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TheAbsolution

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,391
Atlanta, GA
I thought this video from Carwow was pretty interesting and I thought I'd share the results to see what people thought.
Of course, Tesla is still the king here but very surprising to me what came in second.


If you don't want to watch the whole 30 minute video, here are the results in spoilers.
6. Mercedes : 194 miles = 312km
5. Audi : 206 miles = 331km
4. Nissan : 208 miles = 334km
3. Jaguar : 223 miles = 358km
2. Kia : 255 miles = 410km
1. Tesla : 270 miles = 434km
 

Bad_Boy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,624
Kia been stepping their game up for a while.

They need to make an electric stinger and im sold.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,506
Can't watch at the moment, how far do the manufacturers claim they'll go on a charge? Need that info to give these distances some context.
 
OP
OP
TheAbsolution

TheAbsolution

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,391
Atlanta, GA
Can't watch at the moment, how far do the manufacturers claim they'll go on a charge? Need that info to give these distances some context.
There's too many cars here for me to do the research (Also it's late where I am lol) so I'll just post the percentage of claimed range that comes from the video.
Mercedes - 75% of claimed range
Audi - 81%
Nissan - 87%
I-pace - 76%
Kia - 90%
Tesla - 78%
 

Lucreto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,646
Can't watch the video yet but I would be interested on how they performed the tests. Lights off, constant speed etc. My boss has a Tesla and he had to drive a constant speed or the car would not make its destination.

Still I would prefer hydrogen power cars instead.
 

Mr Swine

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
6,045
Sweden
Can't watch the video yet but I would be interested on how they performed the tests. Lights off, constant speed etc. My boss has a Tesla and he had to drive a constant speed or the car would not make its destination.

Still I would prefer hydrogen power cars instead.

Can I interest you in Horse powered cars?
 

eisschollee

Member
Oct 25, 2018
355
There's too many cars here for me to do the research (Also it's late where I am lol) so I'll just post the percentage of claimed range that comes from the video.
Mercedes - 75% of claimed range
Audi - 81%
Nissan - 87%
I-pace - 76%
Kia - 90%
Tesla - 78%

But based on the percentage of range , Tesla is not #1 ?
More #3 , but i would argue 20% less then promised range i kind a hard to sell...
 

Yankee Ruin X

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,687
If you watch the video though once the batteries get low they start driving round car parks and things like that until they run out of electricity. The Tesla was the last one still going and he was driving round in circles for hours in this little car park so not sure I would class this as it's final range as driving at 5mph in circles is not going to be very efficient.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,573
I've been kicking around the idea of getting a Kona electric for a little while now. Would've been interested in seeing how one fared.
 

eisschollee

Member
Oct 25, 2018
355
If you watch the video though once the batteries get low they start driving round car parks and things like that until they run out of electricity. The Tesla was the last one still going and he was driving round in circles for hours in this little car park so not sure I would class this as it's final range as driving at 5mph in circles is not going to be very efficient.

Disclaimer: I did not watch the video yet!

Actually , I would extend the range of a car if you go as slow as possible. Wind drag increases by the power of two with velocity.
If the a went for the same circles it should be comparable?
 

Herne

Member
Dec 10, 2017
5,321
When it comes to the claimed ranges, it should be noted that most of the cars started their journey out on around 90-95% charge, not the full 100%. Not sure how much that'll affect their range in the end, but it's worth pointing out (as the guy does at the start of the video).
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,896
Can't watch the video yet but I would be interested on how they performed the tests. Lights off, constant speed etc. My boss has a Tesla and he had to drive a constant speed or the car would not make its destination.

Still I would prefer hydrogen power cars instead.

higher speed = more power drain.

Going 100km/h vs 130km/h is 30% increased power usage, thanks to regenerative breaking constant speed isn't as much of a factor.
 

darz1

Member
Dec 18, 2017
7,104
Can't watch the video yet but I would be interested on how they performed the tests. Lights off, constant speed etc. My boss has a Tesla and he had to drive a constant speed or the car would not make its destination.

Still I would prefer hydrogen power cars instead.
Lmao. If this isn't a bunch of bullshit, I dont know what is
 

antonz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,309
Good Video. Its nice to see the EV industry expand. Tesla does have one hell of an advantage that should hopefully force the others to work on improving
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,896
That would be more than 30% just because of the increased drag which squares with speed.

Just getting the numbers from here, it's pretty close to a 30% increase going from ~100km/h to 130km/h. (at least for the model 3)

3-km-912.png
 

danowat

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,783
The range doesn't bother me, I rarely do a journey over 30-40 miles, just want to prices to come down.
 

philipnorth

Member
Oct 31, 2017
554
A shame they didnt include the Kona, however other real world tests show that it performs equal or better than the Kia.

We're also in the market for an EVv, and the Kona/Niro are definitely on there. Especially since their range is bigger than the similar priced model 3 SR+.

VW id3 is also there, but not available yet. And it takes forever for the Kona and Niro to be available here.
 

Rocket Man

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,509
Can't watch the video yet but I would be interested on how they performed the tests. Lights off, constant speed etc. My boss has a Tesla and he had to drive a constant speed or the car would not make its destination.

Still I would prefer hydrogen power cars instead.

Wait...what? How far and fast was he driving. Also, hydrogen infrastructure isn't even close to being ready (if it ever will). Even in California the pumps are sporadic, and often times not even working. Not to mention more expensive than gas and not that great milage.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,905
It's shocking to me that regular car companies had years to copy Tesla and this is the best they can come up with.

They don't want to upset their successful ICE car business. Tesla has no such problem.

So their investment in EVs is limited as is the production as batteries are supply constrained.
 

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,518
They don't want to upset their successful ICE car business. Tesla has no such problem.

So their investment in EVs is limited as is the production as batteries are supply constrained.

It's madness really, because all they're doing is letting Tesla get entrenched. If there was a really good electric competitor a year ago, Tesla would be dead right now. But now Tesla is finally able to execute reliable manufacturing and is making a profit. And every month that goes by without a credible Model 3 competitor makes them more likely to stick around.

I guess with the bonus payouts the decision makers are getting, the short term profit trumps the long term stability of their own companies.
 

mescalineeyes

Banned
May 12, 2018
4,444
Vienna
It's madness really, because all they're doing is letting Tesla get entrenched. If there was a really good electric competitor a year ago, Tesla would be dead right now. But now Tesla is finally able to execute reliable manufacturing and is making a profit. And every month that goes by without a credible Model 3 competitor makes them more likely to stick around.

I guess with the bonus payouts the decision makers are getting, the short term profit trumps the long term stability of their own companies.

this

idiots honestly.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,896
It's madness really, because all they're doing is letting Tesla get entrenched. If there was a really good electric competitor a year ago, Tesla would be dead right now. But now Tesla is finally able to execute reliable manufacturing and is making a profit. And every month that goes by without a credible Model 3 competitor makes them more likely to stick around.

I guess with the bonus payouts the decision makers are getting, the short term profit trumps the long term stability of their own companies.

It's easier said than done, battery R&D takes a long time. At this point Tesla is years ahead in tech, and you see companies like Mercedes struggling with cars like the EQC because Tesla bought out one of the battery manufacturers they were relying on for their battery supply.

Fine by me though, I really like Tesla's products and I want them to stick around and be successful.
 

Fatoy

Member
Mar 13, 2019
7,244
What's your daily?
Top line budget?
Can you home charge?

EVs are super approachable yesterday.
Small battery EVs are "approachable" insofar as they're a lot more expensive than regular small cars - at least in the UK - but still within the realms of affordability for average people, assuming they don't want the new Honda E, which is £30k. But electric SUVs of any meaningful size (i.e. bigger than the Kia e-Niro) are still ludicrously expensive. The Mercedes EQC and Jaguar i-Pace in that video cost more than £60k each, for the basic trims.

I can home charge, we drive about 250 miles a week, and I still opted for a hybrid (not plug-in) because prices are simply too high on EVs to offset the fuel saving.

EDIT: Also, the public charging infrastructure in the UK is still pretty crappy. Far too many different companies sharing the space, too many apps to download, and too little capacity on anything but Tesla's supercharger network. As far ahead as Tesla is in UX design, their killer feature is undoubtedly that charging network. It's not uncommon to see banks of unused Tesla superchargers at motorway services in the UK, and then two or three other charging stations - all occupied. I'd be fine waiting 40 minutes for my car to quick-charge to 80%, but I don't fancy waiting 40 minutes for a charger to become free, then a further 40 minutes to charge my car. I'm adding almost an hour and a half to my journey that way, whereas an ICE car would probably get me there on one tank, or with a 5-minute stop.

So yeah, if I was buying an EV, I'd probably be getting a Tesla. But I can't, because the Model X costs over £100,000. And to be clear, I understand why it's expensive. If I was running Tesla, I'd make it expensive too.

EVs will be what I'd call approachable in another three years or so, provided the major petrol / diesel companies install banks of chargers, that they own and administer payments for, in their petrol stations in that time. And provided more in the way of mid-size cars with BEV powertrains are released under the £40k bracket.
 
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sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,518
It's easier said than done, battery R&D takes a long time. At this point Tesla is years ahead in tech, and you see companies like Mercedes struggling with cars like the EQC because Tesla bought out one of the battery manufacturers they were relying on for their battery supply.

Fine by me though, I really like Tesla's products and I want them to stick around and be successful.

I know it's easier said then done, it would cost a lot of money to quickly catch up to Tesla and once they did they'd cannibalise their own ICE cars which would be more profitable in the short term.

But a lot of these companies have this money but don't want to eat the short term losses.
 

TechnicPuppet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,840
I'm about to go from a plug in hybrid that I use electric in most of the time back to ICE. I'm still hopeful a deal will pop up but it seems unlikely now.

Just too expensive and I had major issues over Xmas with the car and charger that haven't been resolved.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,433
Watched this a little while ago, the thing that amazed me most was the number of charging stations there are in the UK now, I had no idea.

The fact some of them aren't push-able when they are dead is crazy to me, such an obvious flaw in a car you can't get running again with a jerry can.
 

Fatoy

Member
Mar 13, 2019
7,244
Watched this a little while ago, the thing that amazed me most was the number of charging stations there are in the UK now, I had no idea.
It's cool and all, but it's also a crowded space; there are something like 20 different charging station providers, and while they use standard CCS plugs, there's zero standardisation on payment and accounts.

I see this is a massive advantage for Tesla, since arriving at a supercharger station is no more involved than plugging your car in and grabbing a coffee. In any non-Tesla vehicle, you're vying for space on a much smaller group of charging stations, and hoping you have the right app installed, or you're carrying the right contactless card, to actually pay.
 

Ryno23

Banned
Dec 13, 2017
1,097
It's easier said than done, battery R&D takes a long time. At this point Tesla is years ahead in tech, and you see companies like Mercedes struggling with cars like the EQC because Tesla bought out one of the battery manufacturers they were relying on for their battery supply.

Fine by me though, I really like Tesla's products and I want them to stick around and be successful.

That was a company that made machinery to produce battery cell lines, not an actual battery manufacturer, and it took place in Nov 2016 and was finalized in Jan 2017. Mercedes is using that as an excuse in.... 2020. It's just a bullshit to cover up their half assed pathetic attempt at EVs.
 

captainmal01

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,340
When it comes to the claimed ranges, it should be noted that most of the cars started their journey out on around 90-95% charge, not the full 100%. Not sure how much that'll affect their range in the end, but it's worth pointing out (as the guy does at the start of the video).

Slight correction, he states they all start above 95%, so it's good enough I'd say.
 

DBT85

Resident Thread Mechanic
Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,311
Small battery EVs are "approachable" insofar as they're a lot more expensive than regular small cars - at least in the UK - but still within the realms of affordability for average people, assuming they don't want the new Honda E, which is £30k. But electric SUVs of any meaningful size (i.e. bigger than the Kia e-Niro) are still ludicrously expensive. The Mercedes EQC and Jaguar i-Pace in that video cost more than £60k each, for the basic trims.

I can home charge, we drive about 250 miles a week, and I still opted for a hybrid (not plug-in) because prices are simply too high on EVs to offset the fuel saving.

EDIT: Also, the public charging infrastructure in the UK is still pretty crappy. Far too many different companies sharing the space, too many apps to download, and too little capacity on anything but Tesla's supercharger network. As far ahead as Tesla is in UX design, their killer feature is undoubtedly that charging network. It's not uncommon to see banks of unused Tesla superchargers at motorway services in the UK, and then two or three other charging stations - all occupied. I'd be fine waiting 40 minutes for my car to quick-charge to 80%, but I don't fancy waiting 40 minutes for a charger to become free, then a further 40 minutes to charge my car. I'm adding almost an hour and a half to my journey that way, whereas an ICE car would probably get me there on one tank, or with a 5-minute stop.

So yeah, if I was buying an EV, I'd probably be getting a Tesla. But I can't, because the Model X costs over £100,000. And to be clear, I understand why it's expensive. If I was running Tesla, I'd make it expensive too.

EVs will be what I'd call approachable in another three years or so, provided the major petrol / diesel companies install banks of chargers, that they own and administer payments for, in their petrol stations in that time. And provided more in the way of mid-size cars with BEV powertrains are released under the £40k bracket.
Exactly.

As soon as skoda put out an electric superb for £45k ill think about it. Until then there is nothing in the market that meets my needs and my budget.
 

Kinan

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
648
I was waiting for Mercedes, as it is my favourite manufacturer by a lot, but EQC is a dissapointment in so many aspects, especially in the efficiency. I also think it is time that people should start comparing efficiency instead of total range. Now it is like gazoline cars comparing who has a bigger tank. :p
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,094
It's cool and all, but it's also a crowded space; there are something like 20 different charging station providers, and while they use standard CCS plugs, there's zero standardisation on payment and accounts.

I see this is a massive advantage for Tesla, since arriving at a supercharger station is no more involved than plugging your car in and grabbing a coffee. In any non-Tesla vehicle, you're vying for space on a much smaller group of charging stations, and hoping you have the right app installed, or you're carrying the right contactless card, to actually pay.

youd Think they would group together to have one standard. Eg register with your dealer and payment is done by recognising the vehicle (I assume some kind of VIN/ID is shared via data connection when you hook up?) and confirming a payment card with the dealer or some other centralised system
 

Fatoy

Member
Mar 13, 2019
7,244
Exactly.

As soon as skoda put out an electric superb for £45k ill think about it. Until then there is nothing in the market that meets my needs and my budget.
Skoda's Vision IV also looks kind of promising in that it's about the size of car we, as a family of four, would be comfortable with. But given that a decent-spec petrol or diesel Kodiaq (which if anything is too big) will run you close to £40k today, there's no way that thing is releasing under £55k - with an additional £5k of options to get the version you actually want. Plus it's also adopted that coupe SUV style that gives you good ground clearance but compromised headroom. I really don't understand why that's a popular body style.

I picked three-to-four years because I reckon that's a fair amount of time for battery EV versions of mid-size cars from more mass market manufacturers to filter through: things like the Kia Sportage and VW Tiguan, which everyone seems to drive around here. For instance, my current lease is a Mazda CX-5, which expires in a few months' time. If Mazda did a battery EV version of the new CX-5 for, say, £40k, I'd be all over it. But instead, Mazda's first EV is much smaller and will probably end up costing more than £40k.

Four years is probably optimistic for resolving the charging issue. I've already mentioned that I can charge on my drive at home, but people who can't need to be able to pop down to the Shell or BP garage and plug in to make EV ownership viable. That's going to involve a pretty significant change to petrol stations - either relocating them to be closer to shops and restaurants, or converting them into places that people will want to be for up for an hour. Sticking a Costa machine in the corner won't cut it.

Maybe things are different in the US or the Nordic countries, but I think the biggest barrier to EV adoption - once the cars themselves get cheaper - is that need to turn charging spots into destinations. That's a big change, and unless we dig up all our terraced streets and put inductive charging pads underneath them, it's going to be necessary.
 

raYne_07

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,205
Seriously. Unless you really just can't live without the vroom vroom noises(grow up) , better in every single way
Or if you go on long trips, live in the middle of nowhere, need a larger vehicle, have no or limited supercharger acess, live in an apartment etc... You know, that stuff.