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US PoliEra 2022 |OT 1| Build Back Later

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Stooge

Stooge

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,297
"I will pardon trump" will become a GOP presidential pledge everyone takes. I really think America is likely in its waning days.

A decade ago if you told me the GOP would be defending an assault on the capital by a mob trying to overthrow our government or hand-waiving nuclear deterent information being stolen from the white house I actually would not have believed you.

Most of the terrible shit they used to defend they at least thought was "good" for America (or at least their donors) even if it was not. We're just into full on "anything that keeps us in power is good, anything that might harm our ability to stay in power is bad"
 

Deleted member 8257

Oct 26, 2017
24,586
DrROBschiz said:
Everything about this defies logic. Why the fuck would he do all this
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Because he doesn't care and people like him have never faced a consequence in life. He has been openly being corrupt, threatening people, pressuring Zelenskyy to find dirt on Biden, selling secrets in the open, hawking Goya products from resolute desk to fomenting revolt. It's doubtful if it's now that it will matter.
 
DrROBschiz

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,497
Stooge said:
"I will pardon trump" will become a GOP presidential pledge everyone takes. I really think America is likely in its waning days.

A decade ago if you told me the GOP would be defending an assault on the capital by a mob trying to overthrow our government or hand-waiving nuclear deterent information being stolen from the white house I actually would not have believed you.

Most of the terrible shit they used to defend they at least thought was "good" for America (or at least their donors) even if it was not. We're just into full on "anything that keeps us in power is good, anything that might harm our ability to stay in power is bad"
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yeah man

This reality is fucking stark right now

If we cannot course correct over these next few elections it is only going to get uglier
 
I Don't Like

I Don't Like

Member
Dec 11, 2017
14,935
Does anyone hate Elise in-the-toilet Stefanik as much as I? Every time this smug, indignant, idiotic fucking liar opens her lying mouth it just irritates me to no end. To be fair I guess that's true for basically ant and all Trump-Republicans or right wingers in general but she is really something else with her constant, shitty, lying takes and proud "ultra MAGA" nonsense. Fuck Elise Stefanik and fuck her voters.
 
Mandos

Mandos

Member
Nov 27, 2017
31,102
Stooge said:
"I will pardon trump" will become a GOP presidential pledge everyone takes. I really think America is likely in its waning days.

A decade ago if you told me the GOP would be defending an assault on the capital by a mob trying to overthrow our government or hand-waiving nuclear deterent information being stolen from the white house I actually would not have believed you.

Most of the terrible shit they used to defend they at least thought was "good" for America (or at least their donors) even if it was not. We're just into full on "anything that keeps us in power is good, anything that might harm our ability to stay in power is bad"
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Eh this argument is flawed. This requires Trump to trust the GOP. He doesn't. If he thinks he's getting time or gets time, he's going scorched earth and having his cult split and attack anyone he views as betraying him. He's dumb enough to think Desantis had a hand in this and he hates his guts. Also if the charges don't bar him from running he will run from prison. So the GOP either supports a prisoner or splits and Trump goes independent. This mix causing tons of damage
 
Stooge

Stooge

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,297
Im not sure a federal law can pre-empt the constitution. That dude can run even if a felon. I think there is a line somewhere post civil war about insurrection or rebellion but that feels like a long-shot.
 

Deleted member 70788

Jun 2, 2020
9,620
Stooge said:
Im not sure a federal law can pre-empt the constitution. That dude can run even if a felon. I think there is a line somewhere post civil war about insurrection or rebellion but that feels like a long-shot.
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Running as a felon and winning as a felon that sold international nuclear secrets are two very different things.
 
Mandos

Mandos

Member
Nov 27, 2017
31,102
Iorek Byrnison said:
Running as a felon and winning as a felon that sold international nuclear secrets are two very different things.
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This. Plus he would totally rip into the gop for failing him and go independent.

Also him announcing a run or getting indicted before the midterms kick off in earnest will destroy the candidates he backed and the GOP's ability to message
 
hurlex

hurlex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,143
I'm not sure DeSantis and other GOP candidates running on pardoning Trump is going to be a winning message.
 

Deleted member 70788

Jun 2, 2020
9,620
Mandos said:
This. Plus he would totally rip into the gop for failing him and go independent.

Also him announcing a run or getting indicted before the midterms kick off in earnest will destroy the candidates he backed and the GOP's ability to message
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Additionally. It's one thing to Stan for Trump at a distance to gain votes, but how many are going willingly tie themselves to another run with the potential of being enmeshed legally with a traitor to the United States? I think a lot of the GOP are survivors, not lots, and that's a helluva choice to gamble if you want to survive.
 
Plinko

Plinko

Member
Oct 28, 2017
18,589
Trump released the warrant with the FBI agents' names unredacted.

Guarantee it was purposeful so his nutjob followers knew who they were.
 
Maxim726x

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,089
Stooge said:
"I will pardon trump" will become a GOP presidential pledge everyone takes. I really think America is likely in its waning days.

A decade ago if you told me the GOP would be defending an assault on the capital by a mob trying to overthrow our government or hand-waiving nuclear deterent information being stolen from the white house I actually would not have believed you.

Most of the terrible shit they used to defend they at least thought was "good" for America (or at least their donors) even if it was not. We're just into full on "anything that keeps us in power is good, anything that might harm our ability to stay in power is bad"
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Hard to disagree with any of this.

It's just sad to see that we threw it all away for... Donald fucking Trump.

A shitstain on humanity. Has been his whole life.
 
Sheepinator

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,073
I asked before, didn't get a solid answer. Let's say he runs for Pres from jail and wins. As unlikely as that sounds, go with it. How does the US Constitution and law reconcile that? You cannot run the country from jail.

In theory he could immediately self-pardon, which is extremely dubious. I suppose he could immediately step down so the VP can pardon, then they swap places again. Would that be the only way to resolve it?
 
Stooge

Stooge

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,297
Sheepinator said:
I asked before, didn't get a solid answer. Let's say he runs for Pres from jail and wins. As unlikely as that sounds, go with it. How does the US Constitution and law reconcile that? You cannot run the country from jail.

In theory he could immediately self-pardon, which is extremely dubious. I suppose he could immediately step down so the VP can pardon, then they swap places again. Would that be the only way to resolve it?
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I mean he would have to take the oath of office from jail right?

Its an absolutely wild scenario.

I think practically if this nightmare scenario happens probably Biden would pardon him as soon as it was clear he was the president-elect to avoid exactly this question.
 
Plinko

Plinko

Member
Oct 28, 2017
18,589
I believe it was reported a couple days ago the FBI purposely waited until he wasn't at the premises.
 
Thordinson

Thordinson

Banned
Aug 1, 2018
18,129
Sheepinator said:
I asked before, didn't get a solid answer. Let's say he runs for Pres from jail and wins. As unlikely as that sounds, go with it. How does the US Constitution and law reconcile that? You cannot run the country from jail.

In theory he could immediately self-pardon, which is extremely dubious. I suppose he could immediately step down so the VP can pardon, then they swap places again. Would that be the only way to resolve it?
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I'd assume he would be released from jail as he cannot be President from jail physically.

He can't step down then immediately become President again. They could use the 25th Amendment to temporarily make whoever the VP to pardon him, I guess.
 
Sheepinator

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,073
Thordinson said:
I'd assume he would be released from jail as he cannot be President from jail physically.

He can't step down then immediately become President again. They could use the 25th Amendment to temporarily make whoever the VP to pardon him, I guess.
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Who can release him from jail early though? I assume a lot of due process for that, parole hearing etc.? I mean there is surely nothing in the legal system for, "Let this one guilty guy out early if he wins the Presidency, but not everyone else."
 
Kilgore Trout

Kilgore Trout

Member
Oct 25, 2017
546
hurlex said:
I'm not sure DeSantis and other GOP candidates running on pardoning Trump is going to be a winning message.
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Yeah, that won't play well with moderates and independents at all. Only true believers will eat that kind of talk up.

I also don't see someone like DeSantis pardoning him if he gets an opportunity. I don't think he would want to use all of his political capital on Trump, a man who seems to hate him. DeSantis is terrible, but he is smart.
 
IggyChooChoo

IggyChooChoo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,230
Thordinson said:
I'd assume he would be released from jail as he cannot be President from jail physically.

He can't step down then immediately become President again. They could use the 25th Amendment to temporarily make whoever the VP to pardon him, I guess.
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Couldn't he be president from jail? There's nothing in the constitution about where the president needs to physically be, is there? SOTUs can be a letter, and the oath of office can be given anywhere. Other than that, all he needs is a phone and a pen, right?
 

viskod

Member
Nov 9, 2017
4,396
Maxim726x said:
Eh. I understand the cynicism, but... You can't let the guy off now.

If the FBI was going to go through with the raid, with Garland's blessing, you're telling me that they're going to let Trump walk now that they've actually found something?

Just doesn't make sense.
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You say "actually found something" like they did not know what they were going there to get. They knew he had illegally taken classified information. They've known for over a year. They didn't charge him for it, they just tried to get the documents secured and then returned.

When he returned a portion, they suspected he did not return all of them and an informant to the FBI confirmed this and the reason for the warrant was to retrieve the documents.

Getting these documents returned to a secure location is the primary objective here, I very seriously doubt that a Merrick Garland DOJ is going to charge and attempt to prosecute Trump solely for taking these documents. Even if Trump himself made this a felony with a 5 year minimum in 2018.

The only way I even see it potentially feasible that Trump is charged is if they have concrete evidence that the successfully or attempted to traffic some of these for profit.
 
Plinko

Plinko

Member
Oct 28, 2017
18,589
The thing that is really worrisome is that somebody had to tell the DoJ this stuff was there because they saw it. How many people saw it before? Who else has this stuff?
 
Marus

Marus

Alt account
Banned
Aug 6, 2022
1,929
Yea...This is a big deal. You can't downplay this shit.

If he were to announce his candidacy for president that would be a gift to dems.
 
Rag

Rag

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,881
I'm really riding high on pure dumb hopium right now. I have a stupid hypothetical question. In a world down the road where Trump has been held accountable and exposed as a traitor, is there an appetite for re-visiting his lifetime judicial appointments? It seems fucked up that we just have to live with three Supreme Court justices that were appointed by a man who lost the popular vote and more likely than not betrayed his country for money.
 
Thordinson

Thordinson

Banned
Aug 1, 2018
18,129
Sheepinator said:
Who can release him from jail early though? I assume a lot of due process for that, parole hearing etc.? I mean there is surely nothing in the legal system for, "Let this one guilty guy out early if he wins the Presidency, but not everyone else."
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I'm not exactly sure how it would work. I guess he could be President from prison or the Oval Office could become a prison.

IggyChooChoo said:
Couldn't he be president from jail? There's nothing in the constitution about where the president needs to physically be, is there? SOTUs can be a letter, and the oath of office can be given anywhere. Other than that, all he needs is a phone and a pen, right?
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He could, yeah. Though, he'd still probably have to leave sometimes.

I'd imagine they'd just have him basically on house arrest if he's not pardoned.
 
SSF1991

SSF1991

Member
Jun 19, 2018
3,263
"They could have had it anytime they wanted, all they had to do was ask!

The entire reason why they raided Mar-a-Lago in the first place was because you were hiding it from them and wouldn't let them have it, idiot.
 
Three Seagrass

Three Seagrass

Banned
Dec 19, 2021
1,695
My god this month has been one of the best months in politics since I started paying attention during the 2008 presidential election.
 
No Depth

No Depth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,338
Even if that inane excuse holds water…

Exactly why did you take top state secrets to your shitty private golf course in the first place?
Why lock them up and wait for someone to notice them missing?
Why hold them until someone politely asks for them back?
 
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