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thediamondage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,307
President Donald Trump and bipartisan congressional leaders clinched a sweeping two-year budget agreement that would produce hundreds of billions in new spending and take the threat of a fiscal crisis off of Washington's plate for more than two years.
The deal, which came together in a burst of urgency during a period of two weeks amid a steady stream of phone calls Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, would eliminate -- for good -- the budget caps put into place in 2011 and suspend the debt ceiling until July 31, 2021.


Pelosi, Schumer, McConnell, and Trump have reached an agreement to fund the federal government until July 2021, well past the Nov 2020 elections. Was that a wise, sober move from the democrats to not disrupt the government potentially in the middle of the 2020 presidential cycle or was it giving away a bargaining position with seemingly nothing back from the White House on immigration, trade deals, etc?

In 2018 the government shut down for 35 days in Dec/Jan (2019) over basically the same issue, not really sure how that impacted voters.
 

ckareset

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Feb 2, 2018
4,977
Yikes. Democrats should sabotage the economy the same way Republicans did for Obama
 
Jun 4, 2019
593
Democrats should sabotage the economy
39387.jpg
 
Oct 28, 2017
22,596
All the restrictions Republicans put up when Obama was in office are gone. Trumps deficit is as big as Obama's first term but Trump is enjoying low unemployment and a strengthening economy.

And the media will let the GOP ignore it when Trump leaves office as usual. The cycle will continue.
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,797
This is a good thing. Stop holding the government hostage over the debt ceiling.
 

XMonkey

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,827
The debt ceiling should go away entirely. It's a stupid and dangerous concept, especially when you try to play chicken with it.
 

Annubis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,666
At some point, the US will crumble under its debt and all the rich will flee laughing.
 

Rune Walsh

Too many boners
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,038
I can't even find a fail gif horrible enough to encompass my feelings. Why can't Schumer figure out that McConnell would eat a baby on live TV if he thought he could?
 

bomma man

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,069
How fucking stupid do you have to be to put anything past Mitch?

I don't think it's sincere. No one's that stupid. The Democratic top brass just want obstacles in the way of passing genuinely progressive legislation.

Weaponizing the debt ceiling the way Republicans did was reckless and stupid. Just because Republicans are willing to put a gun to the country's head to get what they want doesn't mean Democrats should be.

What's that got to do with the Tweet?
 

Deleted member 2533

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,325
Weaponizing the debt ceiling the way Republicans did was reckless and stupid. Just because Republicans are willing to put a gun to the country's head to get what they want doesn't mean Democrats should be.

The Democrats handed the gun over to the Republicans. Through the end of Trumps term, no one can hold the government hostage over the debt ceiling. At the beginning of a possible Democratic term, the Republicans can hold the government hostage over the debt ceiling.

It reminds me of in North Carolina where the Republicans tried to pass legislation that the controlling members of the election board would alternate between Democrat and Republican in even and odd years. Of course elections are never held in odd years...
 
OP
OP
thediamondage

thediamondage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,307
So confused, is this a good thing or not?

Well it means there will be no government shutdown in 2019 or 2020, during the 2020 presidential election campaigns. So neither side can refuse to fund the government, shut it down, and blame the other side.

On the other hand it was a "weapon" democrats could wield against the republicans to get concessions on immigration or trade or taxes or abortion or something, since Trump is in the white house any government shutdown would theoretically be blamed on him. Its of course a pretty dangerous weapon to wield, basically a game of chicken and maybe democrats figured Trump is too crazy to play chicken against.
 

Strike

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,376
They better hope they get a DDD trifecta in 2021 otherwise this might end up biting them in the ass.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,630
What's that got to do with the Tweet?
Jentleson is saying Democrats are foolish to give up the debt ceiling as a tool to sabotage the economy and win policy concessions from Trump the way Republicans did with Obama. The obvious counterpoint is that just because Republicans were comfortable with risking a debt ceiling breach to appease to their base doesn't mean Democrats should. In fact they really shouldn't!
 

hurlex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,143
yeah, just because Republicans did a shitty thing, that doesn't mean the Democrats should. However, they probably should have gotten a deal that extended further than 2021 in that case.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
(Its gonna happen again when democrats take power)
If they get a trifecta they can permanently end the debt ceiling nonsense, which they'll want to do because they'll probably lose a chamber in 2022 due to the American Negative Enthusiasm Political Pendulum of Stupid.
They better hope they get a DDD trifecta in 2021 otherwise this might end up biting them in the ass.
If we don't get a trifecta in 2020 we're pretty fucked regardless of the debt ceiling bullshit - don't play for stuff that makes a losing situation better, play to win.

Complaining that Dems are "incompetent" here misses the fundamental point of "If the GOP has a chamber of congress in 2020 alongside a Dem president, the Debt Ceiling will be the least of our problems."
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
And they will definitely put this in their "I'm for bipartisanship" column.
I eagerly await in 3 years when Dems take back the Wh (if they do) and Mitch doesn't reciprocate this move to have the usual suspects let us know why this actually was a smart move and not at all detrimental to the democratic party.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Well it means there will be no government shutdown in 2019 or 2020, during the 2020 presidential election campaigns. So neither side can refuse to fund the government, shut it down, and blame the other side.

On the other hand it was a "weapon" democrats could wield against the republicans to get concessions on immigration or trade or taxes or abortion or something, since Trump is in the white house any government shutdown would theoretically be blamed on him. Its of course a pretty dangerous weapon to wield, basically a game of chicken and maybe democrats figured Trump is too crazy to play chicken against.
The attempt at doing a shutdown didn't work out last time, and the reasons it didn't work that time would still come up again w/ any future attempts. The GOP can leverage it because their base is full of ideologues who deliberately want to hurt people in order to get their way. The Dems have far fewer of those types, which is both a good thing, but also makes this type of political play pretty much a nonstarter.
The Democrats handed the gun over to the Republicans. Through the end of Trumps term, no one can hold the government hostage over the debt ceiling. At the beginning of a possible Democratic term, the Republicans can hold the government hostage over the debt ceiling.

It reminds me of in North Carolina where the Republicans tried to pass legislation that the controlling members of the election board would alternate between Democrat and Republican in even and odd years. Of course elections are never held in odd years...
If the Dems get the Senate and the White House, the GOP cannot do this. The fillibuster will be nuked out of sheer necessity.
 

99nikniht

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,352
Well it means there will be no government shutdown in 2019 or 2020, during the 2020 presidential election campaigns. So neither side can refuse to fund the government, shut it down, and blame the other side.

On the other hand it was a "weapon" democrats could wield against the republicans to get concessions on immigration or trade or taxes or abortion or something, since Trump is in the white house any government shutdown would theoretically be blamed on him. Its of course a pretty dangerous weapon to wield, basically a game of chicken and maybe democrats figured Trump is too crazy to play chicken against.

I guess one of the agreements that would be better is extending this budget deal past 2024, in the event the D keeps the house, wins the WH, but fails to take senate.
 

xnipx

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
142
Shouldn't the deal have been to remove the debt ceiling completely? What benefit does it serve by giving Trump a mulligan(which every president should have?)
 

Wafflinson

Banned
Nov 17, 2017
2,084
Shouldn't the deal have been to remove the debt ceiling completely? What benefit does it serve by giving Trump a mulligan(which every president should have?)
No chance that would pass.

Too many people like having the OPTION to use it every year or so to make a stand on some issue.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
It feels like that's the most likely election outcome to me.
Right now it looks like we probably are going to end up with 49 at a minimum. CO, AZ and ME are all likely to flip - Collins going full Trump trying to win a primary in 3 years for governor has backfired badly to the point she's now underwater w/ approval. The 50th, though, is going to be harder- Doug Jones retaining, flipping NC, or IA, or one of one or two others I'm forgetting is needed to take it back, and that likely requires some degree of overperformance past the bare minimum needed to beat Trump. Hopefully one or more of those others get there.
 

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,729
It feels like that's the most likely election outcome to me.
For what it's worth, Nate Silver has said if we win the presidency, we're favorites to flip the Senate. The most likely seat breakdown in that scenario, however, is 50-50 with the VP casting tiebreaker votes. As Kirblar notes, we have a pretty clear path to 49, but getting to 50+ will be the difficult part of the task.
Right now it looks like we probably are going to end up with 49 at a minimum. CO, AZ and ME are all likely to flip - Collins going full Trump trying to win a primary in 3 years for governor has backfired badly to the point she's now underwater w/ approval. The 50th, though, is going to be harder- Doug Jones retaining, flipping NC, or IA, or one of one or two others I'm forgetting is needed to take it back, and that likely requires some degree of overperformance past the bare minimum needed to beat Trump. Hopefully one or more of those others get there.
We have an outside chance at KS if Kobach gets the GOP nomination and we can reassemble Laura Kelly's coalition. GA and TX are not completely safe for the GOP.

And if Bullock would run in MT...
 

XMonkey

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,827
Shouldn't the deal have been to remove the debt ceiling completely? What benefit does it serve by giving Trump a mulligan(which every president should have?)
Ideally, yes.

But Democrats only have the House and you need the Senate and Trump to sign off on this too. Republicans aren't gonna agree to a deal that gets rid of it entirely.