• Light/Dark
  • Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Trump on Trial - Episode 1 |OT| The One with the Porn Star (NOW ON TRIAL)

Reader mode
Rogue74

Rogue74

Member
Nov 13, 2017
1,780
Miami, FL
Mandos said:
It's called due process. While it'd be fun to slap him with something big early it's not how it works. Tho if he does enough stupid stuff it does stack into bigger consequences later
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
From what I read, it works how the judge wants it to work. The penalty is up to Merchan's discretion. I would understand if there is a law that states what happens on a first violation and onwards. But if the judge can deem that it wasn't a mistake and he is willfully disrespecting the court and trying to taint the jury pool, the consequences could be far worse than a 1k fine.

Up until now, I am not impressed with how judges have used their discretion in regards to Trump. Frankly, they seem scared.
 
OP
OP
phisheep

phisheep

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,928
Rogue74 said:
Why bother with the gag order violation if all you are seeking is 3K? Forget the fines altogether. He violates them, jail him. Otherwise STFU and get on with the trial.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It'll be the same as with Judge Engoron. If he does it again the fine will escalate. It worked in the NY civil trial after the second time/first escalation.
 

Hound

Member
Jul 6, 2019
1,864
$1000 per incident is an embarrassing ask. Dude already showed a small fine is not enough to stop him.
 
SilentPanda

SilentPanda

Member
Nov 6, 2017
14,074
Earth

Who are the attorneys representing Donald Trump in his New York criminal trial?

Trump-lawyers-New-York-Necheles-Weiss-Bove-Blanche.jpg

Todd Blanche doesn't just represent Trump in his New York case, but the former federal prosecutor also represents Trump in his classifieds document case in Florida as well as Trump's indictment on four felony counts in Washington, D.C., for allegedly conspiring to subvert the results of the 2020 election.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Blanche — a registered Democrat turned Republican who, for a time, also worked in the same office as Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg — has effectively uprooted his entire professional life to represent Trump in the historic case.

This is only the second time Blanche has defended a client at a criminal trial. Blanche Law Firm has racked up millions from the Save America PAC, according to the New York Times, receiving $3 million in the last year alone.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Susan Necheles is a longtime defense attorney from New York who also represented Trump in his civil fraud case and is known for representing the late mafia crime boss Venero Mangano.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The FEC reported that Trump's political action committee, Save America — which pays most of his legal fees — spent $76 million in the last year. The bulk of that, roughly $47 million, FEC disbursement reports show, went to lawyers and other legal fees.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

lawandcrime.com

Who are the attorneys representing Donald Trump in his New York criminal trial?

Jury selection begins in Donald Trump's criminal hush-money trial in New York Monday and representing the former president are attorneys Todd Blanche, Emil Bove, Stephen Weiss and Susan R. Necheles.
lawandcrime.com lawandcrime.com
 

Hound

Member
Jul 6, 2019
1,864
HStallion said:
After all the Jan 6. shit heads started getting arrested and charged a lot of the MAGA chuds see any kind of large chud gathering as a sting by the FBI or some other government agency. They basically conspiracy theory'd themselves out of showing up.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It must suck for the MAGA chuds, not knowing if the FBI guy at their rally is there because he's also a chud, or if he's there to conduct surveillance, or both.
 
FrostweaveBandage

FrostweaveBandage

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Sep 27, 2019
6,931
Fnor said:
There is a statutory limit in New York on criminal contempt of court fines. Criminal contempt is disproportionately levied against pro se and indigent parties and having low limits is reasonable. Trump is, as always, the exception that breaks the rule. This is separate from the portion of the Judiciary law that outlines contempt in civil proceedings, which does not have the same limitations.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Thanks for linking this. I was trying to find it myself but kept finding sites about family law. Apparently contempt is commonly used as a charge against deadbeat child support payers. I assumed there were statutory limits involved.
 
FrostweaveBandage

FrostweaveBandage

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Sep 27, 2019
6,931
HStallion said:
After all the Jan 6. shit heads started getting arrested and charged a lot of the MAGA chuds see any kind of large chud gathering as a sting by the FBI or some other government agency. They basically conspiracy theory'd themselves out of showing up.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yep, this is what happened when they tried to convoy down to the border. Infighting broke out as their paranoia about individuals being FBI operatives started to weaken their resolve. I'm not sure they all even made it to the ultimate destination.
 
HStallion

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
62,466
FrostweaveBandage said:
Yep, this is what happened when they tried to convoy down to the border. Infighting broke out as their paranoia about individuals being FBI operatives started to weaken their resolve. I'm not sure they all even made it to the ultimate destination.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It doesn't help the conservative world is full of grifters willing to take advantage of every little thing that gets the Right agitated without actually producing anything of real value. A lot of these chud crusades get hijacked, if they're not a grift from the start, and lead people along while sucking their wallets dry leaving them as angry as they are destitute. Then other MAGA chuds hear about this and because the brain rot is so strong they just assume its liberals and people on the left screwing them over instead of realizing the call is coming from inside the house.
 
Rogue74

Rogue74

Member
Nov 13, 2017
1,780
Miami, FL
Fnor said:
There is a statutory limit in New York on criminal contempt of court fines. Criminal contempt is disproportionately levied against pro se and indigent parties and having low limits is reasonable. Trump is, as always, the exception that breaks the rule. This is separate from the portion of the Judiciary law that outlines contempt in civil proceedings, which does not have the same limitations.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Thank you for the link.

This is what it says:
1. Except as provided in subdivisions (2), (3) and (4), punishment for a contempt, specified in section seven hundred fifty, may be by fine, not exceeding one thousand dollars, or by imprisonment, not exceeding thirty days, in the jail of the county where the court is sitting, or both, in the discretion of the court.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

If I am reading that correctly, the statutory limit is $1000 if the judge wants to use a fine as punishment. But judges aren't limited to that. They can also jail someone for up to 30 days instead of, or in addition to, issuing a fine. And it says right there it is up to the discretion of the court.

So, I will stand by how I feel about this. The judge could be harsher if he wants to be. Who gives a rats ass about appearing biased? No matter what, Trump will claim the trial is biased. He claims it every day.

Edit: As a matter of fact, what you say about contempt fine disproportionately being leveled against the indigent is interesting. Clearly it would hurt them more than someone who is rich, so I suppose it would be more likely to change future behavior. At least that is how I imagine the practice would be defended. The fact that wealthy people exist would be the reason a judge has discretion to use jail time as punishment. People like Trump laugh at 3K in fines. Thirty days in jail? Not so much laughing there.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
phisheep

phisheep

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,928
Hearing 24 Apr on gag order violation. That's probably the first available date, being the first Wednesday after jury selection.
 
Fnor

Fnor

Member
Nov 7, 2023
473
Rogue74 said:
Thank you for the link.

This is what it says:


If I am reading that correctly, the statutory limit is $1000 if the judge wants to use a fine as punishment. But judges aren't limited to that. They can also jail someone for up to 30 days instead of, or in addition to, issuing a fine. And it says right there it is up to the discretion of the court.

So, I will stand by how I feel about this. The judge could be harsher if he wants to be. Who gives a rats ass about appearing biased? No matter what, Trump will claim the trial is biased. He claims it every day.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

That is true but imprisonment for contempt is an extreme, extreme, (cannot say this enough) extreme judicial response. Another commenter mentioned that this is often used as leverage for child support and other family law issues. As a sanction for a violation of a gag order, it would be unheard of.

The AG could ask for something more concrete, like an order of protection for specific people against defamatory or inciting statements, but that's an unwieldy tool. The better question is: do we want to break well-designed systems in order to punish Donald Trump? Is the satisfaction of punishing him disproportionately worth normalizing that sort of punishment?

What would be a better course of action, I think, is to admonish him that every statement will be a separate violation of the order. This is unusual but it does provide scale. Throwing a defendant in jail at the outset of a trial for speech, as bad as it is and even if it goes against court order, is an extreme last resort.
 
OP
OP
phisheep

phisheep

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,928
We're now into jury selection, with the first batch of 96 about to come in. There's about 200 prospective jurors here today.

Before that Judge Merchan was swiftly slapping down attempts to delay. For example Trump has 24 hours to designate defense exhibits, or he won't get any at all.
 
Rogue74

Rogue74

Member
Nov 13, 2017
1,780
Miami, FL
Fnor said:
That is true but imprisonment for contempt is an extreme, extreme, (cannot say this enough) extreme judicial response. Another commenter mentioned that this is often used as leverage for child support and other family law issues. As a sanction for a violation of a gag order, it would be unheard of.

The AG could ask for something more concrete, like an order of protection for specific people against defamatory or inciting statements, but that's an unwieldy tool. The better question is: do we want to break well-designed systems in order to punish Donald Trump? Is the satisfaction of punishing him disproportionately worth normalizing that sort of punishment?

What would be a better course of action, I think, is to admonish him that every statement will be a separate violation of the order. This is unusual but it does provide scale. Throwing a defendant in jail at the outset of a trial for speech, as bad as it is and even if it goes against court order, is an extreme last resort.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Fair enough. You are obviously an expert on the law ( I now nothing lol). I missed whether you are an attorney or not, but it seems like it. It is just frustrating. I'm salivating to see some real (non-monetary) consequences. I want to see the fear in his eyes.
 
OP
OP
phisheep

phisheep

Quis Custodiet Ipsos Custodes
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,928
Bear in mind that the £1k per tweet is not what the judge has decided, it is only what the DA has asked for. No-one should at this stage be blaming the judge for that.

As Fnor has pointed out, it is also the statutory maximum fine.

And it would, I think, be a pretty big incentive against repeated offending to know that you've already hit the max fine and the only escalation after that is prison. We'll know soon enough if Trump stops offending after today, and if he doesn't then that's another thing that can presumably be taken into account at the hearing next week.
 
Tacitus

Tacitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,059
fluffydelusions said:
Don't think they can do that. Too bad we aren't like Sweden (I believe that's the country) where fines are proportional to your income level.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
While day-fines scale to your income (they're roughly meant to equal lost income from getting jailed), not every fine-able offence gets a day-fine. Regular fines exist for smaller offences. Besides, if you have low income you can end up paying very little (they check your tax records, and we know he engages in fuckery with those).
 
HStallion

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
62,466
Honestly Trump continuing to fall asleep in court might hurt his image more than a lot of actual serious issues.
 
FrostweaveBandage

FrostweaveBandage

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Sep 27, 2019
6,931
If images come out of him sleeping in his chair he's going to be triggered. Double-digit posts on socials tonight about it.
 
Teh_Lurv

Teh_Lurv

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,118
And the QAnon fringe people will claim Trump isn't sleeping, he's astral-projecting into the 5th dimension to talk to the Zeta-Rectilians or something.
 
Euphoria

Euphoria

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,621
Earth
If he can't stay awake for a jury selection then what makes anyone think he can remain awake for meetings during ongoing conflict like we are experiencing now in the middle east?

This is the question that people need to ask.


Can't have Drowsy Don sleeping on the job.
 
Garp TXB

Garp TXB

Member
Apr 1, 2020
6,334
Euphoria said:
If he can't stay awake for a jury selection then what makes anyone think he can remain awake for meetings during ongoing conflict like we are experiencing now in the middle east?

This is the question that people need to ask.


Can't have Drowsy Don sleeping on the job.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It would probably be safer for everyone if he did sleep. He'd do far more damage awake
 
Fnor

Fnor

Member
Nov 7, 2023
473
It's not a great impression for the juror panels but I honestly cannot blame a senior defendant falling asleep during voir dire. Imagine the most boring thing you have ever experienced. Now think of something twice as boring as that. That's voir dire for the attorneys. Think of something five times as boring. That's voir dire for the jurors and parties. A prosecutor once told me that their entire voir dire strategy was to find the jurors most likely to stay awake during the trial by seeing which ones could stay awake during voir dire.

It is so. boring.
 
Version 3.0

Version 3.0

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,349
Fnor said:
It's not a great impression for the juror panels but I honestly cannot blame a senior defendant falling asleep during voir dire. Imagine the most boring thing you have ever experienced. Now think of something twice as boring as that. That's voir dire for the attorneys. Think of something five times as boring. That's voir dire for the jurors and parties. A prosecutor once told me that their entire voir dire strategy was to find the jurors most likely to stay awake during the trial by seeing which ones could stay awake during voir dire.

It is so. boring.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Can you bring a book? I mean, that wouldn't work for Dummie Donny since he doesn't have the mental capacity to get through one. But just asking in case I ever get stuck in a trial for my many election slash pornstar payoff-related crimes.
 
Reader mode
You must log in or register to reply here.