The Christian right is unlikely to ever turn on Israel. They largely could care less about the Jewish people, but they basically believe that in order for the second coming of Christ to happen Israel needs to be a Jewish country.
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US PoliEra 2023 |OT 2| Tapping The Sign
- Thread starter SSF1991
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View: https://x.com/Suntimes/status/1740883308194496784?s=20
This does not strike me as a small group tbh.
I just don't understand the goal here. It would make sense if they were supporting someone in a primary.
The general election alternative would be worse for all people in Gaza and for all Muslims in the US.
Can't help wondering if the same far-right Muslim group that is in cahoots with Michael Flynn and co. to foment this sentiment in Michigan is ultimately behind this.
I imagine to try to get him to change his stance on all this. Though weren't some (one?) of these groups reaching out to Trump's team before October 7?
Jesus Christ, this is literally the exact same group from a month ago and a month before that which is led by "Muslim leaders" who are not only relative nobodies but have documented histories of being vocally opposed to LGBT rights, worked with social conservatives on elections, and were associated with Michael Flynn PRIOR to 10/7. Also one dude has a history of domestic abuse spanning years. Literally the same group, the Abandon Biden group. Politico and Axios and other crap needs clickbait content and will continue to write something about them once a month I guess whatever.
It is! But it's not "behind this." It's in front of this. It's literally the same group name and everything.
Yep
While those groups are absolutely taking advantage of the situation, it's not coming from them. It's a sentiment that's already being expressed in these communities.
Even ignoring this group which has ties to Michael Flynn, folks don't want to vote for someone they see as committing or helping to commit a genocide against them.
You can say this is "selfish" or whatever adjective you want to use but Biden needs to do something if he wants their votes.
There is no point in regurgitating this circular argument but it's telling that this group, which we know is run in bad faith for insidious reasons, seems to be one of the few that is capable of drawing the attention of a media DESPERATE to write as much about this subject as possible.
There is no goal. It is not based in logic, though I'll assume there are some that are genuinely reacting based on emotions or perhaps attempting to shape policy. But one would assume that rather than "Abandon Biden" the first move would be to rally around Philips.
We care so much about Palestine that we will doom the region to a US President that will cater even more to the far right Israeli government's goal of forcing the Palestinians from their home is essentially the end result.
To a lot of Arab and Muslim folks, there's no difference between a genocide supported by one admin or the other though.
Israeli is going to push Palestinians from their homes it seems whether Biden is President or Trump is.
I believe I've read all of ONE article on a mainstream news site (so not including dedicated Jewish news outlets) examining the feelings of Jewish Americans and the dynamics of those views on the possible electoral impact since Hamas began this war.
This group seems to be as good faith as the Blexit group that was lead by Candice Owens and such in the lead up to the 2020 election. It's one thing to rally and protest in an attempt to get the administration to change their stance on Israel but it's another thing if you're proposing that the current admin be replaced by one that would be objectively worse in every way for your cause.
It's telling that for something that keeps getting reported on by various outlets, that it's always the exact same group of people saying the same thing over and over again. Its even more telling when one looks into the people behind it, you find out that they are the textbook definition of 'yikes'.
These are people who think Mike Flynn is a true patriot, I'm not shocked they are trying to get folks to not support Biden.
These are people who think Mike Flynn is a true patriot, I'm not shocked they are trying to get folks to not support Biden.
also telling that almost everybody here was like "these the same people that are fans of Mike Flynn for some reason?" this time
The thinking is that if Gaza and Palestinians are your cause then if the person you voted for is complicit in their genocide, why would you vote for him again? You can say "it'll be worse under Trump" but if both are going to commit genocide, an issue incredibly important to you, why does it matter to you which is in office?
You can, obviously, disagree with the reasoning and action but it makes sense.
I imagine that's because large amounts of Jewish folks aren't threatening to withhold their vote as they are being supported by the Admin. It doesn't make for an article that gets views since it's not negative, I assume.
As we rapidly approach the start of the new year, I feel it's necessary to remind everyone of the flood of disinformation, misinformation and otherwise bad faith propaganda that dominated online spaces and news media in the lead up to the past two presidential elections. We are already seeing some of this happening before election year has even started. Expect to see things ramp up exponentially in the new year.
So this is just a reminder that everyone should be extremely vigilant and exercise the utmost critical reading/consideration of all the news and media we will be wading through this coming year. Please be mindful of the stories, data and narratives you are reading and spreading. Listen to the people critically dissecting it and don't take it personally if you get hoodwinked it's their goal and they wouldn't be doing it if it didn't work.
I hope that this community will continue to be a valuable resource to sift through all the information and events in what will undoubtedly be an extremely chaotic year. For those of us, like myself, who have a tendency toward anxiety I sincerely hope this community will continue to be a place we can come for grounded analysis and commentary.
Happy new year everyone!
So this is just a reminder that everyone should be extremely vigilant and exercise the utmost critical reading/consideration of all the news and media we will be wading through this coming year. Please be mindful of the stories, data and narratives you are reading and spreading. Listen to the people critically dissecting it and don't take it personally if you get hoodwinked it's their goal and they wouldn't be doing it if it didn't work.
I hope that this community will continue to be a valuable resource to sift through all the information and events in what will undoubtedly be an extremely chaotic year. For those of us, like myself, who have a tendency toward anxiety I sincerely hope this community will continue to be a place we can come for grounded analysis and commentary.
Happy new year everyone!
You got a guy in office who's views on Israel are awful but pretty much in line with every previous American president and you have another guy vowing to bring that kind of genocide here to the USA.
Maybe my views are skewed because I'm black and voting for harm mitigation isn't new to me.
I'm also not in exactly the same situation as American Muslims because Biden isn't supplying weapons to a nation bombing my homeland. I'm sure I'd feel different but if the guy running against him is like "we're going to bomb Greg's homeland and then bomb Greg's house next!" I feel like I know what I'd be doing on election day.
maybe my views are skewed because i'm a person who might die *here* with a second trump election and know a ton of people who at minimum explicitly become second-class citizens again but this is approximately attempt #20 to explain to thor that there are in fact other groups capable of criticizing this line of reasoning, and that in fact we do not have to talk about this every week a new news outlet posts about this same group that contains 2020 trump and third-party voters
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Hmm? Absolutely you can criticize it. I'm saying it makes sense whether you agree or disagree and that Biden needs to figure out what he needs to do or potentially lose those voters.
I would also be one of those folks but I do understand why folks are upset and they are threatening to withhold their vote. It doesn't mean I agree with them.
I completely agree that the Biden and Trump Admin won't be the same and Trump will absolutely be worse.
It's not just bombing someone's homeland but many folks' families are being killed. So it's a bit more than that. I get your point though.
Ok, gonna be blunt because this keeps freaking bothering me. Since when do Muslim-Americans just monolithically even claim that Gaza is their "homeland" especially since a majority of them are descended from immigrants from South Asia and the South Pacific? What does homeland mean in this context? Because the vast majority of Muslims are not from the Middle East and regardless the majority-Muslim nations fight the hell out of each other just as much as European, Asian, and American nations fight eachother.
I'm just getting increasingly pissed off about how a good chunk of people in the West continue to prove themselves morally bankrupt when in the service of allegedly demanding a cessation of the war many now have stooped to propping up the fucking HOUTHIS as heroic which is just so ideologically incomprehensible on so many levels. Palestine has just about the worst "advocates" in the West for their cause that they could have ever imagined it's crazy. It's about as logical as Assadist supporters for Palestine for very obvious reasons.
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They don't. It's that Palestinian Muslims, that do have family there, are rightfully upset that their families are being murdered as well as other Arabs and Muslims upset that Israel is committing genocide against Palestinians.
Additionally, Gaza is home to some of the most sacred sites in Islam if I recall correctly, many of which have been destroyed during this siege.
I used homeland as an example. I'm not very religious so I'm not going to feel the same kind of bond that Islamic people feel for others in their faith. I've spoken to a lot of my Islamic/Muslim friends since this conflict started and their grief about what's going on is very real and I'm very sympathetic to what they're going through right now. We haven't talked politics at all so I don't know how this is going to effect their votes but I really haven't felt a lot of animosity towards Biden specifically, I'm hearing a lot of anger aimed at Israel. Most of the anti-Biden admin stuff I'm hearing/reading about has been online.
These are largely shared with Judaism and Christianity as well.
Yep. Palestine/Israel holds some of the most important sites in all of the Abrahamic faiths. To see them get obliterated is disheartening to say the least. I was raised Catholic and seeing the birthplace of Christ being under rubble is just so difficult to stomach. I had no idea Bethlehem was in the West Bank
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Israel deserves every bit of shit for their conduct of the war because it goes without saying obviously that they're one of the two actors involved and since seizing the initiative back in mid-October actively don't give a fuck about civilians in pursuant of their military objectives. Unfortunately like any war between two combatants who both desire to continue to fight nothing can stop them short of outside military intervention.
For example, back in the 1980s during the Iran-Iraq War which is shamefully one of the most overlooked conflicts of the twenty century despite its cataclysmic scale there was a series of UN Security Council resolutions calling for an immediate ceasefire and a return to the pre war borders passed unanimously. They…did jack shit.
United Nations Security Council Resolution 479 - Wikipedia
United Nations Security Council Resolution 514 - Wikipedia
United Nations Security Council Resolution 522 - Wikipedia
United Nations Security Council Resolution 588 - Wikipedia
Until finally after both sides were exhausted:
United Nations Security Council Resolution 598 - Wikipedia
So basically when someone vetoes a security council resolution like the US has done it's usually because the real diplomatic shit is occurring in another venue and not this kabuki theater.
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So much life, history, and culture being lost is absolutely heartbreaking.
I don't think most folks in the US know where Bethlehem is. One would think American Christians would be upset about it.
Maybe their military objective is genocide which is why they don't care about the civilian casualties.
They have been pretty explicitly telling people what their aims are, so not sure why we are acting like the civilian casualties and their "objectives" aren't directly linked.
I agree especially with Netanyahu invoking Amalek. Not to mention, the massive bombing campaign targeting residential buildings and hospitals as well as him and various folks in his government wanting mass displacement of Gazans.
Fuck the Biden Admin for running interference and supplying the weapons for the genocide.
I was thinking about this and I don't really know what a change in the tone of support would be, though. Certainly, I would hope that Biden distances himself from Netanyahu's quest to remain in power.
But I don't know exactly how the Administration backs off from supporting Israel, while also wanting to ensure that other bad actors in the region do not take advance of a divide between the U.S. and Israel. I assume we will see whether or not the public bear hug will continue if Bibi is insistent on his current stance of no Palestinian state.
I wonder if the shifting to more targeted attacks and no more indiscriminate bombing quenches the growing frustrations, whilst Biden pivots to humanitarian aid and working to empower the PA.
Hasn't Biden already indicated that Netanyahu should go or did he walk that back? I honestly and truly don't understand the US's support for him going back to the Obama admin. I know the personal relationship with Obama was actually very bad but that didn't affect US funding or support.
Netanyahu has made it clear from day one that is goal is not peace with the Palestinians. He's the central figure in the decades of bloodshed in the region and needs to go ASAP, preferably to jail.
If anyone here has not watched the PBS documentary "Putin and the Presidents" I highly recommend doing so. It's comprehensive and serves as an excellent breakdown of Putin and his ceaseless methodical attempts to undermine western democracy.
It also paints a pretty clear picture as to just how much Trump's presidency played directly into Putin's hands and I think makes an extremely compelling case for how disastrous another Trump presidency would be for not just the continued actions of Putin but his goals for the destruction of western democracy as a whole.
It also paints a pretty clear picture as to just how much Trump's presidency played directly into Putin's hands and I think makes an extremely compelling case for how disastrous another Trump presidency would be for not just the continued actions of Putin but his goals for the destruction of western democracy as a whole.
He said it in private (I think to donors or other Democrats) but it was downplayed/walked back publicly.
I honestly don't know Biden's strategy anymore with Bibi (I always thought he never liked him to begin with. I do believe he earnestly wants to support Israel, but not sure if being pulled in by Bibi's cruelty). I do hope he gets the boot, but I don't know how feasible that is (and if the alternatives would actually work towards peace).
Thanks for sharing - will give it a watch in a bit!
This is true. No idea why my brain read it as Palestine instead of Gaza.
Biden is friends with Bibi and is an ardent Zionist. His strategy is pretty much to support Israel no matter what including while they commit genocide it seems.
Bethlehem is in the West Bank
Bethlehem - Wikipedia
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I see it was addressed already
The US government under Obama and Biden definitely don't support Bibi himself, there's no love lost there, but they do support Israel as an allied nation and thus can't really speak out much against its duly elected PM. The best you can ever get out of a relationship like that is gentle prodding. For better or worse Netanyahu is on the Israeli people in the same way that Trump is on Americans, votes have consequences.
I knew I got that wrong. I had to double check and I was misinformed.Bethlehem is in the West Bank
Bethlehem - Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org
EDIT:
I see it was addressed already
OP
OP
I just want to wish PoliERA a Happy New Year! Here's hoping its a good one, because it's obviously going to be a very important one due to it being an election year. I know it has been a rocky one for PoliERA specifically, and I want to thank you all for giving me the opportunity to be the new OT creator after, uh, what had happened earlier this year. I hope I've been doing well, and I can't wait to see where 2024 takes us.
Anyway, I'll get a new OT up and running sometime after midnight my time (about 15 hours from now as of this post's writing). Feel free to continue sending OT title and poll ideas until then!
Anyway, I'll get a new OT up and running sometime after midnight my time (about 15 hours from now as of this post's writing). Feel free to continue sending OT title and poll ideas until then!
Poll idea: Who will finish second in delegates:
- Williamson / Haley
- Williamson / Ron
- Philips / Haley
- Philips / Ron
- Chaos
- Williamson / Haley
- Williamson / Ron
- Philips / Haley
- Philips / Ron
- Chaos
Happy New Year. And with all the court cases, may we live in trialling times.
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