Long term investment in major index funds seems pretty safe to me, especially if you spread out your investments over time.
VICE: ‘It's a Bloodbath’: The Crypto Crash Is Real
- Thread starter Coyote Starrk
- Start date
- Status
Literally the other way around? The stock market *just* came out of the greatest 10+ year bull-run in its history.
Yeah, my index funds have dropped a good bit over the last few weeks, but I know I've got plenty of time for them to creep back up. I feel bad for anyone planning to retire off of them soon. (But I suppose at that point you've diversified your portfolio enough into money markets and things that you come out ok in the wash.)
That doesn't mean that much of it isn't a scam. To the contrary, actually. The same dynamics we know from crypto increasingly influenced the stock market.
What the stock market has as a "safeguard" are huge national banks to bail out its biggest players ("too big to fail") with tax payer money whenever a big crash is looming. Which is part of the scam.
The S&P 500 is up about 470% since 2009 even after this crash. It's the biggest bull run in history.
No, unless you are some small hedge fund manager or day trader, all of the data disagrees with your assessment. All 4 major U.S. indices have performed well over the past two decades, even accounting for the dot com bubble and 2008.
What dynamics?
Same for me. I bought into Doge for $100. Last I checked, it was down at around $35. Oh well. It is what it is. For those who invested a lot more into crypto, it's sad.
Crypto looked even better half a year ago. Not sure what your (and others') argument is here.
Depends on the exchange, sometimes yes you'd be in a stablecoin. On something like Coinbase you could be holding actual USD (not FDIC insured, but real). Which you could then cash out to a real bank. In a crypto wallet you can only hold crypto coins, and you can only send crypto coins between wallets - that is the primary reason for stablecoins, really. And it's only one particular stablecoin crashing (dying, more like) here - Terra's UST. The whole Terra "economy" has just been nuked by a Soros-style "break the bank" attack. It's just getting mixed up in reporting with the overall market downturn. Terra's USD wasn't a hugely notable stablecoin, unlike USDT (Tether), which if it explodes would be really something.
yeah its still *knocks on wood* a valid alternative compared to putting money in a bank account and hope that one day interest rates suddenly get worth it. In the end, there is no "safe" investment; there is always a risk involved. A diversified portfolio is still key and mitigates that risk; but modern "people" have no patience and somehow expect big returns in short timeframes and goe "woe is me" if disaster strikes. And currently, we are still dealing with a pandemic and now a war.
Unless you are a daytrader; its way more sensible to manage your expectations in decades, and not years.
It sure is a bloodbath.
I've never seen something like this happen(in real-time).
Saw Luna drop from around $80 to $10, I thought to myself it fell soo much, this should be the floor right, but nooo, It went to fking below $1.
People lost a lot of money on this. People should not put their life-saving in crypto or stocks.
Only invest what you are willing to lose.
PS: it doesn't matter how much your crypto/stock is up if you don't sell/take profit.
The crypto/stock influencer say "You don't lose if you don't sell", but remember you also didn't win if your gains are unrealized
I've never seen something like this happen(in real-time).
Saw Luna drop from around $80 to $10, I thought to myself it fell soo much, this should be the floor right, but nooo, It went to fking below $1.
People lost a lot of money on this. People should not put their life-saving in crypto or stocks.
Only invest what you are willing to lose.
PS: it doesn't matter how much your crypto/stock is up if you don't sell/take profit.
The crypto/stock influencer say "You don't lose if you don't sell", but remember you also didn't win if your gains are unrealized
Luckily I'm still up on my Dogecoin investment. Glad I got in so early, otherwise that huge $5 investment I made could have ruined me.
You responded to this...
With this...GYODX said:
Considering crypto as a trading asset has barely existed for the last decade, let alone two, I assumed you were talking about the stock market.Bedlam said:
Which is obviously patently false. The stock market has had the longest sustained growth in history over the last decade and a bit. The stock market has never had the volatility that crypto has, unless you're talking about penny stocks.
Again, 100+ year track record vs 13 year track record.
And that's without even getting into the fact that the stock market is ultimately anchored in the productive capacity of American labor, while crypto is anchored in literally nothing except FOMO.
Think about it this way: when Hertz went bankrupt, they still had a fleet of thousands of cars they could sell. If Bitcoin goes to zero, what is left?
When that game aired I was immediately reminded of the first Pats/Rams super bowl with all the dotcom commercials. I wondered who would be pets.com.
OP
OP
I agree: casinos feed addictions in terribly unhealthy ways, no doubt, but they're not packaged as if return on investment is guaranteed. Crypto has been the exact opposite.
There are none. People tend to extrapolate the Theranos and Wirecard fiascos as a representation of the market in general, when those are by statistical definition outliers.
Like, despite what the drop in stock price may indicate, your investment in something like EXC or CAT isn't fundamentally affected because those "boring" companies are still making money. The very existence of utilities and industrials in the stock market alone make the whole comparison to crypto ridiculous, as the latter doesn't have anything remotely comparable with regard to a modicum of stability.
Embracer Group just made out like fucking bandits.
Bitcoin has limited functionality, it will probably recover eventually.
Most other coins have zero function
This time around, he's tried to 'legitimize' his current stablecoin by use of something called Anchor - a scheme where he'd issue a token that promises an annual return of 20% in exchange for purchasing and staking TerraUSD. Where does that 20% return come from? Who knows - some say it's based on VC funding, some say it's based on selling Bitcoin reserves, some say it's the result of printing Luna Terra and dumping it. Could be all three. Either way, it's a Ponzi scheme that was designed as a trick to give legitimacy to his stablecoin - not that it's actually helping much.
Holy crap that Terraluna subreddit is something else. The bringing up of older posts that spoke to the problems with the coin is fascinating. Some people just 4 month ago went into very deep explanations as to what the pitfall could be and they were mocked as not understanding the coin when in fact they understood it way more than the supporters.
As for the crypto situation overall I lost like 3k crypto years ago when Quadriga here in Canada went belly up. I still have maybe 1k or so on Coinbase but after Quadriga I stopped caring about it. I just watched my tiny dogecoin investment($25 go to $750)for lulz.
As for the crypto situation overall I lost like 3k crypto years ago when Quadriga here in Canada went belly up. I still have maybe 1k or so on Coinbase but after Quadriga I stopped caring about it. I just watched my tiny dogecoin investment($25 go to $750)for lulz.
If it falls below $28k, it's a long fall before any support levels. Given the recent events, who knows where it could end up but this will fundamentally shake up the entire market on a scale we've never really seen before. It's pretty much the crypto equivalent of a bank run at this point.
For real the entire stock market has been a wild mess for the last ten years watching how so much is wildly inflated beyond any rational value based purely from speculation and monetary policy that has basically just been pumping monopoly dollars into the stock market to prop it up and up and up ever since the aftermath of the great recession. The correction happening recently has been needed for *ages* and frankly I hope it continues for a good while longer.
See, this is why crypto needs to crash for good. It still isn't common knowledge that the fundamentals of a broad stock index has concrete value in part ownership of business that provides jobs, services, art, health, and productivity. We still have to argue it's merit over pretend currency which is supposed to go up in value exponentially forever for reasons.
I don't think Crypto was ever really a natural resource or anything lol
People are buying purely speculative, deregulated, digital currencies. Not sure there's much legal ground to stand on when the speculative asset that is backed by nothing ends up being nothing itself. They've received exactly what they paid for.
The stock market is backed by assets. It's absolutely not zero sum. (But Bitcoin is!)
The problem with small investors are they are winning all the same, but they're small. The problem isn't the market is rigged, it's that they don't have any disposable income to participate in the first place due to decades of falling real wages.
Hell, most of the allure of crypto was getting in on something new and cheap that people could afford before it was wildly adopted. The low barrier to entry was part of the hype and many spin offs.
Who are you going to sue, the blockchain? What assets could they sell off?
There's basically no recourse.
That crypto has no real world backing, while the stock market is ownership stakes in real, tangible entities that are still doing business.
Netflix has been tanking but Netflix is still an active company that can A. improve their fortunes B. sell out for a better than current market rate price or C. level and just turn into a reliable mid-tier stock, all of which still offer a secure value floor.
There is no bottom to crypto.
The issue with the stock market stems from a disproportionate amount of the market being traded by a small percentage of already incredibly wealthy people who are primarily concerned with just seeing that wealth grow. In pursuit of that end much of the investment class has become drunk on incredible share value growth rates and now only see share growth as the vehicle to greater wealth. This is why we have tech companies like much of the "FAANG" crew dropping. It isn't because they aren't incredibly large, diverse, profitable, and powerful. Its because their growth curves are levelling out after having unlimited access to 90% of the planet during a global pandemic.
ZOOM is a great example of this. Still doing well, but not astronomically well like it obviously did during the pandemic, so now its dropping like a stone even though its fundamentals are good. Does it have $500/share fundamentals? Only if a global pandemic pops up every few years (which, yeah, maybe). But is its floor really just about at pre-pandemic levels when most people and companies are very much keeping a foot in the remote/distanced living ecosystems? Also not likely. But the investor class are pulling their money because ZOOM is only delivering double digit growth, not triple digit growth, so they're off to find the next triple digit growth monster. When they move en masse its like a heard of elephants, trampling whole market sectors as they chase the next thing.
Microsoft has seen something of a drop of late but has resisted the larger hits many other large tech sector firms have seen because Microsoft has a longer, established ownership base, and actually pays dividends (paying the profits made for the year back to shareholders).
Amazon has never paid dividends to my knowledge. The closest Google has ever come was a large stock buyback to boost share price. They're both great examples of tech companies where owning their stock is entirely to speculate on the growth of their stock, not to be part of the for profit model of a for profit business.
So well ran, profitable companies with solid dividend histories are weathering this market better than most because they have a larger ratio of shareholders who are there for the long term, not just to speculate and run.
But that doesn't mean the whole thing is going tits up. The core of the market are real companies still providing real services. It isn't that hard to build a portfolio that largely just focuses on good dividend companies and end up doing really well. In part because they're actually giving you, the shareholder, your rightful cut of the profits and in part because companies that reliably pay dividends are reliably profitable and therefore stable, long lived, and well positioned to rise with the tide and better weather the fall than their share value focused peers.
- Status