Cthulhu_Steev

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,431
Starmer will embarrass Sunak in a debate. He will come across over eager, child like and angry. Easy.

Sunak will just keep banging on about Corbyn and that note Labour left in 2010 ("I'm afraid there's no money") which was a tradition by outgoing governments - and you just know the Tories have been stewing about that for 14 years, and can't wait to write theirs.
 

Cudpug

Member
Nov 9, 2017
3,642
I feel like I'm slowly going mad.

The Tories are going in on the offensive but their words become increasingly hollow the longer they're in power.

How can you still blame Labour for everything when you've had the keys to the Kingdom for 15 years?

How can you tell us Labour will make our lives worse when just about everyone's lives have gotten worse since Tories took over (backed up by various datasets).

How can Rishi talk about change when he was senior in government under Boris? He's part of the problem.

What they're saying is so detached from reality. They really must think that we are stupid.
 

Arnor Frost

Member
May 18, 2024
391
I assume the Tories are coming out with this crap so that they can blame the scale of their upcoming defeat on Sunak?

I can't see all this simply to appeal to the GB news lot, none of them were going to vote for an British Indian prime minister anyway.
 

bremen

Member
Sep 22, 2020
1,657
I feel like I'm slowly going mad.

The Tories are going in on the offensive but their words become increasingly hollow the longer they're in power.

How can you still blame Labour for everything when you've had the keys to the Kingdom for 15 years?

How can you tell us Labour will make our lives worse when just about everyone's lives have gotten worse since Tories took over (backed up by various datasets).

How can Rishi talk about change when he was senior in government under Boris? He's part of the problem.

What they're saying is so detached from reality. They really must think that we are stupid.
Yep, the tories are pretty offensive alright!
 

Gareth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,939
Norn Iron

View: https://twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1795026559595630911

There is a lot of bad blood among Tory MPs - including from many members of the Cabinet - over Rishi Sunak's unilateral decision to call an early election

Sustaining party discipline will be challenging, especially in marginal seats

Steve Baker's criticism of Rishi Sunak's flagship national service scheme could be a sign of things to come
* Some say it has made their chances of holding onto their constituencies much lower - they simply haven't had enough time to prepare
* There are complaints that they haven't had enough time to raise the funding they need
* There is anger that Sunak went straight out to campaign without meeting MPs
* Cabinet ministers were completely cut of the picture - Sunak had already been to see the King when he told them about plan for July 4 election
* Some of them are on a fundamental level fearful about their own futures - they are really worried about their own livelihoods and those of their staff
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,733
I assume the Tories are coming out with this crap so that they can blame the scale of their upcoming defeat on Sunak?

I can't see all this simply to appeal to the GB news lot, none of them were going to vote for an British Indian prime minister anyway.

Nah, this is just Sunak flailing and looking for any policy that'll help him. If anything, those who want to see the Conservatives move further to the populist right in the future would rather he didn't salt the earth for this type of policy!
 

Cronen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,924
Boo fucking hoo. People have been worried about their futures for the last 14 years.
 

Pheonix Will

Member
Sep 6, 2021
1,395
Sunak will just keep banging on about Corbyn and that note Labour left in 2010 ("I'm afraid there's no money") which was a tradition by outgoing governments - and you just know the Tories have been stewing about that for 14 years, and can't wait to write theirs.

Starmer can just cut him off with I kicked Corbyn out of the Labour Party, which puts that genie back in the bottle.

But no I fully expect Starmer to wipe the floor with Sunak in a debate, Sunak is just as likely to start attacking the audience members asking questions than he is attack Starmer.
 

slider

Member
Nov 10, 2020
2,796
I gotto assume Sunak is thinking "fuck you, you back stabbing Jeremys (Jeremies?), I'll be OK sleeping on my 100s of millions... Try and do my legs and I'll do yours."

That's not to excuse his general atrociousness though. But it does seem like a an act of sabotage. Which makes me feel lovely.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,733
Starmer can just cut him off with I kicked Corbyn out of the Labour Party, which puts that genie back in the bottle.

But no I fully expect Starmer to wipe the floor with Sunak in a debate, Sunak is just as likely to start attacking the audience members asking questions than he is attack Starmer.

Yeah, part of me wishes Labour called the Tory bluff about wanting a televised debate every week (and make no mistake, it was a bluff). If PMQs is anything to go by, Sunak has absolutely nothing outside of his handful of pre-canned ad-hominems, which don't even hit home in the limited PMQ format, and would be absolutely demolished in a more open-ended debate setting.

But I get why they've resisted. Starmer's 'cowardice' was on the front pages of the right wing rags for barely a day, and the risk of a third party leader with nothing to lose making a name for themselves is too great (nobody wants 'Cleggmania' pt. 2).
 

Alent

"This guy are sick"
Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,813
Tories stop copying the US challenge; failed. Tories have an ounce of originality challenge; failed.
 

Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,860
I think we know that they are going to fully pivot post-election given what noteworthy MP's they'll have left. The issue for the tories (not for us) is that while we do live in a two-party system, there are still viable third party options to dilute votes. Just as the left has suffered through having multiple left-wing parties, the tories are going to have to compete with reform. A march rightward and away from the centre is going to lock them out of power.
 

Solitude

Member
Nov 11, 2020
976
If they're going to criticise Kier for being absent, was Sunak public facing yesterday? I don't recall seeing him anywhere.
 

Praxis

Sausage Tycoon
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,365
UK
We've done it. We have found the one person that thinks this is a good idea. Wow.

I don't think the Tory government (or anyone for that matter) is capable of implementing this in a way that's anywhere near successful and they're grasping at straws in desperation to find some extra votes. All I'm saying is it would've helped me as an 18 year old who was mixed up in a lot of bad shit living in a rural area with little to no prospects of a career and a selfish, immature and antisocial mindset.
 

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,315


While I imagine a bunch of these will be done in tandem overall... It still makes me imagine the possibility - however slim - of them not actually having a full roster come the election

Edit: And hell, with regards the national service thing, in the loosest and vaguest abstract, I don't think the notion is outright offensive. But it's not something you can just float without consideration and application for context - how it's done in the Baltic varies on a country by country basis, and of course none of them are having to do it with a population on the scale of the UK's. They are also far less likely to be involved overseas than anyone serving in the British military through such a scheme, so the moral implications of the service's existence differ. And of course, most such systems aren't new - though one could France as an example that is - so wider social infrastructure has had time to adjust for and account for it.

Sunak and co clearly haven't even figured out what it is they're actually wanting to do beyond 'Bring back national service', which is why the details have changed half a dozen times in the span of a weekend. Their conception of it is batshit, to be handled by an inept bunch of bellends, and as has been noted a few times, even the organisations that it would be ostensibly for aren't keen because there's nothing to actually make it remotely useful to them
 
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Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,836
Tories will be going to local pubs and finding the most racist regular there to fill seats.
 

Ganepark32

Member
Nov 21, 2021
1,814
I must say I'm finding this idea of compulsory national service that the Tories are throwing out rather amusing. At my high school, and many others in Edinburgh, you had to do compulsory 18 months of combined cadet force training as either part of the army, RAF or navy when you were 14 and let me tell you, it didn't knock any of the behaviours out many of those who did it (the number of times I'd see those in the army mishandling weapons, thankfully unloaded, was horrendous). So the idea that this'll set 18 year old straight is just nonsense.

The only thing I took away from it was a love of going sailing, kayaking or rock climbing as I picked the navy and that's pretty much all we did for the 18 months before passing out parade.

Thankfully, it's not something that will ever come to fruition as the Tories want.

But yeah, it's massively amusing to see them pretty much shoot themselves in the foot every day with something else that's just ridiculous.
 

Jokerman

Member
May 16, 2020
7,122
I don't think the Tory government (or anyone for that matter) is capable of implementing this in a way that's anywhere near successful and they're grasping at straws in desperation to find some extra votes. All I'm saying is it would've helped me as an 18 year old who was mixed up in a lot of bad shit living in a rural area with little to no prospects of a career and a selfish, immature and antisocial mindset.
Yeah but you can sign up and join an armed forces at that age too. It is the compulsory part people have issue with.
 

Brotherhood93

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,936
I thought Starmer's speech was pretty good. A lot better than what we're used to anyway.

It's pretty damning how the election was called entirely on the whims of the PM yet Labour are the only ones who appear ready for it.
 

discogs

Member
Oct 28, 2017
378
London
I thought Starmer's speech was pretty good. A lot better than what we're used to anyway.

It's pretty damning how the election was called entirely on the whims of the PM yet Labour are the only ones who appear ready for it.
I can see the post-election right wing narrative having an aspect of 'Sunak called it without telling us, left us unprepared!'. How the Tories will rationalise it. Of course there's also an element of them being an entitled lazy bunch of idiots that they'll happily ignore.
 

Brotherhood93

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,936
To be honest I didn't even realise Starmer was 61. I thought he was about 5 years younger. Certainly doesn't look older than the likes of Gove and Rees-Mogg Such a bizarre attack line because I doubt anyone looks at him thinks he looks too old to lead.
 

Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,937
Every time Sunak announces anything I'm like "Is this man trying to lose this as badly as possible on purpose" then I remember that no, this is a man who lost a leadership election to Liz Truss. He is actually just that incompetent.