US to step aside and allow Turkey to invade Syria, abandoning Kurdish allies
- Thread starter shem
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sorry, I didn't mean you personally, I'm specifically blaming America "as a nation" here.
Because it doesn't impact their day to day.
It's not the answer you want to hear but it's the only explanation I can think of.
Like you said
Why did Americans just watch as their democracy and rule of law was taken away from them?
But you have to understand you're paying more attention than your average citizen here. The average American isn't watching shit. They are focused on their life and their problems and their friends and family problems.
The only time I see my fellow Americans care about people in other countries is after massacres, natural disasters and bombings. Some donate money, clothes and blood
But most just use the special FB frame for their profile picture to show support for said tragedy.
Is the USA a terrorist organisation? It just proves it is an ambiguous term.
I'm Turkish and I really don't know what to say.
The whole situation is tied to the fact that Turkey repressed (some of, obviously) the Kurds in its own borders into becoming terrorists. The PKK has bombed children and kidnapped teachers, they're not just freedom fighters labeled as terrorists by the state (although that is of course part of it).
It's a dangerously convincing pretext for invading Syria and dismantling Kurdish presence there. I don't want the PKK to continue terrorizing southeastern Turkey but this will only enable more terrorist extremism and cause further Kurdish deaths. I don't know if resettlement will happen (I'm of the opinion that Erdoğan will try to adapt the Syrian refugees into Turkey to enhance his voter base), but I can see Turkey using this for ethnic cleansing.
The whole situation is tied to the fact that Turkey repressed (some of, obviously) the Kurds in its own borders into becoming terrorists. The PKK has bombed children and kidnapped teachers, they're not just freedom fighters labeled as terrorists by the state (although that is of course part of it).
It's a dangerously convincing pretext for invading Syria and dismantling Kurdish presence there. I don't want the PKK to continue terrorizing southeastern Turkey but this will only enable more terrorist extremism and cause further Kurdish deaths. I don't know if resettlement will happen (I'm of the opinion that Erdoğan will try to adapt the Syrian refugees into Turkey to enhance his voter base), but I can see Turkey using this for ethnic cleansing.
Damn I wonder what favors happened between trump and turkey during the phone call. Lindsey Graham seemed pretty upset
Excuses, excuses, excuses.
People in other countries work jobs, too.
The US has 325 million inhabitants and you think you can't even get enough together for proper protests?
Thats pathetic tbh.
It's not that interesting. Everything about Erdogan's party AKP are funded by Qatar, KSA and Kuwait (mostly Qatar). Even the Special Forces that's readying to cross the Syrian border.
What they're planning is no secret. Arabize the Kurdish regions of Iraq and Syria, build shitloads of housing for Arab speaking people. It's a win win, Erdogan and his contractor friends get super rich by dumping concrete all over the place and Qatar & other gulf nations get rid of Kurdish "menace" and have a completely arabized crescent.
It's good we have an expert like you who appreciates and understands the issue intimately enough to not oversimplify and misrepresent it. Truly we are fortunate to be allowed to accept your wisdom.
It's good that you are repeating your esteemed President's propaganda that these fighters are PKK.
Last month, your esteemed President was threatening to dump these refugees in the EU.
lol You are joking right? Instead of doing it yourself someone needs to come to the US to fix your mess? Keep throwing your hands in the air and act like there is nothing you can do. That sure seems to be the typical "American" way to fix problems.
You misunderstood me. I said it's a pretext for invasion into Syria. (I don't personally know if they are, but the consensus in Turkey is indeed that the YPG is associated with the PKK.)
What I wanted to explain in the above post is how Turkey itself sees what's happening here.
P. S. It's not the first time he's threatened to dump refugees. Last time, he tried to do so to get Schengen zone clearance for Turkish citizens lol
Edit: What 9-Volt said makes a lot of sense so it's entirely possible that the press being repressed is the reason it appears to be a consensus across the political spectrum.
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If a nation like the US is unable to stand up to fascism and watches idly as their democracy and rule of law is being dismantled before their very eyes this is a testament to civic lethargy and can't be excused by people subjective feeling of being corporate slaves who mustn't fall out of line.
This is a ridiculous capitulation and tbh, this sentiment is one major reason why something like Trump could even happen in the first place.
Btw: This is the very center of Berlin today.
Spontaneously blocked for all cars, only pedestrians and bicycles are free to pass.
This will continue to happen, and it will happen ever more often. It needs to disturb public order.
Until the government passes policy that will ensure that we don't go over our remaining emissions budget.
I'm proud of you and I hope you can get it together and if you need help with something I'll try to do my best to help but please stop acting like nothing can be done and other people should fix your shit.
The situation where a genocide is a very real possibility is not a good time to be hostile or defensive in our inability to do much. Who wanted this to happen it's mostly irrelevant, since it's our collective failure that made this happen and this is our collective responsibility.
"As I have stated strongly before, and just to reiterate, if Turkey does anything that I, in my great and unmatched wisdom, consider to be off limits, I will totally destroy and obliterate the Economy of Turkey (I've done before!). They must, with Europe and others, watch over..."
guys, what the actual fuck
guys, what the actual fuck
I'm not saying they have to fix it, I just think they should be ashamed for sitting there and doing nothing as the world slides into chaos. I guess some people just really don't care about anything but themselves, like 1.21Gigawatts , and would rather make excuses
Congress can block the president from getting US troops out of an area Congress didn't authorize US troops to be deployed?
The people of the world shouldn't be responsible for cleaning up the messes we made ourselves though.
He sounds like a cartoony evil character. Too bad there are no real superheroes since we learned in this very thread that the Americans are too busy to care about their own country, democracy or genocide and the world in general.
Now isn't the time to be pointing fingers, it's time for action.
Like I said it's just shameful, but people are allowed to live in shame. You do you.
yes. cause no one wants the US to abandon our allies. This is a 100% bad move that is bi partisan.
Way ahead of you...
I live in a country where the far right polls below 15%.
I live in a country where 1.4 million people were on the streets just a few days ago to protest against capitalism and an economic system that ruins the planet for future generations.
And these protests will get bigger and bigger and ever more radical with every passing day in which our government doesn't take the necessary action to reform our economic system along the ecological necessities.
I think most people are still fairly comfortable enough (or struggling enough) to either not really care enough, or just struggling to make sure they have food on their table to rise up in protest.
It is happening in London too right now. Trying the same tactic of closing off roads. Not enough being done, but fair play to those out there.
And you don't have the time to move to the US and do the same? Surely the US is more important than your country geopolitically. If you really cared you wouldn't be wasting your time at home when you could be making a bigger difference in the US.
just saying...
Coming from France, this apathy does feel unreal. I guess we must keep faith in the US way of dealing with it. I'm optimistic they will find a legal mean to make him fall.
Idly? I guess we can just makeup whatever we want on top of forming arguments out of ignorance.
Lol the fact you cite population size as a reason it should be easier to do what you ask is hilarious. You have no idea what's happening, why what you want isn't happening or how to make it happen. Before sharing your pronouncements to us all it would be appreciated very much if you could give a shit about understanding the factors at play here. In addition, lazy hyperbole about anyone being idle is probably something you should stop. And I mean in the case you're actually trying to say anything useful. If this is merely aimless, futile flailing about the world not being the way you wish it was and lazy assumptions that there must, must be a way to fix it easily and in the timeframe you desire then go ahead and continue doing what you're doing. It's all everyone else's fault and you're an expert who sees what we can't.
that makes no sense in general, in the US the president can send troops wherever he wants without Congress authorization but to get them out he needs Congress. thats a weird, broken system.
So how is Fox and other Republicans reacting to this? Is it safe to assume they're now saying, "YEAH, SUCK IT KURDS! THEY'VE ALWAYS BEEN THE BAD GUYS AND NOW WE'RE HELPING OUR ISIS FRIENDS!!" and insisting that real heroes that fight for justice promise to help allies, then betraying them and that only morally degenerate liberals make allies and then have their backs?
McConnell is probably already trying to figure out how he can block the Democrats in the Senate from fighting this.
McConnell is probably already trying to figure out how he can block the Democrats in the Senate from fighting this.
Its checks and balances. In this case Trump did something stupid. Congress is the balance to correct that mistake.
What the consensus is in Turkey and what it is in the rest of the world are two different things.
Oh excuse me, I guess I should hear your bs excuses for why you can't make a difference where it counts before I judge 🙄
I love how the geniuses that live in countries where people can spontaneously and easily locate a single hub for their entire country to shut down in response to the politics of that country chime in every fucking time to tell Americans how pathetic they are. Each state can be the size of a country. What exactly do folks living in some blue state achieve by shutting down NYC? Probably a sensible chuckle from every Republican in bumbfuck nowhere that has the voting power of 1000 of those NYC citizens. The closest thing the states has to some type of location that would be swayed by body power is DC, which is also basically a fortress constantly under surveillance. Basically, that requires a whole lot of money for people to decide they want to fly from all parts of the country and stay their for days etc. Most couldnt afford it. Those that can, attend the organized marches and events that we also do here.
You should probably stop thinking that the US is the center of the world. We all have our own Countries problems. Our Countries aren't perfect and need fixing too and we are actively trying to fix problems in our own Countries. So before you start thinking that we should care for your cause first perhaps care less how your country is perceived and just do something about it, instead of searching for excuses.
Oh, I thought the cool thing to do was shame people for things you know nothing about
Pretty sure he is trolling. He has done it before in other threads if I remember correctly.
To me, it's one additional benefit for the GOP of having your voting base in 95% of the geographic United States where still millions upon millions of people live.
If there are riots in NYC, LA, Boston, etc., that's just blue cities preaching to the choir at that point. You aren't going to be able to disrupt the lives of the middle of nowhere, USA as much because those people simply don't see the issue and it's really damn hard for people in blue cities to get out to these remote areas to make red voter's lives miserable.
Or basically this.
We're not living in Europe or most other developed nations where most large population centers are located within a 30-45 minute train ride.
You could shut down the entire Eastern Seaboard and people in Bentonville, Arkansas are still showing up to work at Walmart HQ like nothing is happening probably shaking their heads in unison as they watch Fox News.
He said he likes Trump, but his previous tweet on the subject was too damning to spin. He just has to back his own words. Won't change his support of Trump though, as he said he likes him.