Oct 26, 2017
5,183
I forget, did they retcon the red orcs (Fel Orcs / Chaos Orcs) to be green now? I liked the red orcs... IIRC green orcs were chaos corrupted, with a more brown/reddish colour as their uncorrupted look, but I don't remember how the bright red orcs fit in anymore.

Anyways, the Orc heroes look way improved with the HD art, but all of the Human heroes outside of Arthas look really weird. The more realistic proportions look off. And Arthas with his Paladin hammer looks weird too, the hammer proportions look soooo off.

I don't think we've seen the Chaos Orcs since Warcraft 3, since they turned red from drinking the combination of Mannoroth's blood & a fountain of healing, and after they were healed/killed, the Orcs never fell to such corruption since then. Since that was a big part of the WC3 Orc campaign, we'll probably see them closer to release.

We should definitely see Chaos Grom at some point, as well.
 
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elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
10,052
I don't think we've seen the Chaos Orcs since Warcraft 3, since they turned red from drinking the combination of Mannoroth's blood & a fountain of healing, and after they were healer/killed, the Orcs never fell to such corruption since then. Since that was a big part of the WC3 Orc campaign, we'll probably see them closer to release.

We should definitely see Chaos Grom at some point, as well.

Chaos Orcs are canon. There are were few dozen Chaos Orcs remaining (now all extinct) during The Burning Crusade's time, around Hellfire Citadel where Magtheridon was imprisoned.
 
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SuikerBrood

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,509
7RFXLVm.jpg

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Chen and Grom look badass.
 

zeox

Member
Oct 27, 2017
428
Norway
Any word on if they changed the unit selection limit? I think it was limited to 12 originally, and that always annoyed me.
The game, like Starcraft Remastered, will be fully compatible with the original Warcraft 3 (meaning you can play against/together with someone with the old client), so they won't be changing any gameplay stuff at all.

Unless they completely abandoned that feature
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,428
Not interested anymore, don't want to play a game from a company actively suppressing the very simple right to protest. The punishment is not appropriate for what has happened.
 

Maledict

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,141
I forget, did they retcon the red orcs (Fel Orcs / Chaos Orcs) to be green now? I liked the red orcs... IIRC green orcs were chaos corrupted, with a more brown/reddish colour as their uncorrupted look, but I don't remember how the bright red orcs fit in anymore.

Anyways, the Orc heroes look way improved with the HD art, but all of the Human heroes outside of Arthas look really weird. The more realistic proportions look off. And Arthas with his Paladin hammer looks weird too, the hammer proportions look soooo off.

Orcs have three colours:

Brown - uncorrupted, the natural colour

Green - fel corrupted, but not necessarily directly. Orcs became corrupted after drinking manneroths blood and from that point onwards it became the default colour - their children are green even if they have no fel corruption.

Red - have directly drunk a pit lord's blood, enhanced by some other source. We see this in the WC3 campaign when the orcs drink Manneroths blood in the healing fountain. We also see it in TBC - the creation of new Fel Orcs with red skin is the main storyline of the zone. A lot Lord is being captured and drained in the basement of Hellfire Citedal.
 

lazygecko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,628
Characters don't look very good. They seem to be built for head-on viewing, not top-down like most RTS games. Silhouettes aren't exaggerated and the textures are a jumbled, busy mess. In the heat of battle this is gonna cause major readability issues.

I'm excited for this game but this is not Blizzard's best work. Did they outsource this?

I used to not worry and think Blizzard had a good grip on this stuff. But I had serious readability issues with the units in SC2. Couldn't even tell SCVs apart from marines when clumped together, and that would never happen in SC1.
 

elenarie

Game Developer
Verified
Jun 10, 2018
10,052
Red - have directly drunk a pit lord's blood, enhanced by some other source. We see this in the WC3 campaign when the orcs drink Manneroths blood in the healing fountain. We also see it in TBC - the creation of new Fel Orcs with red skin is the main storyline of the zone. A lot Lord is being captured and drained in the basement of Hellfire Citedal.

Magtheridon, the pit lord that Illidan defeated and enslaved in the WC3 The Frozen Throne expansion.
 
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SuikerBrood

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,509
I used to not worry and think Blizzard had a good grip on this stuff. But I had serious readability issues with the units in SC2. Couldn't even tell SCVs apart from marines when clumped together, and that would never happen in SC1.

I hope to get into the beta, once they announce it, so I can test it. Readability of units is very important. Especially in a micro heavy game as WC3.
 
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SuikerBrood

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,509
The buildings still seem to lack a proper foundation. Which makes it look more cartoony and less grounded. Buildings seem to float a bit. Especially the human buildings.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,440
The buildings still seem to lack a proper foundation. Which makes it look more cartoony and less grounded. Buildings seem to float a bit. Especially the human buildings.
Now that you've mentioned it I can't unsee it.

They look like they were photoshopped in. Not literally but they lack a real sense of place.
 

boskee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
418
London
Just completed some custom games. I absolutely love it. Can't wait to get playable NE and Undead + campaigns.

Kf6IrBF.jpg
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,440
Didn't buildings in original WC3 have some kind of foundation created on the ground? So that it would look level even if the area was sloped?

No more photoshop buildings pls.

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The stone tiles on the leftmost buildings, for instance.
 
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SuikerBrood

SuikerBrood

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Jan 21, 2018
15,509
Just completed some custom games. I absolutely love it. Can't wait to get playable NE and Undead + campaigns.

Kf6IrBF.jpg

In this screenshot the buildings look a little more grounded. But the whole world seems quite dark. Hope they brighten it up a bit. Classic, as seen in the screenshot posted above, was a very bright game. Even in the darkest scenarios.
 

boskee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
418
London
In this screenshot the buildings look a little more grounded. But the whole world seems quite dark. Hope they brighten it up a bit. Classic, as seen in the screenshot posted above, was a very bright game. Even in the darkest scenarios.
That screenshot was taken at night. I don't know, I felt colours were really saturated and vibrant during the day.
 

gimmmick

Member
Nov 26, 2017
1,877
I remember being a beta tester for warcraft III back in day. Brought back a lot of memories just looking at the screenshots.
 
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SuikerBrood

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
15,509
A lot of things still look bland and unlike Warcraft 3 to me:

- All heroes blend in with the armies too much. It adds realism, but doesn't work great with the RPG-style strategy game
- Buildings look out of place, they went with more realism with the units, but the buildings remain very cartoony
- Units are too much alike. In Classic every unit is very recognizable.
- Firelord doesn't look impressive AT ALL
- Beastmaster doesn't look like a hero, more like a buffed grunt
- Performance seems off. Lots of FPS drops.
- Effects aren't as recognizable as in classic. Healing salves and healing scrolls aren't as visible as before. Without these visual cues it'll be harder to play.
 

Mett

Member
Oct 29, 2017
673
Didnt get to play the early Warcraft games and only got into the series when I started World of Warcraft in 2005. Never did go back to visit them but have become really heavily into the lore and this just looks great and I think it would be awesome to see the events that lead up to WoW.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,644
One thing that I haven't heard people talk about specifically: it's a relief to see no sign of the new concept they showed last BlizzCon for the command card/console interface, as though it has been scrapped. (Unless it's still there as an option, and everybody showing off the images from the beta build just swapped it back to the classic HUD, or were on it by default.) I know they always intended to leave in the classic layout as an option, but the new design they showed off last year, with the floating portraits and the messy two-row button card, was an instructive lesson in what not to do when trying to make a UI sleek and slim.

Memories of the lead up to WC3? Ah, this is my wheelhouse :) Many of you already know all this but for those who may not...

WarCraft III was announced at ECTS 1999 as a "Role-playing strategy" game with 6 races - they initially announced humans, orcs, and demons (the Burning Legion). The developers revealed that this was not a traditional RTS game. Bases were extremely limited. Your unit cap would be determined by your hero's "Command" stat, and indeed the camera was even locked to your heroes. You'd roam the map fighting tactical battles and recruiting allies/mercenaries rather than building up a traditional army. Gold was the only resource, etc.

This is the period where we got a bunch of low-angle screenshots of groups of units out adventuring.

In May 2000, Blizzard announced they were going back on a lot of the original vision to create something more in line with traditional WarCraft. Free-roaming camera, free building placement, etc. This was also when they announced that Undead were the fourth race and that the sixth race had been cut. This period saw the announcement of a ton of cool ideas and features that never made it into the final game. For example, Undead would have a single Necromancer instead of peon units, he could cast global spells instead of building buildings, and Undead would use corpses and the Necromancer's mana as their resources (what use do the dead have for gold and wood?). Vestiges of this design remain with the meatwagon corpse-gathering feature and the Graveyard's corpse production mechanic, even though you pretty much just use corpses for creating skeletons in the released game.

During this period they released more traditional overhead angle shots, generally without any UI but later with some UI prototypes that were a bit heavy on the hero stats.

In late November of 2000, Blizzard officially revealed that the 5th race would be the Night Elves (spoiled by a leak from a French gaming magazine). From here on out the game as we know it began to rapidly take shape. Extraneous heroes were cut and/or demoted to regular units (Orc Warlord, Human Crusader, Elven [Human] Ranger, Undead Crypt Fiend and Abomination, Night Elf Archdruid). On February 1, 2001, they announced that the Burning Legion wouldn't be playable and we were only getting 4 races. Mechanics became more traditional - Night Elves and Undead began harvesting wood/gold, flying heroes were forced to walk (Farseer, Priestess of the Moon), max hero level was reduced from 15 to 10. By summer of 2001 Blizzard was releasing screenshots that basically look like WarCraft III today.

What a time to be a WarCraft fan!

Thanks for this blast from the past. WC3 was the first Blizzard game I followed closely pre-release (the Orcs in Space alpha was already ancient history by the time I got into SC1) and I definitely remember a lot of the major developments like the scaling back from six to four races.

Didnt get to play the early Warcraft games and only got into the series when I started World of Warcraft in 2005. Never did go back to visit them but have become really heavily into the lore and this just looks great and I think it would be awesome to see the events that lead up to WoW.

You're pretty much the audience they're targeting with Reforged. WoW from vanilla up to WotLK was largely one big direct sequel to WC3, and it's in this game that you see a ton of the major characters and factions introduced, back when everything going on in Azeroth was relatively tidy and easy to keep straight. Anyone who has played WoW for any amount of time knows the feeling of having to look up out-of-game material in wikis to cover all the patches or one-off comics they missed just to understand how the characters got where they were. WC3 does not have that problem: it involves a few returning characters from the earlier Warcraft games, but by and large the campaign is very good about setting up its own pieces.

I know there are rewrites incoming to play up the roles of characters who became prominent in WoW and to streamline the continuity, but I hope the changes aren't too heavy-handed. I'm not fond of Christie Golden's work in particular (the Arthas tie-in book that was a big hit back in the WotLK days was basically a cribbing of the WC3 campaign script with melodramatic embellishments that made it worse and robbed everything of subtext), and now that she is directly on staff in a Warcraft writing team that exhibits a lot of the same tendencies I disliked about her tie-in contributions, I get the impression that people coming in fresh from WoW are likelier to enjoy this more than WC3 old-timers who notice the revisions they're making.