UK School threatens legal action after Muslim girl told skirt is ‘too long’

[laoni]

This is dumb af. She's wearing the school colours, she's got the logo on her blazer, you -know- what school she's from. This stinks of her being singled out.

Here in Australia, all the schools I went to growing up we had uniforms, which they said the benefits were twofold. One was the conformity, everyone was on an even playing ground in terms of clothes so there wouldn't be bullying on what you were wearing (Common on casual clothes days.), and the second was the easy identification of your students when out in public, both for teachers and the town in general. Each school had its different colour conbinations and pretty much everyone knew which colour combination belonged to which school, so kids that got lost on field trips and that could be easily returned to the appropriate school and teachers could easily make sure they had all their kiddos.

But like...our rules were pretty much as simple as "Are you wearing the appropriate colours? Then you can acquire them from any source.", not the branded stuff like the article. We had branded clothes of course but they weren't mandatory, but we also had like little iron on patches if you -really- wanted the school logo on your shirt, and low income families could get subsidies or donations (there were regular drives from the school to collect the stuff kids had grown out of but were still in good nick to give to other families). And if you were having to go out to represent the school at a super fancy event, all of them would lend blazers to the students. Which, in my biased eyes, seems the right way to do things.

The private schools I've run into though, have rules more like this UK school, which, ugh, just feels like money grubbing on top of moneygrubbing

 

[texhnolyze]

Just say it directly then, "No Muslims allowed in our school!"

There, pretty much the same meaning.

 

[nekkid]

It just feels so conformist, like you're depriving children of individuality at an eraly age.

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So what you're saying is that it's better to show individuality through your clothes than your personality?

 

[Joni]

So what you're saying is that it's better to show individuality through your clothes than your personality?

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Showing individuality in clothes is part of someone's personality. Someone that shows up in gym clothes to work versus a coworker that shows up in suit and tie tells a lot about personalities.

 

[DeltaRed]

We had to wear uniforms at my school but everybody's personality shone through anyway, things can be worn in different ways, people have their own styles etc.

 

[Arilian]

so kids that got lost on field trips and that could be easily returned to the appropriate school and teachers could easily make sure they had all their kiddos.

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A kid could say their school name. And I hope teachers use a more robust way (liking counting them…) to know if all their children are still with them than just casually looking at their uniforms before thinking, 'all good, I only saw uniforms from my school'.

 

[rras1994]

A kid could say their school name. And I hope teachers use a more robust way (liking counting them…) to know if all their children are still with them than just casually looking at their uniforms before thinking, 'all good, I only saw uniforms from my school'.

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It's not just that it's used for, in my school they got a compliant that some of our pupils were being dicks to other passengers on public transport and they were able to narrow who they were from the uniform and go to the school to tell them what was happening. Besides the idea that teenagers shouldn't have uniforms because they need to be individual when the rest of the group of teenagers will mock you incessantly if you do anything outside the perceived norm is laughable. I always felt less judged by other students when I was wearing my uniform. And this case is really unusual, I went to a Grammar School were every piece of the uniform was branded or in a vivid colour that you were only going to get from local suppliers (they helped poorer students with funds if they couldn't afford it, and no one else would know about it) and they still allowed a girl to wear long grey skirt that wasn't even in the uniform colour because it was the closest she could get and it was her religious belief.

 

[hateradio]

Covid is raviging us all, but please hold my beer while I police your dress code.


Fucking humans. Not that policing your clothes should be predicated on anything ever.

 

[Grug]

School policy should be more flexible, obviously.

The "ban school uniforms" crew here though might be showing a little bit of socioeconomic privilege.

The data at the public school I teach at showed that student non-attendance increased appreciably on free dress days.

Uniforms eliminate another way for kids to be singled out for reasons beyond their control. Unless they are stupidly inflexible like in this situation.

 

[laoni]

A kid could say their school name. And I hope teachers use a more robust way (liking counting them…) to know if all their children are still with them than just casually looking at their uniforms before thinking, 'all good, I only saw uniforms from my school'.

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When most of your schools are (Town Name) (Compass Direction) there's confusion, especially among the youngest. And they also use the more robust methods, ofc. But if you're doing a quick glance as a checkup say, on a trail (We did a lot of buskwalks), you can easily go "Hey wait a second, there's one of my kids off the track" because bright red shirts with black bottoms is very distinctive against pretty much every backdrop, same like the other schools in my area that had bright yellow tops navy bottoms, blue tops maroon bottoms and green tops with white bottoms.

It's not just that it's used for, in my school they got a compliant that some of our pupils were being dicks to other passengers on public transport and they were able to narrow who they were from the uniform and go to the school to tell them what was happening.

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Yeah this came into play a lot too, kids were taken to school via a mix of dedicated school buses and standard public transport and multiple schools went on the one bus. So a way for the public to know what school to go to, but also for kids being bullied on those buses to find the school those kids went to.

 

[Litigator]

I hope the legal action backfires against the school and they get the book thrown at them. I don't know much about UK law, but isn't religious freedom part of the constitution/charter?

 

[endlessflood]

She should just wear the shorter skirt over the top of the longer one to give the school the finger.

I'm very much in favour of school uniforms, and it's ridiculous that a non-denominational school could have one that doesn't accomodate all major religions.

 

[rras1994]

I hope the legal action backfires against the school and they get the book thrown at them. I don't know much about UK law, but isn't religious freedom part of the constitution/charter?

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As part of the Equality Act religion is protected, only issue that might crop up is that the school could say the option of trousers could cover the modesty requirement? I don't know, sounds like the school's being weird cus not specific supplier but it was fine before rule change so I don't see what the big deal is

 

[Dirtyshubb]

Less chance for poorer students to feel out of place if everyone is wearing the same thing and it's not a fashion show. No one should feel bad going to learn because they're not wearing the latest brands or something.

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Instead they just have shitty, worn down uniforms because they cant afford to replace them.

I couldn't afford a blazer at school and had to have some hand me down one for the first 3 years of secondary school. The last 2 years I said fuck it and went without and luckily nothing was said but if they had caused a fuss that would have been at least £60 or more down the drain for my mum who was on benefits.

 

[Deleted member 21709]

Besides the insane issue with the skirt - it just horrifies me to think a school would sue one of their students.

 

[G_O]

Yeah it's ridiculous.

But school uniforms are important.

When I was a school kid we'd have non uniform days.
Where you'd donate £1 to charity and wear your own clothes.
Pretty much every time I was laughed at by tons of kids.
Because I was wearing poor people clothes.

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Its even worse when you are the only gobshite in an entire school who forgets its no uniform day

 

[Dache]

As part of the Equality Act religion is protected, only issue that might crop up is that the school could say the option of trousers could cover the modesty requirement? I don't know, sounds like the school's being weird cus not specific supplier but it was fine before rule change so I don't see what the big deal is

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All she needs to say is that they make her uncomfortable due to her religious beliefs (e.g they could be too tight and show off the shape of her legs too much) and the school loses the case. They can't win.

 

[Silvergun-Blue]

It just feels so conformist, like you're depriving children of individuality at an eraly age.

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It's worth pointing out that most of the time the uniform rules aren't particularly rigid. Where I'm from the only specific item that was required was the school tie. Everything else, shirt, jersey, trousers/skirt and shoes had a decent amount of discretion. Kids could still wear their hair how they wanted, have whatever bag they liked, etc.
As others have pointed out, it helps cut down on bullying. Wearing the latest trendy clothes is always gonna be a thing for kids and anybody who stands out as not being able to afford that often get treated pretty nastily. Children are viciously cruel.
Take it from somebody who has always gone their own way and isn't one to conform but also grew up poor as fuck, school uniforms are a good thing (within reason)

The situation described in the OP is clearly a case of a power tripping headmaster who is almost certainly bigoted. Not even fancy private schools that require specific uniform items would be that anal about a skirt being too long.

 

[Eoin]

That doesn't carry as much weight when the dress code involves wearing school branded clothes (as per the article), which generally aren't exactly cheap to begin with. Hell, some of my families school uniforms are notably more expensive than the clothes they usually wear.

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Perhaps worth noting here that there's a few strands of this discussion ongoing - there's the one about this school in particular but also a related (but separate) discussion about school uniforms as a concept. Although there's many people defending school uniforms, the people doing that are (mostly) not talking about this school's awful policy in particular.

 

[Arilian]

It's not just that it's used for, in my school they got a compliant that some of our pupils were being dicks to other passengers on public transport and they were able to narrow who they were from the uniform and go to the school to tell them what was happening.

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I don't think schools should police what kids do outside of school hours: if a kid don't behave in a bus/train, take it with their parents or call the police if the disturbance is serious enough.

 

[rras1994]

I don't think schools should police what kids do outside of school hours: if a kid don't behave in a bus/train, take it with their parents or call the police if the disturbance is serious enough.

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You think people are able to work out the names of the kids being dicks to them on public transport. You think the kids going to tell who their parents are? The police will not do anything about it. There's nothing wrong with schools checking what the children are doing on the way to school, it's only because of school that they are there in such large numbers to be dicks to other passengers. But then I am bitter cus I once got hit by a hockey stick on the head cus a pupil decided they wanted to be upstairs on the bus with their friends when their were no seats left and stood up and went flying when the bus stopped. It hurt. A lot. And that's just one of my stories from having the unfortunate luck of having the same bus line that had 3 high schools. And I didn't even tell on them to the schools though there were multiple times I felt tempted. I wouldn't blame some of the old ladies who got hassled out of the way by the waves of students if they did.

 

[DryCreek]

.

 

[Redcrayon]

I don't think schools should police what kids do outside of school hours: if a kid don't behave in a bus/train, take it with their parents or call the police if the disturbance is serious enough.

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When large amounts of children all from the same school use the same local bus routes/train between 8 and 9am and 3.30-4.30pm, I can understand why schools consider it a matter of reputation that pupils behave as a student body while commuting, rather than hoping parents hear about and deal with it on an individual basis. The police also aren't going to get involved for schoolkids messing around on the train (although the transport police might just tell them to cool it if they happen to be on board, which is unlikely, they are far more likely to just tell the school if they hear about it). Getting a local rep for doing nothing to cut down on bullying between pupils on public transport, and for the school population to have a rep of misbehaviour as a whole, is not in the school's interest. It's ultimately pretty obvious which school the kids on a certain route are going to when they all get off at the same stop in the morning, which makes addressing that behaviour in school assemblys etc much easier if it's reached a point where it's the school as a whole being seen as a problem.

They can then make sure all kids know who they can talk to if they are being bullied/harassed/see other kids doing really stupid stuff, and get an email out to all parents about more minor stuff in a matter of minutes (I get several a week about various stuff from my daughter's school). Where it's low-level disorder like that (not talking about constant bullying), getting all the staff and parents to try and address it holistically is an easier way to handle it for all relevant adults. Rather than try and pinpoint which exact child out of hundreds did whatever minor disruptive thing out of dozens that is just kids being kids but needs cooling down if the student body as a whole is making travel a nightmare for other kids/passengers/the bus drivers etc. Uniform also means that major stuff like bullying and violence is way more likely to have witnesses get info to at least the right school, who can then investigate and take it up privately with the parents.

An individual passenger is incredibly unlikely to be able to take misbehaviour on a bus/train up with either the police or the parents of a specific kid when secondary schools can easily have over a thousand kids. The school, if identifiable, is way more likely to be able to narrow it down though.

 

[endlessflood]

I don't think schools should police what kids do outside of school hours: if a kid don't behave in a bus/train, take it with their parents or call the police if the disturbance is serious enough.

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At my school you were expected to behave whenever you were wearing the uniform, and god help you if you didn't.

People on public transport who saw you doing anything untoward would call the school, and there would be an announcement over the PA: "any students who caught the route 414 bus to school this morning are to report to L28 at recess." And they would sit you down until you confessed or someone ratted you out. And someone would always confess or be ratted out.

 

[Thorrgal]

Yeah it's ridiculous.

But school uniforms are important.

When I was a school kid we'd have non uniform days.
Where you'd donate £1 to charity and wear your own clothes.
Pretty much every time I was laughed at by tons of kids.
Because I was wearing poor people clothes.

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Exactly, came to say this.

 

[The Albatross]

Nope uniforms are awesome. Parent here.

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Yeah, I get how it makes getting dressed easier, can be egalitarian, and as a parent would make mornings go a lot smoother as I'm having open debate with my 2.5 year old whether she can wear pajamas or has to wear real pants.

But ... at the same time this is a thread about religious civil liberties being denied to a minority because of overly restrictive student uniforms and I can't imagine it's the first time ... sooooooooo

 

[Eoin]

Bit of a necro-bump, but the reason for it is that it took the school this fucking long to release how stupid they were being, and drop the legal action:

School drops legal action after Muslim girl told her skirt was too long

Exclusive: Siham Hamud’s father says he is pleased Uxbridge high school listened to the family’s concerns

www.theguardian.com