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Luminish

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,508
Denver
We dont even have to look back at history to see how certain actions do not lead to the outcome people insist they will. Trump is almost 100% going to be impeached but not convicted. A reasonable look at the circumstances can lead you to that understanding and that failed impeachments aren't justice.


In what reality could she have done anything that leads to a Trump conviction? You're are looking for a scapegoat.
Point is It's not the republicans or public opinion holding the Dems back on anything but Ukraine and Russia. It's them protecting themselves from having to be held accountable for doing the same stuff to differing degrees.

It's true removal from office is unlikely under any scenario, but the discomforting uncertainty and the hit to your reputation that comes from pushback is still something, and you have to take everything you can get.
 

Luminish

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,508
Denver
Washington Post ran that the intel was bad for months when Bush was drumming up war. This isn't some shocking revelation. Weird to be mad at her a dozen plus years later for something we already knew and which anybody working in Washington would've been clearly aware of. The country at large was convinced. Washington knew better and didn't care.
They most certainly did not. I'd love to see an example because I think you're rewriting history of the news coverage of the war by making that claim. That was 100% not the environment at the time.

There was like one Op-Ed writer in the New York Times against the war. That's it.
 

SSF1991

Member
Jun 19, 2018
3,263
I don't care whether this happened 10 years ago or 50 years ago. Many, many people died. Because of a lie. I haven't forgotten about that, and it still pisses me the fuck off.

And what will also always piss me off is that they got away with it. Mainly because Democrats just all but sat there and let it happen.

What a god damn shame.
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
They most certainly did not. I'd love to see an example because I think you're rewriting history of the news coverage of the war by making that claim. That was 100% not the environment at the time.

There was like one Op-Ed writer in the New York Times against the war. That's it.
Yep. Very fucking few were willing to die on that hill. The war was a boulder rolling downhill. Your options were to step aside, get behind it, or get run over. Stopping it was never a thing.
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,164
They most certainly did not. I'd love to see an example because I think you're rewriting history of the news coverage of the war by making that claim. That was 100% not the environment at the time.

There was like one Op-Ed writer in the New York Times against the war. That's it.
I'm not rewriting anything. I grew up in DC and went to school in the Midwest. I'd come home and see the paper, then go back to school and it was like entering an alternate reality. You're not wrong that the vast majority of the media was promoting war.
 

y2dvd

Member
Nov 14, 2017
2,481
It's becoming quite clear that Era mods have an anti-leftist bias. This post isn't inflammatory in any way and it's a pretty common leftist thought. Liberals will absolutely excuse the actions Democrats make in regards to foreign policy. We have so many people here who consider Obama to be a good president despite him killing a lot of brown people overseas. That shit just gets ignored or excused. we had a thread that basically said that Obama's only scandal was the tan suit thing, but how his drone strikes killed an American teenager was largely ignored.

This ban should be reversed.

Hey I've attempted to contact mods before with no response but is it stickied anywhere elaborating on these types of bans and examples of it? because I'm looking at these bans and im scratching my head here. I am willing to take this to DM but I don't know who to contact.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Y'all really gonna ban Inuhanyou and Helio for stating the obvious? I'm sorry, but the statement that, in general, most liberals don't really care about brown people dying overseas is...largely true. Most Americans either don't really know the degree to which our military murders civilians overseas, or knows and doesn't really care.

If you vote to increase the military budget, you are showing you don't care. If you support drone strikes, you are showing you don't care. If you support the invasion of foreign states, the destabilization of foreign states, or don't use your position and power to attempt to stop those acts...you are showing you don't care. How is that inflammatory? It's the truth.
 
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Deffers

Banned
Mar 4, 2018
2,402
I don't really see how you can call it a conspiracy when mods have had to reverse a ban on a leftist member twice in the past two days. If you have to course-correct, it implies you went too hard the first time, which demonstrates bias. Apharmd's ban in particular was an egregious display of that bias-- if mods didn't have bias, they wouldn't have had to change a three month ban to a warning after a period of reflection. This is absurd.
 

Prolepro

Ghostwire: BooShock
Banned
Nov 6, 2017
7,310
Y'all really gonna ban Inuhanyou and Helio for stating the obvious? I'm sorry, but the statement that, in general, most liberals don't really care about brown people dying overseas is...largely true. Most Americans either don't really know the degree to which our military murders civilians overseas, or knows and doesn't really care.

If you vote to increase the military budget, you are showing you don't care. If you support drone strikes, you are showing you don't care. If you support the invasion of foreign states, the destabilization of foreign states, or don't use your position and power to attempt to stop those acts...you are showing you don't care. How is that inflammatory? It's the truth.
☝️☝️☝️
 

Deleted member 48897

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 22, 2018
13,623
This war has gone on for over 15 years and has no sense of an end goal. Maybe if they'd gotten this out ot the public at the time, even if we couldn't have kept it from happening, maybe we would have gotten the political will to stop it. We still can, and should. It's not like the war has gotten more popular with time, either.

The cost of the war has been severe both in money and, of course, human lives, and all Pelosi has to say to say about it is stumbling over her words. I swear, the dems have not gotten over the Clinton impeachment, even now.
 

Deleted member 3968

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
888
This war has gone on for over 15 years and has no sense of an end goal. Maybe if they'd gotten this out ot the public at the time, even if we couldn't have kept it from happening, maybe we would have gotten the political will to stop it. We still can, and should. It's not like the war has gotten more popular with time, either.

The cost of the war has been severe both in money and, of course, human lives, and all Pelosi has to say to say about it is stumbling over her words. I swear, the dems have not gotten over the Clinton impeachment, even now.
They never got over Reagan.
 

linkboy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,850
Reno
I agree with her reasoning, at least not wanting impeachment to become a way of life in this country. Would you have liked it if the republican congress has impeached Obama over anything they wanted? Romney would've won, if they'd impeached him in 2010, after they took control?

Tell that to the people who lost their lives in that bullshit war (and I say this as a veteran who was in Iraq in 08), or the people who came back damaged. No war is worth more then the president.

Her reasoning is 100% pure bullshit.
 

Quzar

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,166
Weird that avoiding impeachment is the primary goal over lives lost. Its almost as if both parties involved have no regard for the people they govern over.
 

Kilic95

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,393
Chireiden
Y'all really gonna ban Inuhanyou and Helio for stating the obvious? I'm sorry, but the statement that, in general, most liberals don't really care about brown people dying overseas is...largely true. Most Americans either don't really know the degree to which our military murders civilians overseas, or knows and doesn't really care.

If you vote to increase the military budget, you are showing you don't care. If you support drone strikes, you are showing you don't care. If you support the invasion of foreign states, the destabilization of foreign states, or don't use your position and power to attempt to stop those acts...you are showing you don't care. How is that inflammatory? It's the truth.

 

DadsBoyfriend

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
163
I think it's time for Americans to grow up. How is it we can all live decades with literal bogus wars in the backdrop and celebrate our troops and the war machine.

Reducing military funding kills your election. Both republican and Democrat.

We all know it was a lie since Saudis blew up the wtc.

The status quo is more important than dead relatives.
This. So much this. Thank you for this comment. It's very personal to me, and hard to talk about.
 
Clarification

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
Official Staff Communication
The reason for Inuhanyou's ban was because suggesting that literally no liberal and/or Democrat cares about minorities is an inflammatory generalization. The ban was 1 week. A poster with a reciprocal generalization was sent to review. We've received numerous complaints about the toxic and hostile environment in political threads, and so this has been an area of focus recently.

If you have further questions please contact a mod captain for concerns about moderation. Please do not derail the thread.
 

mescalineeyes

Banned
May 12, 2018
4,444
Vienna
you could just trim your Schtick down to "centrist!" and save ascii characters at this point.
I feel that's being a bit reductive. My whole issue with Pelosi is that she's not even left enough to be considered centrist, as one of her biggest achievements is passing a healthcare bill that was essentially written by a right-wing think tank.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
I feel that's being a bit reductive. My whole issue with Pelosi is that she's not even left enough to be considered centrist, as one of her biggest achievements is passing a healthcare bill that was essentially written by a right-wing think tank.
Pelosi has a lot of shitty characteristics but this line of attack is pretty absurd for reasons mentioned a billion times
 

Deleted member 14459

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,874
Idk man, y'all need to balance your idealism out with some pragmatism

Being complicit in coverup and support for the atrocities that were completely predictable is not 'pragmatism' neither is basing the justification of inaction on some halfsedimented justified beliefs and neither is offhand rejection of plurality. If anything it is a mix of relativism and nihilism.
 

Starmud

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,450
She has a lot of company. She's hardly the first person in a position of power to know or even say the lead up to Iraq was bullshit but went along with it. Many in the media alone encouraged the war beat while suppressing coverage of information saying otherwise because of the atmosphere after 9/11 and the appetite for war.

Also, believing impeachment can somehow be a mechanic that easily navigated or free of politics is a bit too naive. Given the time table of the Iraq war, him being rewarded with a second term and when general opinion began to change about the war, attempting to impeach bush would have been an obvious L for dems.
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,116
Being complicit in coverup and support for the atrocities that were completely predictable is not 'pragmatism' neither is basing the justification of inaction on some halfsedimented justified beliefs and neither is offhand rejection of plurality. If anything it is a mix of relativism and nihilism.

It is beyond cynical for sure. Cannon fodder statistical write-off kind of shit because you believe the populace is so regressively deficient that they would destroy you for not lying to them.
And then we, the USA as a whole, justify ourselves by saying "shame, but of course the other ways would've been worse, probably".

And thus the transaction comes to form - how many bodies is worth the lie? How many bodies to maintain the lie?
 

Xiao Hu

Chicken Chaser
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,497
Such cold, calculated contempt for the lives of brown people. She's a truly disgusting human...
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,614
Bandung Indonesia
I will say this.

She doesn't care about brown people. And people in here making arguments on her behalf to her defense also do not care about brown people, and don't you fucking dare to pretend otherwise.
 

Arkanim94

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,435
One day liberals will realize that trying to play nice with conservatives never works.

One day...
 

Xx 720

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,920
The trouble with impeachment is that it can backfire - the public just isn't comfortable with regime change unless it comes from voting politicians out. Also, in the case of Bush - we would of been left with Cheney as president which would of been way worse.
 

Quzar

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,166
You are responsible for your actions, you are responsible for who you vote for and what they do. Dont be quick to shoot the messengers that tell you this. Seems like a lot of people in here are trying to absolve themselves.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
You are responsible for your actions, you are responsible for who you vote for and what they do. Dont be quick to shoot the messengers that tell you this. Seems like a lot of people in here are trying to absolve themselves.
Just to be clear, if more people had voted for Gore, the Iraq war wouldn't have happened. Pelosi is absolutely shit, but the responsibility isn't on the people who voted dem for the iraq war.
 

Quzar

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,166
Just to be clear, if more people had voted for Gore, the Iraq war wouldn't have happened. Pelosi is absolutely shit, but the responsibility isn't on the people who voted dem for the iraq war.
I agree, no arguments here.
Edit: However, if you did vote for someone who put pelosi in power you share the responsibility. Just to be clear.
 
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CeeCee

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,118
I'm absolutely fucking sick of this forum privileging the feelings of white American posters over everything else.

ERA is apparently a beacon of progressiveness on the internet, right? Great joke.
 

Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,838
I've been trying not to dogpile on the moderation because they've been getting a lot of shit, but man...
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,510
The lives lost in Iraq and elsewhere might as well be seen as sacrifices, all to maintain a ''way of life''.

These politicians will be the end of us if we don't change this. But this is what'll happen, we'll continue to twiddle our thumbs and not do shit, because the status quo warriors will do their utmost in making sure we never move.

I'm absolutely fucking sick of this forum privileging the feelings of white American posters over everything else.

ERA is apparently a beacon of progressiveness on the internet, right? Great joke.
Facts. This shit is beginning to be infuriating, had a bad experience myself here these past few days.
What use is there to argue against this shit when it does feel like our lives don't matter to these people.

Every day I feel like liberals let me down, as a black person, as a Muslim, as a leftist. We're always told better things aren't possible and when there is pushback we're told to shut the fuck up or worse.

So what's the point?
 
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Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,910
Japan
I don't understand why Pelosi is the focus as opposed to the Democrats who voted yes. Pelosi could not have prevented the Iraq war and she could not have stopped the Iraq war. Is she an amazing politician who deserves adoration and praise? No, but... Why focus all attention on her?
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,510
I don't understand why Pelosi is the focus as opposed to the Democrats who voted yes. Pelosi could not have prevented the Iraq war and she could not have stopped the Iraq war. Is she an amazing politician who deserves adoration and praise? No, but... Why focus all attention on her?
I mean..in this specific instance, she's the subject of discussion.
 

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
Guys I get the frustrations, and criticizing bad ideas/ideals/decisions/situations is understandable.

Painting with a broad brush and calling all of us "Liberals" as uncaring dicks who abuse foreigners is too far. As you could see at the time not all of us were for the war; even though the majority of the public was due to the bloodlust patriotism and hunger for revenge justice of 9/11. I both understand her decision for it but still think she should have done more.

They(Dems) all should have done more than they did. Dems' lack of spine is a problem; Regan and the schalocking they received pushed them to far into being "safe" whereas now (I hope) they're learning to be better.
 

mescalineeyes

Banned
May 12, 2018
4,444
Vienna
(I hope) they're learning to be better.

let me just say this is a beautiful post and I 100% support your sentiment. THAT SAID:

to me it's clear that they haven't. they're still backing the same basic ideology that lost to Trump. I am with Warren on the fact that the first thing the next president needs to do is completely root out the foothold of money in US politics because that way we'll keep getting shitty dems.
(the GOP is beyond saving I mean come on lol)
 

Quzar

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,166
Guys I get the frustrations, and criticizing bad ideas/ideals/decisions/situations is understandable.

Painting with a broad brush and calling all of us "Liberals" as uncaring dicks who abuse foreigners is too far. As you could see at the time not all of us were for the war; even though the majority of the public was due to the bloodlust patriotism and hunger for revenge justice of 9/11. I both understand her decision for it but still think she should have done more.

They(Dems) all should have done more than they did. Dems' lack of spine is a problem; Regan and the schalocking they received pushed them to far into being "safe" whereas now (I hope) they're learning to be better.
I think most people are saying that everyone is responsible for the actions of their leaders, they placed them there after all. I definitely take my responsibility in voting for Obama and the actions he took, I don't absolve myself of the things my country commits. I put more thought into who I vote for locally and am more politically activated I guess. Establishment Dems aren't going to suddenly grow a spine and start pushing back against anything.
 

TheHunter

Bold Bur3n Wrangler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,774
I think most people are saying that everyone is responsible for the actions of their leaders, they placed them there after all. I definitely take my responsibility in voting for Obama and the actions he took, I don't absolve myself of the things my country commits. I put more thought into who I vote for locally and am more politically activated I guess. Establishment Dems aren't going to suddenly grow a spine and start pushing back against anything.
let me just say this is a beautiful post and I 100% support your sentiment. THAT SAID:

to me it's clear that they haven't. they're still backing the same basic ideology that lost to Trump. I am with Warren on the fact that the first thing the next president needs to do is completely root out the foothold of money in US politics because that way we'll keep getting shitty dems.
(the GOP is beyond saving I mean come on lol)
You assume my hope lies in the establishment Dems :P

My hope is the Warrens, Sanders and Squads of the dems win out, or at least rest enough control to make the dems better by osmosis.
 

klonere

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
3,439
Just to be safe, every American president should undergo mandatory Nuremberg style trials after they leave office, with the death penalty being the primary punishment of anyone found guilty of warcrimes.

It's probably the only way of saving lives from the American imperialist war machine. God knows their own politicians and citizens aren't going to do the job.
 

Quzar

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,166
You assume my hope lies in the establishment Dems :P

My hope is the Warrens, Sanders and Squads of the dems win out, or at least rest enough control to make the dems better by osmosis.
Sanders (and probably the Squad) is a socialist though. That's some great optimism for sure, I'd like to hope that that's true.
 

mescalineeyes

Banned
May 12, 2018
4,444
Vienna
You assume my hope lies in the establishment Dems :P

My hope is the Warrens, Sanders and Squads of the dems win out, or at least rest enough control to make the dems better by osmosis.

I agree, but its up to the constituents to decide who "they" are then, because I don't feel enough ideological movement within individual representatives.

Just to be safe, every American president should undergo Nuremberg style trials after they leave office, with the death penalty being the primary punishment of anyone found guilty of warcrimes.

this rules. you rock.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,510
We gotta b real here mates, no self respecting lib gives a shit about brown people across the globe, no matter how many die due to US influence(regardless of the administration)

This thread is two pages and will soon be at the bottom of the heap along with every other genocide level disaster.

Its just the kind of comfortable mindset these types have, like Ellen for example. Its how she can get away with saying "you can be friends with people you disagree" to a war criminal and still have people lining up to defend it ad nauseum
It's becoming quite clear that Era mods have an anti-leftist bias. This post isn't inflammatory in any way and it's a pretty common leftist thought. Liberals will absolutely excuse the actions Democrats make in regards to foreign policy. We have so many people here who consider Obama to be a good president despite him killing a lot of brown people overseas. That shit just gets ignored or excused. we had a thread that basically said that Obama's only scandal was the tan suit thing, but how his drone strikes killed an American teenager was largely ignored.

This ban should be reversed.

I'm sorry, even with the explanation from the mod here, how is this in anyway acceptable? There really needs to be a serious discussion with regards to moderation in political discussions. Hell, where is our representation on the leftist front? Is our view not acceptable here or what?

Helio and Inuhanyou said nothing here that would warrant a ban, in a place where war criminals and the like are defended, these are the posts that get derided?
Where struggle sessions are constantly had, simply asking others to note that the politicians they love so much happen to be completely terrible people.

That is banworthy? That is considered trolling? I've been having this experience for months, I've had to ignore some liberals here because they refused to read my POV and regard it as emotional nonsense. I've seen other leftists here go through the same experience, time and time again.

Are we a nuisance here or what?

What I'm asking here, is for this to be reconsidered, the past few days have been particularly annoying, the claims of "fuelling wars between communities" is rich considering I've had to ignore several people for disingenuously claiming my posts were banworthy in another thread, where they had to conjure up narratives and claim that I was such and such. And I couldn't say shit about it.

There absolutely is a specific bias here, and we should be allowed to call it out. Otherwise why hold anyone accountable?

I'm very sorry for derailing the thread for others. But I had to vent. I hope some of what I'm saying makes sense and honestly, all I want is for the moderation to be better and more transparent.
 
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