Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,061
My title fucked up while typing on my phone :(

This link is something very very relatable to me. The American Dream is a farce and life is too short to just wither here for the rest of my life.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entr...nt-be-coming-back_us_5adf7407e4b07be4d4c57b26

I'm living and working a pretty good corporate job and yet several family tragedies, medical expenses, and hostile work life balance culture in the US is pushing me and my spouse to our breaking points here.

I want to rant about how I basically every time I leave the US to another developed or closely-developing country, I have a PTSD-caliber bout of panic and dread when I have to get back on the plane to go back to the US and its culture, politics, and social systems.

Last time I went to France (my second visit) I had a breakdown and cried softly in a corner next to a statue at a museum on my last day when I had to go to the airport in a few hours. Literally on the verge of a panic attack at the idea of going back to Texas where most people around me are proud of their bigoted, uneducated society of bad healthcare, anti-socialism, working all year long without guaranteed vacation or benefits and crushing student debt until you die, only to be made bankrupt at the slightest life circumstance. And for what? Watching most of the French value culture, history, education, and a sense of social purpose and unity with their fellow countrymen was something I was extremely attracted to. It made going back to the extreme LIE of the American Dream unbearable.


But you (I) go back. You settle back into the monotony of American middle class life. The neurotic budgeting of every little expense to try to make ends meet. $600 for public university student loans. $500 for a car loan and insurance because your city doesn't have public transit. $1000-2000 for rent or mortgage. My husband is a public school teacher who pays $600 fucking dollars a month for an Aetna HMO with almost no doctors available and an $8,000 deductible. Where does all the money in the US middle class paycheck go? You just fall back into the monotony of accepting that life sucks. You're there to work 40-60 hours a week if you're lucky or juggle 2-3 jobs to afford a lack of benefits if you're not. You become numb to the concept that life should be enjoyed. You just age. At least that's my experience.


Now I'm on another trip. I visited family in Colombia and enjoyed a beautiful culture of warm people, good food, and surprisingly decent social benefits for a country that have survived 50 years of war and violence. I was in the car on the way to a flight back from Colombia to the US. I'm a dual citizen. I was talking to my family and getting angry as they told me that it only costs $50 per month for the basic fucking access to a (honestly not great, but it's something) pension at 55 years old, decent risk insurance, and full health coverage where you don't pay more than like $100 a year for any total of health expenses. A $200 inhaler in the US costs $20 here. $18 in cold medicine is $4 here. The system covers most costs. And after dealing with the expensive nightmare of the healthcare system in the US for elders and caregiving, I don't want to grow old there when in Colombia I could doctors and nurses come take care of me in my home when I'm old. And that's not even considering other costs of living that I feel robbed on...good internet, TV, and cell phone may not cost more than $50 per month together. I'm here with two lines at T-mobile for almost $150, and my service is garbage.

Colombia has many problems and I'm not a fan of the president they just elected, but I'm bitter that even the country I fled in the 90s has a more human system and culture than whatever ignorance we're breeding stateside.

Being back in Colombia, my anxiety symptoms softened. My palpitations eased with the warmth of good food, nice people, and beautiful culture of living life peacefully. Much like I saw with the French. And the Spanish. And most countries in Europe I've visited.

Every time I leave the US I'm fatally close to a spastic scene of quitting my job and draining my 401k and just LEAVING. The middle class is disappearing and the situation is oppressively expensive. Cops are shooting people down and we are working to pay bills, try to avoid bankruptcy from debts, and then you die.

I just wanted to rant that I'm dreading going back. Does anyone else feel this way? Has anyone here moved out of the US and felt an immense sense of relief?

I have some really special medical problems AND I'm gay married so I need to plan for if I move out of the US, but trips away from the states inspire me to begin planning now.
 
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legacyzero

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,252
I SOOOoooo wanna go to Sweden, Norway, etc. Seems peaceful. That fucktown of a country is getting on my goddamn nerves
 

Deleted member 44129

User requested account closure
Banned
May 29, 2018
7,690
I can't remember the exact phrase, but it's something along the lines of "The more money you spend on travel, the richer your life is"
 
Oct 27, 2017
43,222
Maybe you should move out of Texas?

Also you're going to other countries, seeing tiny glimpse of them, and extrapolating that experience to what it'd be like if you lived there which is flawed to say the least. Every country has its problems and you're not going to notice them as a tourist or in a short visit
 

SABO.

Member
Nov 6, 2017
5,872
Realize that people working in those countries feel the same about yours the way you feel about theirs. Everyone going through a tough time wants to escape and see the grass as greener somewhere else.

Going on a short trip to somewhere is not representative of living a long term life there.
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,466
At least it's not Canada OP. But I agree most countries are more interesting than north america. Depending on what you like of course.
 

V23

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,964
Sounds like a 'grass is always greener' type mood. A lot of places are fantastic to visit but, if you actually lived there, their flaws (which every country has) would become evident.
 

Bluebot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
646
Japan
I feel the same way. The most significant attachment to the United States that I have is my family. My fiance is Japanese and resides there. We often talk about where we will live and for how long. When I think about leaving America, being so far from my family is the only negative that I believe I will never fully overcome. Still, I think I we will settle down in Japan, so I am fortunate for that opportunity or even choice.

I come from a not so affluent part of the United States in middle America. I can never convey to her quite adequately how much of a paradise her country is in many ways compared to America. I try to tell her about many of the garbage aspects of America that are so base level; she has a hard time believe I am telling the truth.
 

frankenstrat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
999
If the healthcare system in the US doesn't improve by my middle age (and I get further as a software/web developer) I'm going to be most likely talking about leaving with my wife. The last thing I want to do as we both retire and age is worry that medical costs will put us in a hole.
 

Bitanator

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,105
Move to California, the smell of weed and fire ash on your clothes is the only thing you need to worry about
 

Tbm24

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,325
Perspective matters, couldn't pay me to move to DR for example. I've toyed with the idea of moving to Europe, Spain in particular but I have so few family that I think would actively accept me and my family just showing up that I just say nah. Even then, all I hear is problems finding work there anyway.

In my life plans I have it that I want to live at least about a year abroad. I'm working on my wife getting her Italian citizenship through her grandmother who was born there. That's in turn should net me and my daughter EU passports. We'll see, my current company has a branch in Berlin that currently building up. Who knows.

All that aside, I love America, can't see myself ever leaving it forever.
 

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,422
I'm all for moving to Norway where we have friends. By my wife wants to be here until her parents are gone. My parents? I'd move to Norway.
 

Ryuelli

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,209
Realize that people working in those countries feel the same about yours the way you feel about theirs.

I saw this while living abroad in Korea for 4 years. Most of my Korean friends would love to move to the US, meanwhile I was glad to be out. They told me Korea was hell, I just it was heaven compared to the US with gun control, affordable healthcare, and the entire country valuing education. They didn't see it that way and were planning to leave the second they could.

I'm back in the US now, working on getting to certified to teach here. Once I have that certification I'm probably going to look at schools in other countries again, maybe Canada or international schools in Asia (unless the US starts looking better by the end of 2020).


Would love to live in Sweden/Norway/Denmark, etc, but as someone who definitely doesn't qualify for any STEM jobs I don't think I have any qualifications they would want.
 

Hollywood Duo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
43,283
Realize that people working in those countries feel the same about yours the way you feel about theirs. Everyone going through a tough time wants to escape and see the grass as greener somewhere else.

Going on a short trip to somewhere is not representative of living a long term life there.
Right there was literary just a huge demonstration in Paris by working class citizens about their quality of life.
 

Cup O' Tea?

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,616
I feel sorry for Americans really. The richest nation in the world not even having public healthcare is fucking disgusting and frankly pathetic. I'd advocate a bloody revolution but history tells us you will only end up with something even worse on the other side of it.
 

Deepthought_

Banned
May 15, 2018
1,992
Whenever I get the money to leave it will either make me appreciate America more or never want to come back
 

Deleted member 25712

User requested account closure
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Oct 29, 2017
1,803
Sounds like a 'grass is always greener' type mood. A lot of places are fantastic to visit but, if you actually lived there, their flaws (which every country has) would become evident.

This. I'm not saying the US is the end all be all, and I'd be open to living somewhere else again, but the monoty of daily life will catch up to you eventually
 

Bluebot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
646
Japan
Right there was literary just a huge demonstration in Paris by working class citizens about their quality of life.

Yeah, but I would rather live in a first-world country whose workers show solidarity and care about the quality of life. Demonstrations like that never happen in America. Moreover, you have half of the populace in America believing they should get angry when coworkers take vacation days.
It is hard seeing things changing for the better in every facet that America lags when so many people love how things are currently even if it is objectively worse.
 

meow

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,094
NYC
No. But I don't have debt, make decent money, don't have any serious health problems, and live in NYC. Coming back from other places is actually comforting in a way to me. Switzerland is awesome though, and I wouldn't mind trying to live there for a period. It's also seems expensive af though (even by NYC standards).
 

Commedieu

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
15,025
Maybe you should move out of Texas?

Also you're going to other countries, seeing tiny glimpse of them, and extrapolating that experience to what it'd be like if you lived there which is flawed to say the least. Every country has its problems and you're not going to notice them as a tourist or in a short visit

American problems are in the stone age while most of Europe\Other has basic issues sorted like:
Name any issues that contribute to quality of life.

Its not a grass is greener, its a literal, you will have a better life and life expectancy outside of the USA. We have the data, at this point.

I'd bail if given the opportunity, which I am actively working toward.
 

Pwnz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,280
Places
I get where the OP is coming from, especially with Trump. But I usually have the opposite feeling as I usually travel to the Caribbean and central America. I think only Aruba is in the general area of US's quality of life, but still lower. Coming back from Belize or Honduras or even Mexico I'm left with the sensation of overwhelming gratitude that I live in such a well off country. Trump's reign will end soon, and we'll get more social safety nets like Europe.

Edit: cayman islands are richer per capita but its basically the world's rich tax evasion island so I think the data is whack.
 
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Piggus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,762
Oregon
I feel sorry for Americans really. The richest nation in the world not even having public healthcare is fucking disgusting and frankly pathetic. I'd advocate a bloody revolution but history tells us you will only end up with something even worse on the other side of it.

I agree it's pathetic, but some of you make it sound like a majority of Americans don't have health care when in reality the vast majority of people do. The majority of Americans live relatively comfortably in spite of our problems, hence the lack of people marching on Washington to burn it all down. Republicans seem bent on leading us down that path, however.
 

DarthWalden

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,030
It's funny being a non-american and traveling to non-american cities.

Most American's stand out from the crowd. They are rude, loud and obnoxious.
 

Tapiozona

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
2,253
Definitely a grass is greener thing but that said I'm glad I was born in Finland even though I was raised in the US. It gives me options to move somewhere most don't have
 

Hollywood Duo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
43,283
Yeah, but I would rather live in a first-world country whose workers show solidarity and care about the quality of life. Demonstrations like that never happen in America. Moreover, you have half of the populace in America believing they should get angry when coworkers take vacation days.
It is hard seeing things changing for the better in every facet that America lags when so many people love how things are currently even if it is objectively worse.
I won't deny that things are better in France than the US right now. But I don't think things are on an upward trend in either country right now.
 

Arkestry

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,946
London
Realize that people working in those countries feel the same about yours the way you feel about theirs. Everyone going through a tough time wants to escape and see the grass as greener somewhere else.

Going on a short trip to somewhere is not representative of living a long term life there.


I'm sorry but this is bullshit. Living in a country where there is strong gun control and a national health service, even if it is run by arseholes, has me absolutely happy to stay in the UK compared to the US. There are definitely parts of my country I'd like to change, but if I was in America I would 100% feel like OP. I've visited the states dozens of times and I've never felt sad about returning home.
 

AcidCat

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,410
Bellingham WA
I'm kinda getting some dissonance about OP complaining about a litany of expenses but still somehow able to afford travel to France multiple times and Colombia.
 
OP
OP
Nothing Loud

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,061
Maybe you should move out of Texas?

Also you're going to other countries, seeing tiny glimpse of them, and extrapolating that experience to what it'd be like if you lived there which is flawed to say the least. Every country has its problems and you're not going to notice them as a tourist or in a short visit

My husbands from California. We are moving wherever for my grad school if I get accepted, but then hopefully we can leave afterward.

I'm not just basing my opinions based off one tourist visit. I've spent months in other countries and I have close family and friends I interact with and ask about their lives. Of course, the grass is greener mentality is dangerous, but I know the US doesn't make me happy.
 

jay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,281
There are definitely huge flaws with this country and I personally contemplate leaving not infrequently, but there is a deeper issue here. Work and working are terrible for the vast majority of humans around the globe. Creating a world where people feel valuable and not like disposable cogs or high paid suits in constant competition for ultimately empty materialistic gain is necessary to create long term feelings of contentedness for wide swaths of people. Running from our problems may allow us to briefly or even permanently enjoy our lives but it leaves everyone else behind.
 

Malakai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
566
....
But you (I) go back. You settle back into the monotony of American middle class life. The neurotic budgeting of every little expense to try to make ends meet. $600 for public university student loans. $500 for a car loan and insurance because your city doesn't have public transit. $1000-2000 for rent or mortgage. My husband is a public school teacher who pays $600 fucking dollars a month for an Aetna HMO with almost no doctors available and an $8,000 deductible. Where does all the money in the US middle class paycheck go? You just fall back into the monotony of accepting that life sucks. You're there to work 40-60 hours a week if you're lucky or juggle 2-3 jobs to afford a lack of benefits if you're not. You become numb to the concept that life should be enjoyed. You just age. At least that's my experience.


.....

That crazy. I only pay $135 a month w/ a $750 annual deductible w/ $25 co-pays and I work in the public sector. Heck, a single teacher in my area would be paying the same amount. This is in U.S. btw.
 

Ukraine

Banned
Jun 1, 2018
2,182
I love to travel, but I also like it being home. When you are traveling you don't know what issues people are dealing with so everything just seems more relaxed. In reality there are pros and cons living everywhere.
 
OP
OP
Nothing Loud

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,061
I'm kinda getting some dissonance about OP complaining about a litany of expenses but still somehow able to afford travel to France multiple times and Colombia.

I'm good at traveling on a budget. It was very hard to afford traveling to Colombia this year (the only trip I made) but I wanted to see my grandma who is crazy about me, I'm the only thing she remembers with her dementia at 91. So I stayed at my moms house and flew the cheapest fare I've found with Spirit.

I have flown to Paris and Barcelona each for $400 round trip and stayed in hostels in previous years where I wasn't married or so money-tight. People spend more on domestic US trips than I have in the past.

That crazy. I only pay $135 a month w/ a $750 annual deductible w/ $25 co-pays and I work in the public sector. Heck, a single teacher in my area would be paying the same amount. This is in U.S. btw.

Texas' system for teachers is ass. My husband taught in California and the difference with Texas is downright inhumane.
 
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gozu

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,442
America
Grass is always greener like they said. I could go to Spain and get all them benefits, but my salary would go way down.

The USA is pretty great, all we need is 60 democratic senators, a democrat president, and a democratic house for a decade and this country would be fucking amazing.

Regulate Comcast and its monopoly brethren into fucking oblivion so my cable has no more caps, is 20 times faster and cost half what it does now.

Medicare for all and all of a sudden i'm not getting fucked with rocksalt and paying $9k a year for my health (yeah, I paid $9k in job-subsidized health insurance + copays this year. With obamacare, it would've been over $15k) because I have chronic back pain and asthma.

Bumped minimum wage and all of a sudden hard working poor people can live with some dignity.

Comprehensive immigration reform, mandatory parental leave, subsidized daycare and free public universities and all of a sudden people can have more kids to chip into social security so it doesn't go bust.

The list goes on and on...
 

Hollywood Duo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
43,283
Chocolate chip cookies are why I come back to the USA.
200.gif
 
OP
OP
Nothing Loud

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,061
Grass is always greener like they said. I could go to Spain and get all them benefits, but my salary would go way down.

The USA is pretty great, all we need is 60 democratic senators, a democrat president, and a democratic house for a decade and this country would be fucking amazing.

Regulate Comcast and its monopoly brethren into fucking oblivion so my cable has no more caps, is 20 times faster and cost half what it does now.

Medicare for all and all of a sudden i'm not getting fucked with rocksalt and paying $9k a year for my health (yeah, I paid $9k in job-subsidized health insurance + copays this year. With obamacare, it would've been over $15k) because I have chronic back pain and asthma.

Bumped minimum wage and all of a sudden hard working poor people can live with some dignity.

Comprehensive immigration reform, mandatory parental leave, subsidized daycare and free public universities and all of a sudden people can have more kids to chip into social security so it doesn't go bust.

The list goes on and on...

Fixing these things is not the trend we have been headed toward.

I just don't like the culture here, and I never did.

I wouldn't make as much in another country, but the salary reduction I've calculated wouldn't matter because cost of living and social benefits are way better. I'm just stuck for the time being because of my grad school hopes and $600/month in student loans that follow me anywhere.

Sounds like a 'grass is always greener' type mood. A lot of places are fantastic to visit but, if you actually lived there, their flaws (which every country has) would become evident.

Obviously. But there are flaws different people are willing to trade.

I recommend watching the Michael Moore documentary: Where To Invade Next
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,466
Grass is definitely not always greener. You can visit a lot of countries and think they are worse then where you are from, or think they are significantly better. People just might value different things in their daily lives and find more of that in other countries. Dismissing it as "its just different so you like it" is wrong imo.
 

Jom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,490
Sounds like a 'grass is always greener' type mood. A lot of places are fantastic to visit but, if you actually lived there, their flaws (which every country has) would become evident.
Eh, maybe that's true for someone who's just visiting for a few days since they just wouldn't really know much yet. But as someone who's lived a significant time in another country, I can't disagree with OP either.

If it was simply grass is greener, then I would have felt that when I first moved here to the US, but I have never felt that the US was better than where I moved from in the 20 some years I've been here, not in the first week, the first month, or the first year here.
 

Deleted member 33887

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 20, 2017
2,109
I saw this while living abroad in Korea for 4 years. Most of my Korean friends would love to move to the US, meanwhile I was glad to be out. They told me Korea was hell, I just it was heaven compared to the US with gun control, affordable healthcare, and the entire country valuing education. They didn't see it that way and were planning to leave the second they could.

I'm back in the US now, working on getting to certified to teach here. Once I have that certification I'm probably going to look at schools in other countries again, maybe Canada or international schools in Asia (unless the US starts looking better by the end of 2020).


Would love to live in Sweden/Norway/Denmark, etc, but as someone who definitely doesn't qualify for any STEM jobs I don't think I have any qualifications they would want.

I imagine being forced through hyper competitive schooling with parents breathing down your neck if you mess up even a little bit and having to take a test that basically decides your entire life's trajectory would be a bit overbearing. Top 10 in suicide rates, and they're the best off economically in that top 10 and it isn't even close. The education system looks great on the surface, but I doubt you would want to go through it yourself from scratch.

I haven't traveled since we veered off into the darkest timeline, so I'm curious what my feelings would be. Last time I was out of the country, I couldn't wait to come back. But that was 2011 or so, and I can't imagine being enthusiastic about coming back to the US given the current political reality.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,612
Bandung Indonesia
Heh.

Speaking from the perspective of someone living in a developing country, I would kill for the opportunity to live in the US, actually. Even with all the Trumps and craziness in there, many of you folks just don't have any idea how lucky you are to be born in the US compared to the rest of us.
 

Zedelima

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,830
Eveytime i go to USA, i want to stay and never go back to my country.

For me USA are full of educated people (much more than my country) with a good educational system and where you actually pay a fair price for almost everything. I think you guys are so lucky to live in USA that i dont understand when someone says that want to go out.

USA and Norway are my dreams...so you see? Also, colombia ehhh...not the best place im afraid
 

Pwnz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,280
Places
Heh.

Speaking from the perspective of someone living in a developing country, I would kill for the opportunity to live in the US, actually. Even with all the Trumps and craziness in there, many of you folks just don't have any idea how lucky you are to be born in the US compared to the rest of us.

Yeah, I don't think a lot of my fellow Americans appreciate the reality of most countries. Even countries that are not extreme 3rd world ones like Belize have it so much worse. I toured Belize city and the guide casually mentioned that often waters would rise, flooding the collapsing shacks of homes and at times gators and snakes would invade. Or another time I was in Progresso Mexico which is by no means 3rd world in the slightest, but as we drove to a resort we passed putrid smelling fields which I assume had to do with fishing. People lived in makeshift shacks and had clothes on lines, every day living in a world that smells like rotten fish diarrhea.