'Transracial' man born white feels like he is Filipino

[Ketkat]

Those findings are not irrefutable

You trust Reuters, right?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-lgbt-biology-idUSKBN1AJ0F0

There is a certain reality that taking hormones to change the hormone production of your body will have a measurable change on your brain.

Secondly, Reuters mentions the study you linked was refuted by over 600 academic scientists, so clearly even in the field of science this is still a subject of fierce debate, and doesn't have a definitive answer.

It's possible it ends up being something biological, but we're not there yet. Personally, I don't really think social identity is a biological thing, but maybe I end up being wrong. I'm a free thinker, so i don't like the concept of social identity and gender being tied to biogenetics.

Click to shrink...

What study did I link? Because I gave you the collection of all the studies put together that show a link between biological basis and being trans. I don't know how you can discount all of that to just spread your own bullshit about what you want about our identies

 

[Ketkat]

Accident double post

 

[Noroi_Kisaragi]

What study did I link? Because I gave you the collection of all the studies put together that show a link between biological basis and being trans. I don't know how you can discount all of that to just spread your own bullshit about what you want about our identies

Click to shrink...

Because by trying to prove that biological links with being trans is directly implying that you are tied to what you are born as mentally and nothing you can do will ever change that. Isn't that a little counter-intuitive for the whole "transition" concept you preach? It's not just about your rights, its about the rights of others as well.

There are people who try the concept you preach in other fields besides transgenderism, such as Rachel Dolzeal from the ex-NAACP: http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/16/us/washington-rachel-dolezal-naacp/index.html but she gets shot down for excercising the same philosophy as you in the transracial/transcultural field, but for transgenders, you would make some sort of exception to this? Do you see the hypocrisy in that philosophy?

We need to stop tying biogenetics to social identity. It's anti-progressive to its very core, and i'm not sure why you're defending it. Freedom of expression is freedom from genetics.

Don't mistake this for an Anti-LGBTQ post. It's not. This is an anti-youarewhatyouarebornas-post


edit: is there a DDOS right now? this lag is making it impossible to have a conversation.

 

[Cream]

Because by trying to prove that biological links with being trans is directly implying that you are tied to what you are born as mentally and nothing you can do will ever change that. Isn't that a little counter-intuitive for the whole "transition" concept you preach? It's not just about your rights, its about the rights of others as well.

There are people who try the concept you preach in other fields besides transgenderism, such as Rachel Dolzeal from the ex-NAACP: http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/16/us/washington-rachel-dolezal-naacp/index.html but she gets shot down for excercising the same philosophy as you in the transracial/transcultural field, but for transgenders, you would make some sort of exception to this? Do you see the hypocrisy in that philosophy?

We need to stop tying biogenetics to social identity. It's anti-progressive to its very core, and i'm not sure why you're defending it. Freedom of expression is freedom from genetics.

Don't mistake this for an Anti-LGBTQ post. It's not. This is an anti-youarewhatyouarebornas-post

Click to shrink...

Have you just been sleeping at your keyboard this whole thread? Jesus. So many awful arguments I don't know where to start.

I'll just start by saying transition is not at all integral to transgenderism.

Pretending to be a different race is a choice. Being transgender is not. Simple as that.

 

[Ketkat]

Because by trying to prove that biological links with being trans is directly implying that you are tied to what you are born as mentally and nothing you can do will ever change that. Isn't that a little counter-intuitive for the whole "transition" concept you preach? It's not just about your rights, its about the rights of others as well.

There are people who try the concept you preach in other fields besides transgenderism, such as Rachel Dolzeal from the ex-NAACP: http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/16/us/washington-rachel-dolezal-naacp/index.html but she gets shot down for excercising the same philosophy as you in the transracial/transcultural field, but for transgenders, you would make some sort of exception to this? Do you see the hypocrisy in that philosophy?

We need to stop tying biogenetics to social identity. It's anti-progressive to its very core, and i'm not sure why you're defending it. Freedom of expression is freedom from genetics.

Don't mistake this for an Anti-LGBTQ post. It's not. This is an anti-youarewhatyouarebornas-post

Click to shrink...

Did you even read your own study you gave to me? This is the study that was rebuked by 600 people :
"He encourages psychiatric therapy for transgender people, especially children, so that they accept the gender assigned to them at birth.

McHugh has gained a following among social conservatives, while incensing LGBT advocates with comments such as calling transgender people "counterfeit."

Last year he co-authored a review of the scientific literature published in The New Atlantis journal, asserting there was scant evidence to suggest sexual orientation and gender identity were biologically determined.

The article drew a rebuke from nearly 600 academics and clinicians who called it misleading."

STOP comparing us to otherkin and transracial people because it is NOWHERE NEAR the same.

 

[Vish]

So the guy has a thing for the idealized version of a nation/culture, and wants to be it? Just move there and become a citizen.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Because by trying to prove that biological links with being trans is directly implying that you are tied to what you are born as mentally and nothing you can do will ever change that. Isn't that a little counter-intuitive for the whole "transition" concept you preach? It's not just about your rights, its about the rights of others as well.

There are people who try the concept you preach in other fields besides transgenderism, such as Rachel Dolzeal from the ex-NAACP: http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/16/us/washington-rachel-dolezal-naacp/index.html but she gets shot down for excercising the same philosophy as you in the transracial/transcultural field, but for transgenders, you would make some sort of exception to this? Do you see the hypocrisy in that philosophy?

We need to stop tying biogenetics to social identity. It's anti-progressive to its very core, and i'm not sure why you're defending it. Freedom of expression is freedom from genetics.

Don't mistake this for an Anti-LGBTQ post. It's not. This is an anti-youarewhatyouarebornas-post


edit: is there a DDOS right now? this lag is making it impossible to have a conversation.

Click to shrink...

Jesus Christ I don't know where to start.

 

[kagete]

did you watch the video

Click to shrink...

I apologize but I haven't as I am at work. I only posted after reading these last 5 pages of replies.

 

[erlim]

I feel pretty strange seeing that the only way this person was displaying that they were Filipino was by driving a tuk-tuk.

 

[Noroi_Kisaragi]

Pretending to be a different race is a choice. Being transgender is not. Simple as that.

Click to shrink...

Let me challenge you on this stance, because this topic is relevant to the OP. The difference between race and ethnicity is the same difference between gender and sex. Such as the terms 'transgender' and 'transexual' existing but meaning two different things (the transition of mind, vs the transition of body). So you would think we would have two terms 'transracial' and 'transethnic', but in reality only the term 'transracial' currently exists. In the place of 'transethnic' we like to use the word 'transcultural' . Yet, it is impossible for a transracial operation to take place, you can't change your race, but you're forgetting the exception you derived that you can change your sex.

Changing your gender is one thing, but changing your sex is another. Even though many sexchange operations don't actually change your chromosomes from X to Y and vice versa, you still like to say it has changed someone's sex, even if their new sex isn't exactly matching that of the other gender's sex. And that's fine. That's perfectly acceptable, liberal, progressive, and perfectly OK. (i agree with this btw, i think it's good to have this view)

But then why do you make an exception for race? You have the SAME scenario, someone wants to change race, but there is no surgery available to do so, but they can adopt the ethnicitic and culutural requirements necessary to do so, but you still don't want to recognize it.

There is an exception being made here for transexual operations you don't want to admit. And that is not only non-inclusive, but anti-progressive. So I would challenge you on your stance that is a different situation.

 

[Nabs]

I apologize but I haven't as I am at work. I only posted after reading these last 5 pages of replies.

Click to shrink...

No need to apologize, I was just wondering because the video was completely ridiculous.

 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Lord Jesus, hold me back. I don't want to be banned!

 

[Cream]

Let me challenge you on this stance, because this topic is relevant to the OP. The difference between race and ethnicity is the same difference between gender and sex. Such as the terms 'transgender' and 'transexual' existing but meaning two different things (the transition of mind, vs the transition of body). So you would think we would have two terms 'transracial' and 'transethnic', but in reality only the term 'transracial' currently exists. In the place of 'transethnic' we like to use the word 'transcultural' . Yet, it is impossible for a transracial operation to take place, you can't change your race, but you're forgetting the exception you derived that you can change your sex.

Changing your gender is one thing, but changing your sex is another. Even though many sexchange operations don't actually change your chromosomes from X to Y and vice versa, you still like to say it has changed someone's sex, even if their new sex isn't exactly matching that of the other gender's sex. And that's fine. That's perfectly acceptable, liberal, progressive, and perfectly OK.

But then why do you make an exception for race? You have the SAME scenario, someone wants to change race, but there is no surgery available to do so, but they can adopt the ethnicitic and culutural requirements necessary to do so, but you still don't want to recognize it.

There is an exception being made here for transexual operations you don't want to admit. And that, my friend, is not only non-inclusive, but anti-progressive. So I would challenge you on your stance that is a different situation.

Click to shrink...

lol I'm perfectly willing to admit I do not give this bullshit idea of "transracialism" the same respect I give transgenderism, because, I'll repeat, ITS BULLSHIT.

I don't know what your game is here. But you're not my friend. You seem like you're trying to concern troll for what progressives should do, but it really looks like you're just using this bullshit idea to discount trans people.

You can keep saying "they are the same thing" as many times as you want. It won't make it true.

First of all, your usage of the term "transsexual" is hilariously ignorant. Trans women are women FROM BIRTH. Trans men are men FROM BIRTH. Sex reassignment surgery is a transition of body to more closely match the gender they are.

 

[Jokergrin]

Because by trying to prove that biological links with being trans is directly implying that you are tied to what you are born as mentally and nothing you can do will ever change that. Isn't that a little counter-intuitive for the whole "transition" concept you preach? It's not just about your rights, its about the rights of others as well.

Click to shrink...

Transition doesn't change who you are mentally, it just brings your body into alignment with who you already are.

Being transgender isn't a choice, it is something inherent to you which you cannot change. And believe me trans people go through agony wishing that they could change themselves to not be trans and "be normal" to fit in with society.

Being trans is a separate concept from expression, of course people are free to express themselves any way they want.

 

[Flo_Evans]

I understand that transgender and transracial are different, I just don't think that makes transracial immediately invalid. I think transracial is a poor word for it, cultural vagabond (or if you prefer cultural vampire if you think its harmful) could be more accurate.

 

[Ketkat]

Let me challenge you on this stance, because this topic is relevant to the OP. The difference between race and ethnicity is the same difference between gender and sex. Such as the terms 'transgender' and 'transexual' existing but meaning two different things (the transition of mind, vs the transition of body). So you would think we would have two terms 'transracial' and 'transethnic', but in reality only the term 'transracial' currently exists. In the place of 'transethnic' we like to use the word 'transcultural' . Yet, it is impossible for a transracial operation to take place, you can't change your race, but you're forgetting the exception you derived that you can change your sex.

Changing your gender is one thing, but changing your sex is another. Even though many sexchange operations don't actually change your chromosomes from X to Y and vice versa, you still like to say it has changed someone's sex, even if their new sex isn't exactly matching that of the other gender's sex. And that's fine. That's perfectly acceptable, liberal, progressive, and perfectly OK. (i agree with this btw, i think it's good to have this view)

But then why do you make an exception for race? You have the SAME scenario, someone wants to change race, but there is no surgery available to do so, but they can adopt the ethnicitic and culutural requirements necessary to do so, but you still don't want to recognize it.

There is an exception being made here for transexual operations you don't want to admit. And that is not only non-inclusive, but anti-progressive. So I would challenge you on your stance that is a different situation.

Click to shrink...

If to you its an entirely social situation, and not biological. What's wrong with conversion therapy? Because the argument you're in favor of is thrown around by those who favor it.

 

[Noroi_Kisaragi]

Transition doesn't change who you are mentally, it just brings your body into alignment with who you already are.

Being transgender isn't a choice, it is something inherent to you which you cannot change. And believe me trans people go through agony wishing that they could change themselves to not be trans and "be normal" to fit in with society.

Being trans is a separate concept from expression, of course people are free to express themselves any way they want.

Click to shrink...

Hmm. I see. Thanks for the honest opinion. So do you think that people should only change sex if that's how they feel they were born as? I think I understand what you're saying.

And now, i'm starting to see why the government is having such a hard time making laws for this. It's very difficult to conservatively write how this process works into law. Perhaps this is the key difference between approaching this issue conservatively and liberally.

 

[PoppaBK]

Fucking bullshit.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/01/150107082133.htm

http://www.journalofpsychiatricresearch.com/article/S0022-3956(10)00158-5/abstract

Click to shrink...

I wish people wouldn't cling to these types of studies. I mean look at table 4 in the Rametti paper, and then look at the sd's. Even at 2 sd, which is approx 60% of the distribution you start to see significant overlap between the male and female groups, never mind the MtF group. Which means that there are a significant number of men that are more 'female' like than some of the MtF group. Also there are some men that are more 'female' like than women. Also there are MtF trans gendered individuals that are more 'male' than the average man. There is some 'on average' difference between the groups, but this likely points to an inherent selection bias in the MtF transgendered group rather than a structural basis for being transgender.

On topic, I believe that being 'trans-racial', while possible, would be just a mental delusion. Not that it wouldn't be true to that individual, but there doesn't seem to be a specific pathology that would make it distinct as a condition.

 

[Cream]

Hmm. I see. Thanks for the honest opinion. So do you think that people should only change sex if that's how they feel they were born as? I think I understand what you're saying.

And now, i'm starting to see why the government is having such a hard time making laws for this. It's very difficult to conservatively write how this process works into law. Perhaps this is the key difference between approaching this issue conservatively and liberally.

Click to shrink...

What he's saying isn't opinion, it's fact. Transgenderism isn't a feeling. It is what you are inside, unequivocally.

Respecting someone's identity isn't difficult. And conservatives have no intention of doing so.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Why not? I don't see a problem per se. Its never going to be a major thing, plus as posters have said, Filipino is a nationality, not a race...

Poppack...Whether delusional or not, there are two major critieria to be considered part of a social category. Whether you consider yourself part of that category, and whether enough or significant members of the other category consider you part of that category.

 

[Fiction]

I'm not sure I get this sentence. So a white guy who thinks he's transracial goes to a res and he culturally appropriates the women? I don't get what this means. Are you saying that because he's misrepresenting himself he then gains ownership of the women? Or that they'll have sex with him but their consent is invalidated by his claim of being transracial?

I understand the point (I think) you're making about how white people breeding with native people has decimated their bloodline, but I don't get the idea about being able to culturally appropriate people?

More than an idea of transracial, I gather that America has more people that claim Native ancestry where there is none (or it's diluted so much as to be meaningless).

Click to shrink...

I am not sure if you are misinterpreting my point on purpose, but I am illustrating actual cultural erasure through genocide, rape, 're-education schools' and the straight up theft of that(my) culture by conquering races. I grew up in New Mexico, which is better than most, but people selling 50© Chinese made bullshit as authentic Native Made products because its Magic by dudes who wear wigs and pretend to be who they are not. The culturally appropriating the women is an attempt at showing the absurdity of the 'transracial' argument because America transracialled countless indigenous folks and their culture out of existence. But no, it's a good thing apparently?

But my examples don't matter because no one gives a shit about natives and we are ghosts. Hence your weird :oh they got bred out' bullshit when I specifically mentioned the mass rape of native women by white men. Where in the world did their concentration every come into play when I was talking about fucking rape?

 

[Canucked]

That video makes it hard to take this seriously. And I want to say "let him be him" but, the Philippines is multicultural in itself isn't it. There are northerners and southerners and all that. What if for economic reasons they joined another country...to pull out a random one...Australia. And changed their name. What on earth would you even identify with? Would you say you were Manilan?

Gender and sexuality is a very different thing.

 

[Pretty Bomber Head]

Somebody let me know when this person learns the languages, follows the cultural traditions, passes it along to the youth, then has it taken away through hundreds of years of violent colonial oppression. Maybe after that I'll consider this person Filipino.

 

[molnizzle]

What he's saying isn't opinion, it's fact. Transgenderism isn't a feeling. It is what you are inside, unequivocally.

Click to shrink...

Gender is also a social construct though, is it not? I can't refute the idea of transracialism if both race and gender are social constructs.

 

[Fiction]

Obviously too heated for this topic. Yall enjoy.

Ayóó'ánííníshní

 

[Llyrwenne]

Can we please stop comparing this to being transgender.

You are not born with culture or inherent cultural knowledge, you are born into culture and need to acquire such knowledge.

Even if any scientific evidence is found for the idea of being 'transracial' or 'transcultural', those concepts would still be entirely different from being transgender.

 

[Stabi]

So do you think that people should only change sex if that's how they feel they were born as?

Click to shrink...

I understand where the question is coming from. to rephrase it, orpaint it more black and white, I'd say 'would you allow sex change operations for people who just want to do it for fun, would it offend or bring prejudice to transpeople?'
I'd tend to say yes.

For the topic at hand, maybe there should be a word for people who think they are transracial like this person, but nit start the word with 'trans' because of all the baggage it brings with regard to transgenderism. Maybe the discussion would evolve differently and not focus on the comparison of the two

 

[Chojin]

Somebody let me know when this person learns the languages, follows the cultural traditions, passes it along to the youth, then has it taken away through hundreds of years of violent colonial oppression. Maybe after that I'll consider this person Filipino.

Click to shrink...

All 9 major languages? English is one of them by the way. So I think he's good on that.

And which cultural traditions should he learn? Tagalog? Kampanpangan? Visayan? Ifugao? Or is it sufficient to a Metro Manila urbanized Halo Halo (mixed)?

The point I was trying to make is that
1) Transracial is not really accurate as theres no Filipino "Race" as much as the United States government would like to believe

And

2)The whole idea is absurd. Its like saying one identifies with Americn Culture. What exactly is the definitive American culture?

And lastly
3) The guys a nut anyway. What History Channel programs featured the Philippines that wasn't WWII related? Does he identify with the Baatan Death March (where I lost both American AND Filipino grandparent) or the battle for Corrigidor? The second one, not the first sexy one with pirates.

 

[Zoe]

The point I was trying to make is that
1) Transracial is not really accurate as theres no Filipino "Race" as much as the United States government would like to believe

Click to shrink...

So then what do you call all the people in the US who identify as Filipino-American? Many of us absolutely do not have Filipino nationality.

 

[Chojin]

So then what do you call all the people in the US who identify as Filipino-American? Many of us absolutely do not have Filipino nationality.

Click to shrink...

Asian?

Do you further separate Aetas and Kastiles?

 

[Stabi]

The whole idea is absurd. Its like saying one identifies with Americn Culture. What exactly is the definitive American culture?

Click to shrink...

I'd say American culture exist while not every American necesseraly embraces every aspect of it.
I'm not mad that some people use quick shortcut that label Filipino culture as one, as i am not mad if someone says American culture, or French cultures even though, in france at least, people from Brittany and people from Provence have different subcultures.

So if the question is do you understand this part of the culture and this part etc etc; and do you relate? I dont think anyone could answer by yes, doesn't mean they're not culturally American or french.

But when you say Filipino is not a race, I agree. It's a citizenship, an aggregate of culture and ethnicities.
So transracial is a concept I don't really approve, maybe multicultural is a nicer word that d offend less

 

[Chojin]

Zoe tell me which of these Filipinos the white guy identifies with:

These are all Filipinos. When the white guy says hes trapped in a white body while he's "Racially Filipino" what is he exactly talking about?

 

[Zoe]

Asian?

Do you further separate Aetas and Kastiles?

Click to shrink...

If they desire it, sure.

Asian doesn't hold enough meaning. My family looks nothing like my husband's East Asian family. My family's experiences are nothing like my husband's East Asian family.

 

[Noroi_Kisaragi]

I understand where the question is coming from. to rephrase it, orpaint it more black and white, I'd say 'would you allow sex change operations for people who just want to do it for fun, would it offend or bring prejudice to transpeople?'
I'd tend to say yes.

For the topic at hand, maybe there should be a word for people who think they are transracial like this person, but nit start the word with 'trans' because of all the baggage it brings with regard to transgenderism. Maybe the discussion would evolve differently and not focus on the comparison of the two

Click to shrink...

Yeah, the perception clicks with me now. Everything said in this topic now makes sense under the perception of "I was born this way", and under that perception, yes, everything said in this topic makes sense, our understanding of race means something completely different, and I now understand the views involved and why we're trying to find scientific/biological connections. Other possible perceptions exist, and transracial is getting into a completely different social argument, so yeah i agree with you, there should be a new word for that discussion

If nothing else, I hope my prior discourse in this thread help other people like me understand how to reach the perspective we're talking about here.

Can you just stop if you're going to ignore 90% of the things said to you?

Click to shrink...

Sure thing. Admittably, I was choosing replies carefully. I ignored the post about conversion therapy because the rationalizations for that are in regards to mental disorders, and i haven't used the word 'mental disorder' once in any of my posts. I believe that "You should think this way" is a dumb concept when practiced by a government most of the time, except in cases where humanitarianism is threatened. If you were expecting me to defend conversion therapy, sorry to disappoint.

 

[Chojin]

If they desire it, sure.

Asian doesn't hold enough meaning. My family looks nothing like my husband's East Asian family. My family's experiences are nothing like my husband's East Asian family.

Click to shrink...

Exactly. So if your husbands family was say Polish and not from East Asia would he have to put down on the census his race was Polish?

Its bullshit to single out Filipinos as a race unless you can tell me who the real Filipino race is?

Its like calling Americans a race.

 

[Deleted member 3335]

It appears to be an unhealthy form of escapism.

He needs help.

 

[Ketkat]

Yeah, the perception clicks with me now. Everything said in this topic now makes sense under the perception of "I was born this way", and under that perception, yes, everything said in this topic makes sense, our understanding of race means something completely different, and I now understand the views involved and why we're trying to find scientific/biological connections. Other possible perceptions exist, and transracial is getting into a completely different social argument, so yeah i agree with you, there should be a new word for that discussion

If nothing else, I hope my prior discourse in this thread help other people like me understand how to reach the perspective we're talking about here.

Click to shrink...

Can you just stop if you're going to ignore 90% of the things said to you?

 

[pulga]

You do you m8

 

[Chojin]

Also, I'd like to bring up Filipinos as a race was a construct of a racist US Government to further subjugate Filipinos with anti-race laws. Filipinos were called out specifically in anti-miscegenation laws, ant-marijuana laws, and immigration laws. Its bullshit created by McKinley and his ilk trying to justify occupying the Philippines after the Spanish American War

Lest we forget (already did a long fucking time ago):

We were niggers to them (their words, read link).

Its insulting to be separated from the rest of Asia. Especially with the racially charged motivations for doing so. Fuck them.


Back on topic: This guy should be taken as seriously as those hipster douches that wished they lived in the Victorian age where they thought they'd be playing Whist when in reality they'd be shitting their brains out from drinking cholera infected poop water, that is if they didn't die rickets or some shit as a child.

Grass is greener and all that. I have to remind Filipinos that too. I have Family members who think coming here is easy street because of the TV they watch (who actually works for a living on TV?) and then are shellshocked that you have to work for a living just to live? You can't just throw up a Sari-Sari store and have siestas whenever.

So yeah. Can we stop trying to compare Transendered folk to this asshole? Its not remotely even close. Stop using my and many other posters people as an outlet to shit on Transpeople. Appeciate it.

 

[A Syrian Communist]

Exactly. So if your husbands family was say Polish and not from East Asia would he have to put down on the census his race was Polish?

Its bullshit to single out Filipinos as a race unless you can tell me who the real Filipino race is?

Its like calling Americans a race.

Click to shrink...

^^^^
I recall reading that sometime in the 70s, Arabs successfully moved to have themselves classified as "white" on the US census to dodge racial discrimination. I always thought it was really bizarre to have to put that down because I'm Syrian and had no idea what that was supposed to translate to, especially since my cousin happens to be way darker than me but would still be considered "white" as well, but now that I understand the context it makes sense.

 

[Ketkat]

Sure thing. Admittably, I was choosing replies carefully. I ignored the post about conversion therapy because the rationalizations for that are in regards to mental disorders, and i haven't used the word 'mental disorder' once in any of my posts. I believe that "You should think this way" is a dumb concept when practiced by a government most of the time, except in cases where humanitarianism is threatened. If you were expecting me to defend conversion therapy, sorry to disappoint.

Click to shrink...

I expected you to address the fact that your source that was supposed to speaking against biologically based reasons for being trans actually said the opposite, and the discredited comments were repeatedly said by a guy who calls trans people frauds, advocates conversion therapy, and all around thinks we're just insane.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Gender is also a social construct though, is it not? I can't refute the idea of transracialism if both race and gender are social constructs.

Click to shrink...

No gender roles are. Identity is not

 

[Noroi_Kisaragi]

I expected you to address the fact that your source that was supposed to speaking against biologically based reasons for being trans actually said the opposite, and the discredited comments were repeatedly said by a guy who calls trans people frauds, advocates conversion therapy, and all around thinks we're just insane.

Click to shrink...

I retracted that source immediately and was misinformed. If you go back to that post, you can check the timestamp of the edit if you want. Because of the ResetERA server lag that i'm sure you remember since you accidently double posted around that time, i wasn't quick enough on updating the post and it's possible you didn't catch my edit. The discussion on what defines gender and how it differs from race doesn't take the reuters article into account and i apologize for the mistake. i'll own up to that.

 

[Ketkat]

I retracted that source immediately and was misinformed. If you go back to that post, you can check the timestamp of the edit if you want. Because of the ResetERA server lag that i'm sure you remember since you accidently double posted around that time, i wasn't quick enough on updating the post and it's possible you didn't catch my edit. The discussion on what defines gender and how it differs from race doesn't take the reuters article into account and i apologize for the mistake. i'll own up to that.

Click to shrink...

That's what I have an issue with. Its a source that you felt was reputable, and that I would find reputable. But you don't even think for a second about it when its shown that you're factually wrong about the science. From the HUffington Post article :

From your new article :
"While Mayer and McHugh claim that there's "no evidence" for the biological origins of gender identity or sexual orientation, this is simply untrue. For example, here are 93 legitimate papers, dissertations, and peer-reviewed journal articles on how hormone exposure affects gender identity and sexual orientation in humans, and 26 more on animals. There have also been 11 showing genetic links in humans, and 16 in animals. Boston University conducted a meta-study (peer reviewed, by the way) which reached the conclusion that there is a biological mechanism for gender identity. It concluded that, "Medical care of transgender patients, including surgical and hormonal treatment, has largely been met with resistance by physicians in favor of psychiatric treatment, owing to misconceptions that gender identity can be changed."

Even Scientific American (a more reputable and non-partisan publication than the New Atlantis) looked at the issue this spring, and concluded, "Overall the weight of these studies and others points strongly toward a biological basis for gender dysphoria"

How many studies have to be done before you can admit that what YOU want for trans people doesn't matter, and that your views closely align with those who insult us and want us in conversion therapy?

 

[Cyrion]

There are no "races". The concept of human "races" dates back to 19th century pseudo-science invented by racist colonials and has no basis in science whatsoever. Everyone who still uses this term and this concept, and this account for liberals too, helps to perpetuate and enforce the myth of different "races" existing.

 

[Cocaloch]

There are no "races". The concept of human "races" dates back to 19th century pseudo-science invented by racist colonials and has no basis in science whatsoever. Everyone who still uses this term and this concept, and this account for liberals too, helps to perpetuate and enforce the myth of different "races" existing.

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Races obviously exist, social constructs are real things. If you disagree you might want to think about why black men's experiences with the police are quite different from those of white men. It's not a coincidence that Cops treat certain people certain ways.

You mean races don't have a biological reality, which is true. That being said, we need the framework of race to deal with the issues created by it. We aren't going to get around the problems of racism by pretending racism doesn't exist.

 

[Deleted member 2761]

There are no "races". The concept of human "races" dates back to 19th century pseudo-science invented by racist colonials and has no basis in science whatsoever. Everyone who still uses this term and this concept, and this account for liberals too, helps to perpetuate and enforce the myth of different "races" existing.

Click to shrink...

Just because there is no biological basis for race doesn't mean that people don't treat each other differently across lines of culture, geographic origin, and skin color. Don't misuse the science.

 

[Pretty Bomber Head]

All 9 major languages? English is one of them by the way. So I think he's good on that.

And which cultural traditions should he learn? Tagalog? Kampanpangan? Visayan? Ifugao? Or is it sufficient to a Metro Manila urbanized Halo Halo (mixed)?

The point I was trying to make is that
1) Transracial is not really accurate as theres no Filipino "Race" as much as the United States government would like to believe

And

2)The whole idea is absurd. Its like saying one identifies with Americn Culture. What exactly is the definitive American culture?

And lastly
3) The guys a nut anyway. What History Channel programs featured the Philippines that wasn't WWII related? Does he identify with the Baatan Death March (where I lost both American AND Filipino grandparent) or the battle for Corrigidor? The second one, not the first sexy one with pirates.

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I should've been more clear. I agree, this whole thing is ridiculous and insulting. This person identifies as Filipino just because they're a fan of the "food, events and overall culture" and watched some shit on the History Channel? Get the fuck outta here with that nonsense.

The point I was trying to make was that this person clearly wants to be Filipino, but without all the baggage. You certainly don't share a history with us that includes hundreds of years of violent colonial oppression that can still be seen and felt today. And you most definitely can't pick and choose parts of our history and culture that you like then claim to be us. This is disgusting and seeing people claim that there is nothing wrong with it is frustrating.

(And by you, I mean the person in the article.)

 

[Cocaloch]

Just because there is no biological basis for race doesn't mean that people don't treat each other differently across lines of culture, geographic origin, and skin color. Don't misuse the science.

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It's not that he's even misusing science. It's that science isn't even the right set of methodologies and disciplines to deal with issues like this at all.

People need to get it out of their heads that some nebulously defined science is the correct tool for every single kind of issue. Racial issues clearly call for Humansitic and Social Scientific inquiry since those issues clearly do not exist in the natural world. That would be true even if race had a biological meaning because our perception of it, and actions informed by that perception, are purely social phenomenon.

I should've been more clear. I agree, this whole thing is ridiculous and insulting. This person identifies as Filipino just because they're a fan of the "food, events and overall culture" and watched some shit on the History Channel? Get the fuck outta here with that nonsense.

The point I was trying to make was that this person clearly wants to be Filipino, but without all the baggage. You certainly don't share a history with us that includes hundreds of years of violent colonial oppression that can still be seen and felt today. And you most definitely can't pick and choose parts of our history and culture that you like then claim to be us. This is disgusting and seeing people claim that there is nothing wrong with it is frustrating.

(And by you, I mean the person in the article.)

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Ultimately the issue is who gets to control membership in groups and self-identification. I've never seen a single approach that even comes close to answering this for all identities.

Though I think most modern scholars actually would agree that it's not a real issue. There isn't enough of a solid dinge an sich behind many of these categories for them to have a stable meaning that can be controlled. Without some sort of institution understood to have authority to give meaning to groups, like universities for academics, bars for lawyers, etc, they essentially can not be controlled.

The bizarre appropriate by Galicians of what they imagine to be the culture of Scotland-Ireland, which in this imagining are totally indistinct as far as I can tell, in order to be "Celtic" comes to mind.

 

[Gundam]

As a Filipino, Filipino pride gets to uncomfortable levels for me.

This is on another level of stupid, though.