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US fertility rate dropped to lowest in a century(1.62) as births dipped in 2023

TheEchosOfTheCyborg

TheEchosOfTheCyborg

Member
Feb 24, 2018
5,296
Why is it in every one of these thread, feminism (or in this case women's empowerment) and the idea of women wanting to be treated better vilified or treated as one of the big reasons? I'm sorry I'm not going to blame women for wanting better treatment and not expecting to become stay at home Mom's (or be with men at all, always nice the implications the gays and we WlW are to blame) just because society says so; I'm going to 100% blame that rotten society and it's economic system for creating the misogyny in the first place.
 
nsilvias

nsilvias

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,962
once you have a kid every waking moment of your life revolves around that kid in one way or another until they become a teen. alot of people don't want give up their lifestyle to that.
 
Vipershark

Vipershark

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,441
To be clear, I would be a horrible parent and don't want kids in any way so that's my main reason for not having them.

But also, I make somewhat decent money and can only barely support myself. How would I ever afford to support a kid as well with the price of everything completely out of control and only continuing to go up, without wages rising to match?

It's just not financially feasible.

I don't blame anyone for not having kids.
 
Reflecting Sky

Reflecting Sky

Member
Mar 17, 2024
202
Relationship, children, marriage are all a big NO for me, even if there were no financial headaches to speak of. The stress and worries alone would drive me nuts.
 
Soda

Soda

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,923
Dunedin, New Zealand
We pay about $1,600/mo for daycare and that's subsidized by about $500 by my wife's employer. We're planning to have a second kid in the next few years and for at least a year in there we may be paying for two daycares simultaneously, so about $3,200+/mo. Looking forward to our current child moving into free public school.
 
Hilarious_Bearious

Hilarious_Bearious

Member
Nov 4, 2017
7,391
I have two kids, supportive family and live in a place with subsidized childcare. Even then...

butter-scraped.gif


I 100% get why people don't want to have kids, especially if you're in a situation with no support or financial assistance. Plus society wants to mould them into entitled, wastefull, screaming banshees and it's just a constant fight to hold it at bay. Like I literally no longer fear death. Seems like a nice break from this grind.
 
andymoogle

andymoogle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,339
TheEchosOfTheCyborg said:
Why is it in every one of these thread, feminism (or in this case women's empowerment) and the idea of women wanting to be treated better vilified or treated as one of the big reasons? I'm sorry I'm not going to blame women for wanting better treatment and not expecting to become stay at home Mom's (or be with men at all, always nice the implications the gays and we WlW are to blame) just because society says so; I'm going to 100% blame that rotten society and it's economic system for creating the misogyny in the first place.
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Anything caused by capitalism is turned into a propaganda piece blaming anyone but the system. That's how the scam can keep on going.
 
AYZON

AYZON

Member
Oct 29, 2017
908
Germany
I feel like nowadays (if you dont have rich parents) it takes much longer to get into a position where you have a decent disposable income, so you put young people into the position to choose being finally able to do and see stuff or get kids and get locked into the never ending grind again.

At least thats it for me, I wouldnt have kids because I just now start having money to actually go on vacation, afford my hobbies etc.
 
Tomasoares

Tomasoares

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,602
I think this would only change worldwide if houses were like 2x-3x cheaper and work week houses would be something like 30 hours.

Kids are expensive and time consuming as hell. It's hard to handle this while having to work the entire day and spend your life paying for a house.
 
Soap

Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,282
yeah, as others have said, it's not rocket science. Having children is expensive.
 
gdt

gdt

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,539
God this thread is full of gloom and doom. This isn't anything new, most developed countries are dealing with the same thing.

The lack of leave and easy access to child care in the US is brutal for sure, of course. But this isn't a US specific problem. There are places with better policies and lower birth rates (it's 5am so I'm not 100% on that one lol)
 
T002 Tyrant

T002 Tyrant

Member
Nov 8, 2018
9,057
1) Can't have children
2) Most people can't afford to have children or adopt
3)Capitalism gets worse and continues to make it difficult to have children
4) The world is fucked, do we really want to bring more people into this fucked up world?

Also conservative, white countries such as the USA and UK are obsessed and I do mean obsessed with breeding. Everything is really geared towards making white women into baby factories because they buy into replacement theory.
 
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Clefargle

Clefargle

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,155
Limburg
If you want people to have kids, make it easier for them to save money and have time to build a family. It isn't some mystery, stop running millennial and Gen Z people ragged and give us what we need to build wealth and families
 
Netherscourge

Netherscourge

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,993
The cost of daycare and health insurance alone is enough to stop people from having kids.

Then think about college, cars, car insurance, etc... down the road when they get older.

Not happening. This world sucks unless you're rich.
 
Motorcycle Dork

Motorcycle Dork

Member
Jun 24, 2019
6,419
TheEchosOfTheCyborg said:
Why is it in every one of these thread, feminism (or in this case women's empowerment) and the idea of women wanting to be treated better vilified or treated as one of the big reasons? I'm sorry I'm not going to blame women for wanting better treatment and not expecting to become stay at home Mom's (or be with men at all, always nice the implications the gays and we WlW are to blame) just because society says so; I'm going to 100% blame that rotten society and it's economic system for creating the misogyny in the first place.
Click to expand...
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andymoogle said:
Anything caused by capitalism is turned into a propaganda piece blaming anyone but the system. That's how the scam can keep on going.
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Click to shrink...
giphy.gif


Chumps are falling for the blame game, not realising that Neoliberalism is the cause of the declining birthrates. There are women + birthing persons who would love to have kids but the economic system and societal attitudes are rigged against them.
 
RPGam3r

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,614
Ok, or maybe even good? People that want kids will have them, and societal pressures and expectations are maybe loosening enough where people who don't want them won't.

I don't know maybe the problem isn't the decrease we have now but the increases from the past?
 
Roubjon

Roubjon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,297
I think I'd have kids if I was more financially stable. I don't know when that will happen.
 
Omegasquash

Omegasquash

Member
Oct 31, 2017
6,223
Oh no not our BIRTH RATE?! At this point whatever will we do?! We can't have things like IMMIGRANTS coming to the country and increasing our population because they're...hmmm.../s

People not wanting to have children and pay through the nose to have those kids grow up in a world where climate change is right on the door step and upward mobility is simply out of reach seems like a really smart move.

Sean C. said:
You're actually more likely to have children in the lower income brackets.
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Probably why states with large low-income populations are pushing (or already have) basically zero tolerance abortion law, "school choice" is being pushed, and prices are over the moon for basic necessities. They just need the grist to keep the mill going.
 

Johnny956

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,934
Sean C. said:
You're actually more likely to have children in the lower income brackets.
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Yup my wife does epidurals at a hospital that primarily deals with lower income patients. While their births have dropped, our neighbor is a OBGYN at a suburb hospital in a more affluent area and their births last there were half of the previous year
 
Tobor

Tobor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,644
Richmond, VA
RPGam3r said:
Ok, or maybe even good? People that want kids will have them, and societal pressures and expectations are maybe loosening enough where people who don't want them won't.

I don't know maybe the problem isn't the decrease we have now but the increases from the past?
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It's a huge problem if you aren't rich and live long long enough to need care.

As the population ages and birth rates stay below the replacement line the situation will get much, much worse.
 
RPGam3r

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,614
Tobor said:
It's a huge problem if you aren't rich and live long long enough to need care.

As the population ages and birth rates stay below the replacement line the situation will get much, much worse.
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Again, maybe past increases are the problem. I'm not going to lay that at the feet of younger generations not wanting to have kids.
 
9-Volt

9-Volt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,892
Ha, checks out! I have 38 male millennial co-workers who had never been in any relationship and they're not looking for one. Youngest is 27, oldest is 41. Things are changing way too fast, there is no longer peer pressure over people to get married and stigma over the single life seems to be completely gone. The country needs to adapt to these changes as fast as possible though, those people need affordable urban housing suitable for single living but it fails to provide enough.
 
smcc94x

smcc94x

Member
Jul 13, 2021
278
People having fewer kids in an overpopulated planet is a good thing.

It's as simple as that.

There will be significant consequences, of course.as there already will be as a result of overpopulation and as there would be if the population maintained/increases.
 
DarthMasta

DarthMasta

Member
Feb 17, 2018
4,009
People create society where it's difficult and not apparently beneficial to have children, and then wonder why people aren't having children...

It is what it is, maybe eventually will discover how to make iron wombs and we can all be trueborns...
 
Bentendo24

Bentendo24

Member
Feb 20, 2020
5,390
Remember when Congress wanted to have a child tax credit but nothing ever happened?

...I sure do! Lol
 
Couleurs

Couleurs

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,358
Denver, CO
Wow who knew that creating an economic system where people need multiple low paying jobs due to healthcare and housing being absurdly expensive, no paid parental leave, sky high daycare costs, and ridiculous tuition; all with rampant greedflation and little to no social safety net in case someone loses their job, would make people not want to have children and make their cost of living even more insane?

And that is ignoring the constant threat of school shootings which we will never do anything about, rapidly crumbling democracy/rising fascism and a world heading toward climate disaster and WW3

Who the fuck is looking around thinking "we should bring a baby into this"
 
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Maximo

Maximo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,222
The thought to seriously consider kids has never come, it's just a faraway novelty, even aproching 30 me and my partner are no way in hell good enough mentally or financially to have a kid.
 
Kenai

Kenai

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,274
It took a lot of resources and luck just for me and my SO to be able to get a house and we both have solid jobs. We're two gents so we'd have to look at different options like adoption, but neither of us are interested. We'll live vicariously through our niece, nephew and godchildren (third due in May and "gay uncles who give awesome gifts" makes you popular with the kids) during seasonal stuff and that's more than enough for us.
 
Tobor

Tobor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,644
Richmond, VA
RPGam3r said:
Again, maybe past increases are the problem. I'm not going to lay that at the feet of younger generations not wanting to have kids.
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That doesn't make sense, frankly. It's not a matter of blame or guilt. It's just the reality of civilization. We're either over the replacement line or we aren't. You always want to be over the line.

"Past increases" were what kept us over the line. If we didn't grow in the past, we wouldn't be here now.

I don't blame anyone for not having kids. I don't have them myself. But we have to understand the implications and put in work to try and reverse the trend. (If possible, it might not be) By "we" I mean government, not each of us individually.
 
Brawly Likes to Brawl

Brawly Likes to Brawl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,156
Ryohei Suzuki's bedroom
Let's see, a generation that can barely afford to live in an apartment let alone own a home, and might live in a state where they could be prosecuted for having a miscarriage doesn't want to have kids? Why, the circumstances are so ideal!
 
krazen

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,275
Gentrified Brooklyn
TheEchosOfTheCyborg said:
Why is it in every one of these thread, feminism (or in this case women's empowerment) and the idea of women wanting to be treated better vilified or treated as one of the big reasons? I'm sorry I'm not going to blame women for wanting better treatment and not expecting to become stay at home Mom's (or be with men at all, always nice the implications the gays and we WlW are to blame) just because society says so; I'm going to 100% blame that rotten society and it's economic system for creating the misogyny in the first place.
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Click to shrink...

This, who can give up years of their lives in this capitalistic hellscape to pop out and raise an infant? Who can afford to lose years of money earning potential (in a place where money is literally life or death) to raise a child? Why would they, considering we treat mothers like second class citizens who are 'old' automatically after popping one out no matter the age?
 
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smcc94x

smcc94x

Member
Jul 13, 2021
278
Tobor said:
That doesn't make sense, frankly. It's not a matter of blame or guilt. It's just the reality of civilization. We're either over the replacement line or we aren't. You always want to be over the line.

"Past increases" were what kept us over the line. If we didn't grow in the past, we wouldn't be here now.

I don't blame anyone for not having kids. I don't have them myself. But we have to understand the implications and put in work to try and reverse the trend. (If possible, it might not be) By "we" I mean government, not each of us individually.
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What is this notion that human civilisation can't exist and prosper without perpetual population increase?

Do you understand the implications if we don't fall below the replacement line?

The idea that we should keep having more and more people to avoid economic shock and a few generations going without care in their old age is bonkers, imo.
 
nonoriri

nonoriri

Member
Apr 30, 2020
4,259
I like how these topics are always centered around the economy and how we need people who can get pregnant to give birth like we're fucking cattle or something to keep it going.

Instead of inventing incentives that can never makeup for the risk taken or invent desire where it doesn't exist, maybe we should reconsider infinite growth.

Just kidding that won't happen and in many countries they'll attack reproductive rights and go back to vilifying people who dare to not want to use their bodies for the sake of society. This forum skews so heavily male that I think the burden being asked here just doesn't click.
 
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AlgusUnderdunk

AlgusUnderdunk

Member
Dec 30, 2020
15,343
Money, mental well-being, and horrified by the idea I'd bring a child into a world they'd be shot in while someone told me how necessary guns were.
 
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