US PoliEra 2019 |OT8| WHITE HOUSE ADMITS TO QUID PRO QUO WITH UKRAINE

[adam387]

I have learned that whenever Republicans are caught flat footed and trying to go on the offense (because they are never allowed to admit they are wrong) they clutch pearls on something stupid to try and change the dialogue. It works most times just based on repetition.

I still think the email nonsense with Hillary was them clutching pearls after they realized Benghazi wasn't going to lead to anything.

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That defense on matters for optics. It doesn't really change the evidence or anything like that . . . but some fence-sitting republicans/independants might be a little harder to pull over now.

Of course, this shouldn't actually matter on iota in his impeachment inquiry / vote. There's just too much going on in his closet to let some paraphrasing derail this investigation.

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I'ma reply both at once. I just think no one really cared about this particular hearing enough to be too worried abou tturning off some potential votes. If this was enough to swing your thought process, we were never winning you anyway. (Be that a rep or a voter). I definitely agree optics matter, and everything officially related to the impeachment has to be perfect. This, though, eh. I'm not real worried about it. I thought overall Schiff ran a good hearing. I feel pretty confident with him taking point on some of this. The fact that he wasn't a die hard impeacher is good, imo, because it fits the narrative that Pelosi is wanting to run on:

We hate having to do this. We didn't want to do this. We had literally no choice. It's to save the Republic.

(that's the winning message imo)

 

[Dahbomb]

Seems like a mass shooting is imminent at this point. The disgusting thing is going to be that Trump is going to blame Democrats for it "look at what your impeachment is inciting!" and somehow talk about gun legislation in vague terms to show that Dems arent doing anything.

 

[sprsk]

I totally see within this week Trump hereby proclaiming a civil war! (With democrats, not a real one)

 

[Kyra]

I really hope the 25th isn't invoked. It honestly may be the smartest thing Rs have done in a while. No weasel img out of this one. You are the party of Trump now.

 

[AnotherNils]

I forgot the idiot was in the room when they disseminated the damn points!

 

[Chaos Legion]

Fuck it, I wanna ask.

How do we explain Trump? In 20 years or so, how do we explain that we voted for this piece of shit?
A few friends and I have a challenge to go through each presidency (set of audiobooks I'm going through). I'm at Monroe and Jefferson's writings to him made me think about how intelligent these people were.

And then we have covfefe.

(I'm told Trump isn't even in the top 3 worst presidents, so I'm waiting for the Harding books lol)

 

[sangreal]

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this is like the 3rd the McCarthy has just straight up pretended the transcript says something other than it does. As a reminder, he was given a briefing before it was even released so that he could get his story straight

The "though" he wants to deny is very important because it ties the favor to the previous statement which is inconvenient for the argument that the favor wasn't an exchange

 

[Deleted member 7462]

Trump is definitely the worst president of all time. He's an even dumber Warren Harding, which, wow, I didn't even think that was possible.

Trump's the worst, then Harding, then Buchanan. You can flip Harding and Buchanan if you want, but that's your bottom three.

 

[adam387]

I worry that Trump will be a footnote in history books because it's going to be SO hard to cover him. We cannot let that happen. We absolutely cannot pretend that : points around wildly at all the things : didn't happen. We can't scrub him from the timeline. Every horrible, vile, disgusting thing he did has to be aired out.

Then I remember Texas writes the textbooks for most of the country.

 

[Teggy]

I really hope the 25th isn't invoked. It honestly may be the smartest thing Rs have done in a while. No weasel img out of this one. You are the party of Trump now.

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TBH, going with the 25th, admitting that trump is terrible and make them own waiting so long and supporting him along the way would actually be a good result.

 

[Dahbomb]

I worry that Trump will be a footnote in history books because it's going to be SO hard to cover him. We cannot let that happen. We absolutely cannot pretend that : points around wildly at all the things : didn't happen. We can't scrub him from the timeline. Every horrible, vile, disgusting thing he did has to be aired out.

Then I remember Texas writes the textbooks for most of the country.

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The good thing about the digital age is that all of his Twitter tweets are saved for as long we have the Internet. Hell that one lady is saving all of his tweets in a book!

 

[EvilChameleon]

Theoretically, if Trump got wind of his cabinet tossing about the 25th amendment, couldn't he just fire them all before they get the chance to invoke it?

 

[Dahbomb]

Legit or troll? I know there is a second WB in Trump's taxes.

 

[sangreal]

Theoretically, if Trump got wind of his cabinet tossing about the 25th amendment, couldn't he just fire them all before they get the chance to invoke it?

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Yes. The clause exists for incapacitated Presidents who literally cannot perform their duties

It requires more votes than impeachment anyway (unless the President doesn't object which again would require him to be unable to pick up a pen) so it isn't even worth talking about

 

[Vas]

Trump is definitely the worst president of all time. He's an even dumber Warren Harding, which, wow, I didn't even think that was possible.

Trump's the worst, then Harding, then Buchanan. You can flip Harding and Buchanan if you want, but that's your bottom three.

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Trump's too lazy and stupid to be TOO bad as a president. He really hasn't done much, he's just an idiotic loudmouth.

 

[Deleted member 176]

(I'm told Trump isn't even in the top 3 worst presidents, so I'm waiting for the Harding books lol)

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you were told wrong

Trump's too lazy and stupid to be TOO bad as a president. He really hasn't done much, he's just an idiotic loudmouth.

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In the past few hours he's called for the penalty of treason on a whistleblower and threatened civil war

there have been several mass shootings at the very least highly encouraged by his rhetoric

he's more or less destroyed united states soft power

he's openly subverting the rule of law and democracy

 

[TheFatOne]

Legit or troll? I know there is a second WB in Trump's taxes.

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Assume troll that is throwing shit out there.

 

[Vas]

you were told wrong


In the past few hours he's called for the penalty of treason on a whistleblower and threatened civil war

there have been several mass shootings at the very least highly encouraged by his rhetoric

he's more or less destroyed united states soft power

he's openly subverting the rule of law and democracy

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True, and he's still not as destructive and harmful as Bush was. If he had work ethic, he might be. But he doesn't. We're lucky, really.

 

[Ithil]

Trump's too lazy and stupid to be TOO bad as a president. He really hasn't done much, he's just an idiotic loudmouth.

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The damage he and his admin have done to the government itself, particularly the state department, is immense and likely catastrophic.

 

[SpitztheGreat]

Trump is definitely the worst president of all time. He's an even dumber Warren Harding, which, wow, I didn't even think that was possible.

Trump's the worst, then Harding, then Buchanan. You can flip Harding and Buchanan if you want, but that's your bottom three.

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Not that I want to stand up for Harding, but I'm not sure he is in the same conversation with Buchanan and Trump. If he is then you absolutely have to include Nixon and Hoover.

 

[Vas]

The damage he and his admin have done to the government itself, particularly the state department, is immense and likely catastrophic.

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We'll see. But Buchanan literally let our country be split into two nations that then shed the blood of hundreds of thousands of Americans at the hands of other Americans. Trump isn't there, yet.

 

[Deleted member 176]

Trump's too lazy and stupid to be TOO bad as a president. He really hasn't done much, he's just an idiotic loudmouth.

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True, and he's still not as destructive and harmful as Bush was. If he had work ethic, he might be. But he doesn't. We're lucky, really.

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I think you're underestimating how destructive he is considering his greatest accomplishments, like the stacking of our courts with people like him, will be felt over the next few decades

and to say nothing of climate change

"Trump isn't even that bad" just seems really ignorant

 

[Deleted member 3082]

Y'all talking worst presidents are forgetting Andrew Johnson basically let the South get away with the Civil War by stopping Reconstruction dead. I also have a special hate in my heart for Andrew Jackson and, of course, Dubya...

How do we explain Trump? In 20 years or so, how do we explain that we voted for this piece of shit?

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Americans have avoided facing hard truths about slavery and/or race since the very beginning, and politicians have been happily using that to manipulate whites for generations. Trump isn't the cause, he's just tapped into what's already there (and honestly, he's terrible at that too, he shouts what used to be dog-whistled). He probably won't even be the last either, but here's hoping. We as a species are terrible at learning from our mistakes.

 

[Chaos Legion]

Trump is definitely the worst president of all time. He's an even dumber Warren Harding, which, wow, I didn't even think that was possible.

Trump's the worst, then Harding, then Buchanan. You can flip Harding and Buchanan if you want, but that's your bottom three.

Click to shrink...

It's weird, I've always loved US history, but looking at the president's is a refreshing view. Buchanan's lethargy apparently gave us the civil war and I never actually thought about the fact he was technically president.

I do think presidential winners ascribe a detail of the people at the time. I'm scared what we will be looked as.

 

[Garrett 2U]

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Please let this be the fucking end.

 

[SpitztheGreat]

I think you're underestimating how destructive he is considering his greatest accomplishments, like the stacking of our courts with people like him, will be felt over the next few decades

and to say nothing of climate change

"Trump isn't even that bad" just seems really ignorant

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If 2020 is a sweeping Democratic victory, and Trump goes down worse/harder than Nixon and his crimes revealed to be far more extensive, there needs to be real talk about invalidating his appointments.

 

[Teggy]

Scaramucci still trying to get his 15 minutes because he only managed 10 before he got fired.

 

[Vas]

I think you're underestimating how destructive he is considering his greatest accomplishments, like the stacking of our courts with people like him, will be felt over the next few decades

and to say nothing of climate change

"Trump isn't even that bad" just seems really ignorant

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He is bad. Really bad. But, he hasn't gotten us into any forever-wars based on known lies yet. When he does, then I'll say Trump was worse than W Bush. Calling it 'ignorant' is just unnecessarily condescending and uncalled-for. I don't know why you'd say something like that, honestly. I lived through it as an adult. As bad as Trump is, the sheer terror of the Bush years was something different.

 

[Deleted member 176]

He is bad. Really bad. But, he hasn't gotten us into any forever-wars based on known lies yet. When he does, then I'll say Trump was worse than W Bush. Calling it 'ignorant' is just unnecessarily condescending and uncalled-for. I don't know why you'd say something like that, honestly. I lived through it as an adult. As bad as Trump is, the sheer terror of the Bush years was something different.

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I don't think it's uncalled for.

 

[Skiptastic]

Fuck it, I wanna ask.

How do we explain Trump? In 20 years or so, how do we explain that we voted for this piece of shit?
A few friends and I have a challenge to go through each presidency (set of audiobooks I'm going through). I'm at Monroe and Jefferson's writings to him made me think about how intelligent these people were.

And then we have covfefe.

(I'm told Trump isn't even in the top 3 worst presidents, so I'm waiting for the Harding books lol)

Click to shrink...

The generation of young adults during Watergate decided that, instead of putting decent people in the White House, they'd elect a scumbag president to be a fucking scumbag and represent their scummy generation. He did everything for himself and didn't give a fuck about anything else.

What a nice way to put a bow on the Baby Boomers. Two presidents impeached, one who started a war for fucking nothing. Obama is the only President of any true merit at the moment, in my opinion. If Gen X and us millennials don't do better, the whole human race is fucked.

 

[Vas]

I don't think it's uncalled for.

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Then you have the people skills of a hornet.

 

[Nappuccino]

I'ma reply both at once. I just think no one really cared about this particular hearing enough to be too worried abou tturning off some potential votes. If this was enough to swing your thought process, we were never winning you anyway. (Be that a rep or a voter). I definitely agree optics matter, and everything officially related to the impeachment has to be perfect. This, though, eh. I'm not real worried about it. I thought overall Schiff ran a good hearing. I feel pretty confident with him taking point on some of this. The fact that he wasn't a die hard impeacher is good, imo, because it fits the narrative that Pelosi is wanting to run on:

We hate having to do this. We didn't want to do this. We had literally no choice. It's to save the Republic.

(that's the winning message imo)

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I will say that generally I agree with everything you say here.

 

[Teggy]

Still repeating the same idiotic talking points even after being embarrassed (kind of obvious when you say the exact same words you said on tv). People have read the transcript and disagree you gaslighting moron!

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

He is bad. Really bad. But, he hasn't gotten us into any forever-wars based on known lies yet. When he does, then I'll say Trump was worse than W Bush. Calling it 'ignorant' is just unnecessarily condescending and uncalled-for. I don't know why you'd say something like that, honestly. I lived through it as an adult. As bad as Trump is, the sheer terror of the Bush years was something different.

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He, hopefully, won't initiate any wars but the crippling of the US's diplomatic arm, treaties and the lack of any cohesive strategy to combat an expansionist China in diplomatic or economic means he is steering us to future conflict.

 

[Vas]

He, hopefully, won't initiate any wars but the crippling of the US's diplomatic arm, treaties and the lack of any cohesive strategy to combat an expansionist China in diplomatic or economic means is steering us to future conflict.

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Hence, "yet." It's like saying Lebron was the GOAT before he had a ring.

 

[Aaron]

I worry that Trump will be a footnote in history books because it's going to be SO hard to cover him. We cannot let that happen. We absolutely cannot pretend that : points around wildly at all the things : didn't happen. We can't scrub him from the timeline. Every horrible, vile, disgusting thing he did has to be aired out.

Then I remember Texas writes the textbooks for most of the country.

Click to shrink...

Just in time for them to become a blue state!

 

[Deleted member 176]

I guess I could see how Trump doesn't seem that bed if you're a generally well-off white person so your life mostly isn't changed by having him around.

 

[Zed]

Can the Senate actually do a secret vote to remove Trump if he is impeached? That is the only way I can see Trump being removed. Republicans are too scared to defy Trump's base. A secret vote with tactical voting of having some Republicans vote "no" gives the plausible deniability that they voted or did not vote for Trump's removal.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Trump stacking the courts isn't really Trump.
It's McConnell (for obstruction of Obama) and the Federalist Society who basically chooses the nominees.
Any GOP President is basically just a rubber-stamp.

 

[sphagnum]

Fuck it, I wanna ask.

How do we explain Trump? In 20 years or so, how do we explain that we voted for this piece of shit?
A few friends and I have a challenge to go through each presidency (set of audiobooks I'm going through). I'm at Monroe and Jefferson's writings to him made me think about how intelligent these people were.

And then we have covfefe.

(I'm told Trump isn't even in the top 3 worst presidents, so I'm waiting for the Harding books lol)

Click to shrink...

Easy. Degenerating capitalism + blowback to a black president + hatred of Hillary specifically and women in general.

 

[Deleted member 7462]

Not that I want to stand up for Harding, but I'm not sure he is in the same conversation with Buchanan and Trump. If he is then you absolutely have to include Nixon and Hoover.

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I get this argument because, if I read you right, Trump and Buchanan destablized the United States in a way that no other POTUS has done. From that perspective, Buchanan is the worst POTUS because (as of this moment, at least!) he's the only dude that basically led us into a civil war.

But I also don't have a problem with discussing Hoover and Nixon (and ultimately W. Bush) in these terms as well. If I were doing a bottom eight or nine, they'd all be on the list along with Andrew Johnson, Andrew Jackson, and Ronald Reagan.

Trump is basically Andrew Jackson-plus: A prolific murderer of brown people and strident anti-intellectual. The difference is that Jackson didn't undermine the United States as a sovereign nation like Trump is doing.

 

[JABEE]

There is probably a lot of illegal shit President's do un-noticed and I think Trump breached something here which will hopefully de-classify embarrassing and illegal shit. The executive has been operating and utilizing American war powers to violate the separation of powers for far too long.

 

[Deleted member 8257]

Gaslighting by McCarthy is...making me anxious.

 

[Zed]

I get this argument because, if I read you right, Trump and Buchanan destablized the United States in a way that no other POTUS has done. From that perspective, Buchanan is the worst POTUS because (as of this moment, at least!) he's the only dude that basically led us into a civil war.

But I also don't have a problem with discussing Hoover and Nixon (and ultimately W. Bush) in these terms as well. If I were doing a bottom eight or nine, they'd all be on the list along with Andrew Johnson, Andrew Jackson, and Ronald Reagan.

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Andrew Johnson is the worst. He let the rich Southern slave owners off the hook and planted the seeds of letting them take back control of the South by pardoning almost all of them.

 

[adam387]

I guess I could see how Trump doesn't seem that bed if you're a generally well-off white person so your life mostly isn't changed by having him around.

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I am a well off white person surrounded by a lot of other well off white people whose lives are definitely not really affected on a day to day basis by Trump. I have seen a hard shift among a lot of these folks. I actually don't think/know if any of them voted for Trump, but when I was picking up my kid from his riding lessons they were all complaining about Trump and the Ukraine thing. The main through line is...."I'm so sick of him and hearing about him. I just want him gone."

And I think that's one of our biggest strengths in 2020. people just want this shit to stop. it's too much. It's too often. It's too loud. It's just so, so embarrassing.

 

[JABEE]

These arguments are falling flat. I think the Republicans need some new talking points if they want to defend a clearly illegal action which Trump provided evidence in favor of impeachment.

 

[Nappuccino]

Gaslighting by McCarthy is...making me anxious.

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In the future, they'll need to start putting giant bold "liar" text whenever they try to get their misleading statements in. It's clear that McCarthy just wanted that one minute of clean footage so he could post these idiotic tweets.

 

[Zed]

I am a well off white person surrounded by a lot of other well off white people whose lives are definitely not really affected on a day to day basis by Trump. I have seen a hard shift among a lot of these folks. I actually don't think/know if any of them voted for Trump, but when I was picking up my kid from his riding lessons they were all complaining about Trump and the Ukraine thing. The main through line is...."I'm so sick of him and hearing about him. I just want him gone."

And I think that's one of our biggest strengths in 2020. people just want this shit to stop. it's too much. It's too often. It's too loud. It's just so, so embarrassing.

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Interesting point. Well off white people may not care about racism of Trump but they do care about the embarrassment of Trump.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

why has it become so hard not to wear blackface!? I feel like I've accomplished something during my college years by not doing this.

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In my mid twenties, I dressed up for a party as ike Turner. I had the good sense to not wear blackface though (just a fake goatee).

 

[Chaos Legion]

He is bad. Really bad. But, he hasn't gotten us into any forever-wars based on known lies yet. When he does, then I'll say Trump was worse than W Bush. Calling it 'ignorant' is just unnecessarily condescending and uncalled-for. I don't know why you'd say something like that, honestly. I lived through it as an adult. As bad as Trump is, the sheer terror of the Bush years was something different.

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George Bush's administration destabilized the middle East. For sure.

But I can say positive things about George Bush. I have not a single kind word to say about Trump and this administration. They are actively hating Americans. Their immigration policy is now targeting children of military folks. What has this idiot done that's good for the nation? Tax cuts?

The generation of young adults during Watergate decided that, instead of putting decent people in the White House, they'd elect a scumbag president to be a fucking scumbag and represent their scummy generation. He did everything for himself and didn't give a fuck about anything else.

What a nice way to put a bow on the Baby Boomers. Two presidents impeached, one who started a war for fucking nothing. Obama is the only President of any true merit at the moment, in my opinion. If Gen X and us millennials don't do better, the whole human race is fucked.

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Is this Reagan? Sorry, young adults during Nixon makes me think Reagan but maybe bush?