back! I found Paul Newman harder to understand but just as good I suppose.
I liked Forky a lot.
Oh, and if anyone hasn't caught on yet, these movies are not going to end anytime soon.
Yeah, I don't know what to think about this film really. All the standards in Rex, Slinky, Jessie, Bullseye and even Buzz hardly get any time on screen at all. Then there's Potato Head, where I know the voice actor who played him died (Don Rickles, I think?) but I can't really recall him saying much of anything. Slinky Dog's original voice actor died but he still gets a voice to speak in the films (though this one as I said before is hardly anything).
Then to have Woody just leave all the others he has stuck by since who knows when at the end? Separated from Buzz even! I don't know where the story is meant to go from here. Is that it, or is Woody going to be reunited with Buzz, Jessie, Bullseye and so on again? After Toy Story 3 they had those little mini films which showed some of what the gang were up to after being picked up by Bonnie.
I was also trying to figure out if Bo Peep had her lower body removed. She was porcelain originally and in this film she seems more flexible than the past films.
Oh and Ken didn't even get a look in! Barbie was hardly in it as well. I'm not sure the aliens were even in it. I wonder what eventually happened to RC too. Maybe it shows it in Toy Story 3 and I'm just forgetting.
Then to have Woody just leave all the others he has stuck by since who knows when at the end? Separated from Buzz even! I don't know where the story is meant to go from here. Is that it, or is Woody going to be reunited with Buzz, Jessie, Bullseye and so on again? After Toy Story 3 they had those little mini films which showed some of what the gang were up to after being picked up by Bonnie.
I was also trying to figure out if Bo Peep had her lower body removed. She was porcelain originally and in this film she seems more flexible than the past films.
Oh and Ken didn't even get a look in! Barbie was hardly in it as well. I'm not sure the aliens were even in it. I wonder what eventually happened to RC too. Maybe it shows it in Toy Story 3 and I'm just forgetting.
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Ken and Barbie are enjoying life as leaders in Sunnyside. Their story is done. They would add nothing to Toy Story 4.
RC is probably broken/sold/destroyed. But at least we get to see him again in 4 in the first scene. He never got that much screentime since the first film.
Speaking of RC, did anyone else expect they were going to show him getting lost in the opening flashback? They were obviously going to show where Bo Peep went before TS3, it seemed like they were going to do the same thing with RC.
Also, Pixar loves to open films sometimes with a giant emotional smack to the audience sometimes, was actually pretty glad they showed some self-restraint with RC and let the characters save him. Looking back on it, it was a nice early indicator that this film wasn't going to be as death-obsessed as the previous one.
Also, Pixar loves to open films sometimes with a giant emotional smack to the audience sometimes, was actually pretty glad they showed some self-restraint with RC and let the characters save him. Looking back on it, it was a nice early indicator that this film wasn't going to be as death-obsessed as the previous one.
It just felt like Bonnie saw Woody as redundant. Like she has both a cowboy(Woody) and a cowgirl(Jessie), it seemed like perhaps she identified better with Jessie than Woody. To me this point was driven home when she takes the sheriff star from Woody and puts it on Jessie.
Really liked it. Probably not as good as TS3, and certainly not emotionally leveling like that film (which I'm ok with!), but it was a sweet movie. Having grown up with this series and watched the movies in real time, Woody leaving Buzz and the others wasn't just touching as a fairly definitive ending to this 25-year story, but also felt like a lesson of its own: learning to accept when you've run your course with one phase of life and reinventing yourself for the next one. Like Monsters University, it's a surprisingly poignant lesson about giving up your idealized future in order to move forward in life.
I'm ok with most of the cast not factoring into this movie, as TS3 seemed like a fitting send-off for the toys already. This movie is more Woody's story and his transition into the next stage of his life as a toy, so it makes sense that most of the story is spent with a collection of new toys. I did like the minor roles played by Rex and Ham though. And loved that RC cameo!
I'm ok with most of the cast not factoring into this movie, as TS3 seemed like a fitting send-off for the toys already. This movie is more Woody's story and his transition into the next stage of his life as a toy, so it makes sense that most of the story is spent with a collection of new toys. I did like the minor roles played by Rex and Ham though. And loved that RC cameo!
Yeah, this was my personal takeaway on the film. It kinda nagged at me that Buzz came across as dumbed down at times, but all in all that aspect alone doesn't really negate the positive aspects of the movie. It doesn't try to go for the same emotional climax of TS3 and instead opts to act more as a character study of sorts for Woody to bring a final stage of conclusion into his personal character arc apart from the rest of the gang.
People angry at Bonnie are rather like Woody in the first film, he's not entitled to be her favourite toy just because he was Andy's. Never mind that Woody isn't even upset about that, he's simply frustrated because he feels its his purpose to make sure she's happy and it's hard to do that from a closet. Notice as soon as she makes Forky, he spends all his time trying to make sure she keeps her favourite, the entirely opposite reaction to his being supplanted by Buzz in the first film. A sign of how much he's changed as a character.
Yup, love that detail. When Forky showed up I immediately assumed Woody would be the one criticizing his status as a toy and bringing into question where the line between toy and object is drawn. When he took the exact opposite stance, I was reminded of his "no toy left behind" stance from the prior films and how he moved past a lot of jealousy by the end of Toy Story 1. It wasn't what I expected but it felt right for the character.
I disagree. Woody's motivation through all three films has always been centered around Andy, so it's not surprising that he becomes less attached to someone else who is so drastically different. Particularly one that has neglected him a few times to that point, and even though he's changed, neglect was what brought him to be an asshole in TS1. That alongside getting a second chance with Bo and filling the role of saving toys which he loves doing, it's not really overreacting as much as him finding a niche that fit him.
It's also not downplaying when I'm simply stating facts of the matter. Andy gives away the toys around the end of summer and via the Shorts we see the toys endure Winter/Christmas and the start of Bonnie's kindergarten semester in this movie which would imply it's been about a year's time. And Old Timer states third time "this week" which could imply several things but is still worth noting.
I just took the ending as everybody was happy ☺only Buzz and Jessie had some relationship with Woody because the others huh, don't appear, and Bonnie is no Andy like Woody wanted to believe, he also found an old girlfriend really the choice was easy he just needed a little help from Buzz.It would be different if it was Andy
Honestly it was more sad watching Woody saying goodbye to the fork than the others
he never said he was sad about leaving Buzz and co he always focused on Bonnie and his duty as a toy.
It had a cheerful ending to me but i like it, maybe it's because. I'm more grumpy now
Haven't seen the movie, don't think I can bring myself to even though I adore Toy Story because of how much I hate the ending.
If you feel the need to trample all over the endings of your previous movies to squeeze out an emotional beat to end the last one on, then maybe you just shouldn't be making another movie.
If you feel the need to trample all over the endings of your previous movies to squeeze out an emotional beat to end the last one on, then maybe you just shouldn't be making another movie.
Yeaaah. The VAs of Woody and Buzz said this will be their last film they'll do. TS5/6 will have to happen without Woody or Buzz, or with new VAs (which will be suidice for Disney to try).
Where did you get this from? Every interview I've seen states both Tim Allen and Tom Hanks assume there will be more to come for the series and in no way implies that they want to stop.
Maybe you should check out the movie before making a verdict.
Do I really need to?
TS3's big emotional ending doesn't really mean anything now since Woody just up and bails on Bonnie and his friends anyway. And TS2's final line is Woody and Buzz talking about how even after Andy grows up, they'll still have each other's backs for "infinity and beyond." Oops.
It absolutely sounds like this movie spits all over all of that, so I don't think it's worth my time. Maybe I'll catch it when it comes to Disney's streaming service.