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signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,268

America's cities are being bought up, bit by bit, by anonymous shell companies using piles of cash. Modest single-family homes, owned for generations by families, now are held by corporate vehicles with names that appear to be little more than jumbles of letters and punctuation – such as SC-TUSCA LLC, CNS1975 LLC – registered to law offices and post office boxes miles away. New glittering towers filled with owned but empty condos look down over our cities, as residents below struggle to find any available housing.

All-cash transactions have come to account for a quarter of all residential real estate purchases, "totaling hundreds of billions of dollars nationwide," the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network – the financial crimes unit of the federal Treasury Department, also known as FinCEN – noted in a 2017 news release. Thanks to the Bank Secrecy Act, a 1970 anti-money-laundering law, the agency is able to learn who owns many of these properties. In high-cost cities such as New York, San Francisco, Los Angeles and Miami, it's flagged over 30% of cash purchases as suspicious transactions. But FinCEN also cites this bill to hide this information from the public, leaving the American people increasingly in the dark about who owns their cities.
The Census Bureau reports that nearly 3 million U.S. homes and 13 million apartment units are owned by LLC, LLP, LP or shell companies – levels of anonymous ownership not seen in American history. The proportion of residential rental properties owned by individuals and families has fallen from 92% in 1991 to 74% in 2015.

The lack of transparency not only represents an opportunity for money laundering, but it also has more prosaic implications. First-time homebuyers are denied the opportunity to buy affordable homes with bank loans because those properties already have been scooped up by shell companies. Tenants can't figure out to whom to complain when something goes wrong. Local officials don't know whom to hold responsible for code violations and neighborhood blight.
With anonymity comes impunity, and, for vulnerable tenants, skyrocketing numbers of evictions. It wasn't until reporters from The Guardian and The Washington Post began to investigate, for example, that residents living in hundreds of properties across the South learned that they shared a secret landlord, hiding behind names such as SPMK X GA LLC: Fox News personality Sean Hannity. "Among the tenants Hannity's property managers sought to evict," The Post reported, were "a double amputee who had lived in an apartment with her daughter for five years but did not pay on time after being hospitalized; and a single mother of three whose $980 rent check was rejected because she could not come up with a $1,050 cleaning fee for a bedbug infestation."

But while the public remains in the dark, one part of the government knows the people behind these shell companies. Since 2016, FinCEN has issued geographic targeting orders requiring that the "beneficial owners" of residential real estate bought with cash be disclosed. The Treasury police started with six metro areas, then expanded to nine – running from Los Angeles to New York, Miami to Seattle. Yet FinCEN insists on keeping that information secret.
In July, Reveal from The Center for Investigative Reporting filed a Freedom of Information Act request seeking information on the "beneficial owners" of LLCs. We asked for the addresses of all residential real estate purchased with cash, where FinCEN was aware; the amount of money transferred; the name and address of the true, human owners behind each residential real estate purchase; the name of the person responsible for purchasing the property; and the individuals responsible for representing the purchasers – all information currently held by FinCEN but not collected under the Bank Secrecy Act.

In response, the government initially refused to even acknowledge that it has this information, saying it could "neither confirm nor deny the existence of the materials," citing the Bank Secrecy Act. But when Congress passed that law in 1970, it never intended that it be used to keep the owners of residential real estate from the public. Without a doubt, financial institutions and the government have to keep some information secret – individual consumers' Social Security numbers, for example. But the name of somebody who owns a building – that's completely different.
"The public and the press have a clear and abiding interest in knowing who owns property in their communities," the complaint states, "and keeping public officials accountable in their handling of this matter."

There is no compelling reason to keep this information secret. Historically, in the United States, the true owners of residential real estate properties have been publicly available through county recorders offices. However, for more than a decade, the proliferation of all-cash buys by shell companies has begun to obliterate that transparency. Countries around the world have addressed this problem head on. In Argentina, Australia, Israel, Jamaica and the Netherlands, any member of the public may request this information. In Russia and Ukraine, it is already online. Public disclosure is coming even to some notorious tax shelters, including the Cayman Islands, officials in the United Kingdom say, in 2021.

In the United States, we're on no such path to disclosure. A bipartisan anti-money-laundering bill, which passed the House in October, would require banks to systematically disclose the true owners of shell companies to FinCEN but would keep the public in the dark, stripping out all "personally identifiable information," including anything "that would allow for the identification of a particular corporation or limited liability company."


Better article title might be "the prevention of unmasking" but whatever. Not sure which countries have great solutions to this. Vancouver has an empty homes tax but don't know how well that works:

 
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leder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,111
This is a huge issue in the PNW that nobody wants to talk about because it inflates their home values. One of the leading (extremely woke leftists) candidates in the last Seattle mayoral race got smeared as a racist when she dared mention that tons of real estate in the area is being bought sight unseen with all cash offers by foreign buyers through proxies. Despite houses averaging ~800k here, over 40% of transactions are all cash. Even DINK Amazon couples don't have that just lying around.
 
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antonz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,309
Chinese Investors are a huge percentage of it and it completely destroys the local economy for actual Americans.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,675
This is a world wide issue.

I live in Germany and I'm increasingly disgusted with the housing situation. It's ridiculous and the government is completely ineffective to combat it (as usual).
 

antonz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,309
I've heard this a lot in California. Unsure how true it is though.
China has been on a massive buying spree since the 2008 Financial Crisis. The Trade War trump started has slowed Chinese Buyers but at its peak they were buying up close to 35 billion dollars worth of residential property a year. Seattle, Bay Area etc. are all massive investment zones. Between 2009 and 2016 the average price of a house in Seattle doubled.
 

desu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
539
I think this is not a problem isolated to America, it is happening all around the world?
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
I've heard this a lot in California. Unsure how true it is though.
It's a big problem but it's not THE problem, if that makes sense. It contributes, but in an economy where people just built enough houses the incentive to do this would be both vastly reduced and also not warp the local housing markets nearly as much.
 

Illusion

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,407
Chinese Investors are a huge percentage of it and it completely destroys the local economy for actual Americans.
I've caught onto this in certain cities. So many empty apartment buildings because they are all overpriced or waiting for a boom in the area to happen.

Landowners would rather not have anyone occupy their land then have tenants who would pay a actual reasonable cost.
 

Geoff

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,115
Chinese buyers are/were a big problem in London too. A few years ago there were loads of tales of new developments of flats down by the river being bought sight-unseen and off plan by investors in China who would just add them to their portfolios ready to flip when the time was right. Not even rented out. Whole developments that were ghost towns. First time buyers being outbid on family homes by people who had never seen the property in person.

That's probably ameliorated recently because London prices are now slumping re: Brexit.
 

3bdelilah

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,615
How about we put a law into effect that prohibits people from buying property for leasing/renting purposes, or better yet, owning more than one property? If you yourself don't live in said property for a certain period of time per year, you're not allowed to buy it. It should be as simple as that.

If we want to be serious about combating homelessness or the concept of housing for all in general, we have to take a stance against these parasites of society.
 

Ryu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,316
Same system where I live right now. People have more and more issues affording their homes. But oh well, surely good for the economy if all those rich kids buy up houses and let them stay empty. Like, not only politics should do something about it, also retail companies will need to act. Just imagine having empty districts (is already happening and growing!) where in the future no retail is needed anymore, because oh well right? No renters, no need to have food there anyway?
 

Zombine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,231
Chinese investors are buying up property left and right through LLCs and leaving them abandoned. It causes a lot of issues in neighborhoods and it's impossible to actually find these guys.
 

Prof. Booty

Banned
Jan 1, 2020
106
I've been hearing for 20+ years that the Chinese will and are buying up and owning most real estate and/or factories/companies around the world.
I've actually worked for a HUGE metal fabrications company that went under, then was saved, by the Chinese. They cut the staff by 90% and brought in thousands of workers who would work 16 hour days. The place did and still does run (barely) and rumor was/is that it's used as a tax break by the Chinese.

At some point I think were gonna have to realize they are vastly, if not currently, the dominate country in the world today.
 

Jisgsaw

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,404
How about we put a law into effect that prohibits people from buying property for leasing/renting purposes, or better yet, owning more than one property? If you yourself don't live in said property for a certain period of time per year, you're not allowed to buy it. It should be as simple as that.

If we want to be serious about combating homelessness or the concept of housing for all in general, we have to take a stance against these parasites of society.
... But then from where would apparentment for rent come?
It's not really feasible to force people to buy home instead of renting. For example I would never buy in my current city, as I know I'm moving to another city in less than a year.
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
18,507
What can be done about this? Barring people who aren't citizens from owning a certain amount of property?

How about you have to personally inspect any property you own, in person, every 2 years or so (like a vehicle registration) while accompanied by a representative of the local government to make sure everything is on the up and up? If things aren't up to code? Tax. If the property isn't being used at all? Tax.

Sure, an LLC might just send a legal representative, but dude is still going to have to travel to, and vouch for, hundreds of properties right?

More extreme? Maybe cap the % of units that can be owned by LLCs vs individuals. If we can have draconian liquor license laws and cab medallions in major cities, surely the same could be done for housing.
 

Deleted member 43514

User requested account closure
Banned
May 16, 2018
301
Chinese buyers are/were a big problem in London too. A few years ago there were loads of tales of new developments of flats down by the river being bought sight-unseen and off plan by investors in China who would just add them to their portfolios ready to flip when the time was right. Not even rented out. Whole developments that were ghost towns. First time buyers being outbid on family homes by people who had never seen the property in person.

That's probably ameliorated recently because London prices are now slumping re: Brexit.

Trudeau stopped that shit in Vancouver for the most part (since you have to live in Canada 180 days a year now) but the damage is done.
My friend from Guangzhou whose father is high up in the provincial government said a lot of it is tax evasion and money laundering.

Xi kills people like insects for corruption and embezzlement and Xi passed a FATCA like law a year or two ago but two countries that are very helpful in its avoidance of enforcement are the USA and Germany.

Seattle in particular is going to be the next Vancouver I believe. The Chinese are getting smarter about it. Seattle, in particular, has the least expensive median home price on the West Coast of the United States, and more Mainland Chinese are also leveraging debt to make their purchase in the states, taking out mortgages instead of paying in cash. They also are flipping properties in months instead of years like they did in Vancouver
 

Hanuli

Member
Oct 28, 2017
169
Finland
How about we put a law into effect that prohibits people from buying property for leasing/renting purposes, or better yet, owning more than one property? If you yourself don't live in said property for a certain period of time per year, you're not allowed to buy it. It should be as simple as that.

If we want to be serious about combating homelessness or the concept of housing for all in general, we have to take a stance against these parasites of society.
This sounds good!

... But then from where would apparentment for rent come?
It's not really feasible to force people to buy home instead of renting. For example I would never buy in my current city, as I know I'm moving to another city in less than a year.

How about the company that build the property leases the building until they have made a certain amount of profit from leasing it? Afterwards the building becomes public property and the government will continue to lease it?
 
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Spaltazar

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,105
just take their property lol. they will come out of the woodwork then i guess. someone needs to manage that shit, right?
 

Culex

Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,897
This is a big problem for banking. The Secretary of State for most states will only show members of LLC's, or sometime not at all(Delaware). Unless we have actual return showing the true % ownership, it's a slippery slope.

Can't tell you how many business accounts I've dealt with where the LLC owner is another LLC.
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,320
Gentrified Brooklyn
It's money laundering, pure and simple. Russia, China etc...if you're in a place where your currency is in flux/economy is shitty and you got your shit through legit or shady means, dump the cash into real estate in the West. Hell, even your local bad dudes are able to take advantage; you wire 10k in the US you gotta fill out a form but an LLC paying a million in cash outta nowhere and nobody blinks an eye. There's so much of it but since rich people and real estate love it its going nowhere.
 

3bdelilah

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,615
... But then from where would apparentment for rent come?
It's not really feasible to force people to buy home instead of renting. For example I would never buy in my current city, as I know I'm moving to another city in less than a year.

State-owned public housing or heavily regulated social housing. In both instances there would be a strict rent control, or preferably even no profit at all. Income generated through rent would be regarded as taxes, and find their way back to the people one way or the other (like healthcare, infrastructure, education, etc.).

I find the concept of making a profit on basic necessities to be quite disgusting, and that's me putting it rather mildly.
 

Tobor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,751
Richmond, VA
I know people hate HOA's, but this where they can prove incredibly useful.

My HOA for example has a clause that anyone buying a home has to live in it as the primary residence for a period of time before it can be rented. That shuts out these shell companies.
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,866
How about we put a law into effect that prohibits people from buying property for leasing/renting purposes, or better yet, owning more than one property? If you yourself don't live in said property for a certain period of time per year, you're not allowed to buy it. It should be as simple as that.

If we want to be serious about combating homelessness or the concept of housing for all in general, we have to take a stance against these parasites of society.
You want the whole country to function as a co-op? This seems like a dramatic reaction to something that wasn't a problem just 30 years ago.
 

3bdelilah

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,615
You want the whole country to function as a co-op? This seems like a dramatic reaction to something that wasn't a problem just 30 years ago.
There are other issues now that didn't exist 30 years ago. But it's a problem now, and the dramatic reaction is warranted seeing as it'll get much worse. If things changed this quickly in 30 years, just imagine what another 30 would do. Especially with the increasing wealth and income inequality, many people won't be able to afford the place they currently live in.

It might be dramatic, but like many diseases, if left untreated or just partly treated, the infection gets another chance to spread.
 

Fatoy

Member
Mar 13, 2019
7,267
Chinese buyers are/were a big problem in London too. A few years ago there were loads of tales of new developments of flats down by the river being bought sight-unseen and off plan by investors in China who would just add them to their portfolios ready to flip when the time was right. Not even rented out. Whole developments that were ghost towns. First time buyers being outbid on family homes by people who had never seen the property in person.

That's probably ameliorated recently because London prices are now slumping re: Brexit.
I think this trend just moved to Manchester. A large percentage of the apartments around the BBC's Media City development are empty and owned by people overseas. Or Chinese buyers purchase them off-plan, send their children to University of Manchester so they can live rent-free, and then sell the apartments afterwards.
 

Deleted member 203

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,899
Nationalize all housing. rent's getting fucking ridiculous literally anywhere where people actually want to/need to (for work) live.
 

Zulith

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,780
West Coast, USA
Land of the free, when even Russia is leading the charge on something so obviously fundamental and the USA refuses to wake up to the massive foreign buying spree going on in our bigger citties all the while homelessness is rampant and most young adults can not buy a home anywhere near where the jobs are anymore.

Government needs to get into the housing business in a big way, how else can we force affordable housing? I wish we could regulate our way out of it but I've yet to see any of those efforts make a dent.
 
Oct 26, 2017
12,125
Seriously! I'm looking to moving outside of Cleveland (Buying a house) but looked at apartments if I couldn't find a house on time and was shocked at freaking Cleveland prices.
Notice how most of the new apartments are "filled" within a month of construction.

Now look at the lights on at night. Most of them are always off, because they are empty units.

And that are building more, time and repeat.

Then look at the construction companies, more and more of the workers are fob from China.

So you can assume that work 14+ hours, for 10% the pay and cut corners everywhere
 
OP
OP
signal

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,268

3bdelilah

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,615
Land of the free, when even Russia is leading the charge on something so obviously fundamental and the USA refuses to wake up to the massive foreign buying spree going on in our bigger citties all the while homelessness is rampant and most young adults can not buy a home anywhere near where the jobs are anymore.

Government needs to get into the housing business in a big way, how else can we force affordable housing? I wish we could regulate our way out of it but I've yet to see any of those efforts make a dent.

"Anti-communism as a national religion" - as Naom Chomsky and Edward Herman put it - is a bitch. Even though the Cold War has officially long ended, we continue to hear that the "threat of communism" is still very much alive. Just take one glance to the Republican Party and even some Democrats. Every bill proposal that opts for more government actions to intervene in unbridled capitalism is instantly branded "communist, anti-business, and anti-American".

Universal healthcare? Fuck that, I want to pay more so others get less. Public housing on a national scale? Throw that shit away. Paying more progressive taxes? Nah-ah, I gots mine. Taxing multi-billion corporations to pay their fair taxes? We can't, they'll take their business elsewhere!

Many Americans, especially the older generations, have been so brainwashed by decades of non-stop propaganda that they'd rather side with hoarding capitalists leagues out of their social class, rather than to side with "dirty commies" that have the people's interests at heart, just because both claim to be American and live inside some human-made borders.
 

Deleted member 8561

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,284
How about we put a law into effect that prohibits people from buying property for leasing/renting purposes, or better yet, owning more than one property? If you yourself don't live in said property for a certain period of time per year, you're not allowed to buy it. It should be as simple as that.

If we want to be serious about combating homelessness or the concept of housing for all in general, we have to take a stance against these parasites of society.

So if you have like, some random property in the woods in Maine that is hundreds of miles from civilization, that should be forfeit even though it's obviously not going to change anything?

The issue of foreign investment seems to be a specific issue that can be combated with targeted legislature without... nationalizing something nobody wants nationalized.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,957
Regarding Canada:


Remember when the RCMP and CSIS accused the Chinese government of purchasing real estate in Canadian urban centers as a method of threatening Canada? No? That's because the recommendations from a former classified program called Sidewinder was abandoned. All documents were ordered destroyed, and buried in 1997 by the Liberal government. Turns out we were as anxious to build ties with China then as we are now. Despite our national spy services advising the government that, well…this would happen to real estate.

In a report titled Chinese Intelligence Services and Triads Financial Links in Canada, an RCMP-CSIS joint task force allege that the Chinese government is using legal and legitimate businesses to gain control over the economic levers of Canada. They also warn that the "Canadian economy is concentrated in three or four large urban centres." Consequently, "[Canada] is more vulnerable [than other countries] because of the many legislative loopholes governing finance and the concentration of financial power in the hands of few".

Canada's spy agencies were issuing warnings over 20 years ago about China buying up real estate.

But it was buried.