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Raftina

Member
Jun 27, 2020
3,663
www.scotusblog.com

Supreme Court to hear case on criminal penalties for homelessness - SCOTUSblog

The Supreme Court will hear oral argument on Monday in a case that one legal expert has called the “most important Supreme Court case about homelessness in at least 40 years.” The issue before the court is the constitutionality of ordinances in an Oregon town that bar people who are homeless from us

The Supreme Court will hear oral argument on Monday in a case that one legal expert has called the "most important Supreme Court case about homelessness in at least 40 years." The issue before the court is the constitutionality of ordinances in an Oregon town that bar people who are homeless from using blankets, pillows, or cardboard boxes for protection from the elements while sleeping within the city limits. Defending the ordinances, the city contends that the laws simply bar camping on public property by everyone. But the challengers in the case counter that the ordinances effectively make it a crime to be homeless in the city.

The dispute before the court on Monday comes to the justices from Grants Pass, a city of just under 40,000 people in southwestern Oregon. With a vacancy rate of one percent and essentially no affordable housing, the city has as many as 600 people experiencing homelessness. The chief operating officer of a nonprofit in the county where the city is located that serves people who are homeless said in a declaration submitted in the case that almost all of the people who are homeless and live in the city do so involuntarily. "There is simply no place in Grants Pass for them to find affordable housing or shelter. They are not choosing to live on the street or in the woods," the nonprofit COO said.

At a 2013 city council meeting to discuss possible solutions to the city's homelessness problem, the city council president suggesting "mak[ing] it uncomfortable enough for [homeless people] in our city so they will want to move on down the road." The city decided to increase enforcement of ordinances that bar the use of blankets, pillows, and even cardboard boxes while sleeping within the city.

The ordinances impose a $295 fine for violations; the fine increases to $537.60 if it is not paid. After two citations, police in Grants Pass can issue an order that bans the individual from city property; a violation of that order exposes the individual to a conviction on criminal trespass charges, which carry penalties of up to 30 days in jail and a $1250 fine.

The argument of the city (Grant Pass, Oregon) reminds of this quote attributed to Anatole France
The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,983
So glad we live in hell would. Eagerly looking forward to the next dictate about how it's totally cool to dehumanize and degrade poor people
 

adj_noun

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
17,311
What if the crime of being unhoused had a mandatory sentence of a home and whatever additional counseling you require to get on your feet.
 

noquarter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,487
Work on solving housing issues or further criminalize being poor. Should be an easy choice to make, but of course the answer given was kick people when they are down.
 

poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,016
the Netherlands
Having a home should be a constitutional right. The fact that some people want being homeless to be a crime is simply pure evil, I don't see any other word to describe it.
 

kowhite

Member
May 14, 2019
4,452
Is there an argument that it's constituional to pass laws like this? Like a good one, not a good enough they'll pass it one.
 

Grunty

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,396
Gruntilda’s Lair
I don't even know what to say… seriously, a crime for being homeless? Instead of helping them, let's find some way to criminalize them. This is disgusting.
 

HTupolev

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,447
Is there an argument that it's constituional to pass laws like this? Like a good one, not a good enough they'll pass it one.
The constitution broadly allows states to do whatever they want, unless explicitly made otherwise. For example, refer to the tenth amendment:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
In other words, in order for laws like this to be constitutional, the Constitution does not need to explicitly enumerate that laws of that sort are allowed: it is sufficient that it merely not outlaw them.

That's why the city is making this stupid argument about how the law applies to "everybody." It's to get in front of objections based on the Equal Protection Clause.
 

hopeblimey

Member
Sep 23, 2023
546
Being homeless already is illegal.

They have charges for illegal camping, sleeping in a car, etc.

The homeless shelters are overflowing. It's literally already criminalized for those that don't get a bed in them.
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,419
I've seen cities trying to criminalize panhandling, so nothing surprises me with how cities treat the poor..
 

Henry Jones Jr

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,735
How could you criminalize harmlessness unless you guarantee housing with no requirements. And even then, how is being homeless not a freedom of choice?
 

fragamemnon

Member
Nov 30, 2017
6,876
Pretty sure this will be 6-3 as well. The 'narrow' argument made vs. the reality on the ground is probably the point the Court will hone in on.

I spent an hour reading through some of the amicus briefs on both sides and talking w/ my wife about this. It's a really hard problem.

The one I liked most was neutral - from Gavin Newsom in support of neither the plaintiff or defendant. Here's a link to the whole thing:

 

Pepsimaaan

Member
Oct 20, 2023
250
This is absolutely another blowjob for the private prison industry and it is frankly one of the most disgusting things you're ever likely to see. We have started down the dark road of treating human beings like expendable commodities.
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
10,034
after they affirm that it is constitutional I never wanna hear that the US is a land of freedom again.
 

HTupolev

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,447
after they affirm that it is constitutional I never wanna hear that the US is a land of freedom again.
Hey, be fair. We make sure to add a freedom for every one or two that we deprecate.

1-Freedom of speech and expression
2-Freedom of worship
3-Freedom from want
4-Freedom from fear

3-Freedom to harass homeless people
 
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pants

Shinra Employee
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,222
Getting "arrested" for being homeless only works if the judicial system provides food, shelter, and an actual path towards a livelihood.
 

Mr Swine

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
6,053
Sweden
So if this goes through, will the GOP use this as a means to influence the elections with bullshit like

"See we have no homeless people, no drugs and crime like there is in blue states!

Vote for Trump!"
 

BeI

Member
Dec 9, 2017
5,996
...The issue before the court is the constitutionality of ordinances in an Oregon town that bar people who are homeless from using blankets, pillows, or cardboard boxes for protection from the elements while sleeping within the city limits...

Probably the most horrible thing I'll read all day. Is the idea to have more legal cover to round up the homeless for more prison slave labor?
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,371
The way our world moves heaven and earth to cape for the well off, especially the rich and then turn around and treat those most in need of help as pariahs is one of the most backward things about our species.
 

Thordinson

Banned
Aug 1, 2018
18,129
Probably the most horrible thing I'll read all day. Is the idea to have more legal cover to round up the homeless for more prison slave labor?

Doubt it. A lot of folks just have straight up disdain for homeless folks.

Pretty sure this will be 6-3 as well. The 'narrow' argument made vs. the reality on the ground is probably the point the Court will hone in on.

I spent an hour reading through some of the amicus briefs on both sides and talking w/ my wife about this. It's a really hard problem.

The one I liked most was neutral - from Gavin Newsom in support of neither the plaintiff or defendant. Here's a link to the whole thing:


It's not a hard problem. Criminalizing homelessness is simply immoral and dehumanizes homeless folks.

It's pretty simple to not criminalize homeless folks. And if one cares about homeless folks, no one should want this. It makes it harder for organizations to find homeless folks to offer services, burdens them with debt they can't pay which in turn means they'll end up back in jail, and is just straight up cruel.
 

SlyShinobi

Member
Dec 3, 2018
858
They're already struggling to just live, why kick them while they're down? Jfc I hate that this is even up for debate. Fuck off with this shit.