It sucks that another cool game has some problematic issues, more interested in the fact that Devolver responded to it though:
Update?:
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[Waypoint] How 'The Red Strings Club' Sabotages Its Hopeful Cyberpunk Vision
- Thread starter Neptonic
- Start date
It sucks that another cool game has some problematic issues, more interested in the fact that Devolver responded to it though:
Update?:
I'm not really sure whether you could without spoiling a puzzle solution or story beat. The fact that I've said it's a puzzle solution might be enough of a spoiler in itself.
Alright, thanks anyway. I'll keep going and come back to this thread when I reach that point.
OP
OP
Late game problem uses a character's dead name as a solution and as a big story twist basically
I think Waypoint is rather hypocritical here given the virulently transphobic fan fiction they posted about Nier: Automata. Devolver Digital is also not looking stellar with their reaction. You should never get that defensive when called out on your transphobia. That said, I agree with Waypoint's point, unless the character themselves were to use the deadname as a password or something that a hacker would need access to, but if that's the case then the execution is messy and they could've easily switched the password to something else.
I just saw this game on Steam literally today. Hadn't heard about it before. I just know that because it's Devolver as the publisher, it's going to try and push some sort of boundary.
Welp, I just learned what "deadname" means.
Whatta world we live in.
Welp, I just learned what "deadname" means.
Whatta world we live in.
The Devolver tweet is dumb as hell
If there was overt racism in a game we would all call that out regardless of it being fictional or not
So? Whether the person is real or not is irrelevant, the action is still the same and it's important to call out
If there was overt racism in a game we would all call that out regardless of it being fictional or not
Is this supposed to be a huffy post about trans people having the gall to exist and be called by the name they want to use?
Demanding an editor and critic to consult the artist before criticizing their art is a really, really bad look. You do not need to know their intentions to criticize their work. This could be a valuable approach to another article focusing on the interview, but not here.
https://twitter.com/devolverdigital/status/955597745498312704?s=17
"Absolutely not at odds with the criticism or condoning deadnaming - the writer is actually speaking with the trans member of the dev team at the moment with great questions so the timing of the tweet seemed odd."
"Absolutely not at odds with the criticism or condoning deadnaming - the writer is actually speaking with the trans member of the dev team at the moment with great questions so the timing of the tweet seemed odd."
I think it could be bad even with a fictional character, but given the context I don't really see the problem. But I'm not trans so I can't really tell.
Not saying Waypoint is right but the devs should've consulted with a trans person to check how to handle something like this and Devolver shouldn't go all defensive with stuff like that.
Edit: OK, apparently there's a trans person in the dev team.
I think one should assess whether or not they are looking at the work of an ally to the cause, and use that as a starting point to inform, call into question, etc.
If she feels the work is not that of ally, either through using the work or the creator as a reference point, then proceed with the tweet. It is a hot take, grabs attention, and seems to properly invalidate the work.
If she feels the work is not that of ally, either through using the work or the creator as a reference point, then proceed with the tweet. It is a hot take, grabs attention, and seems to properly invalidate the work.
Their product is getting slammed, and they are responding in turn....seems fair to me?
OP
OP
It's usually not cool to post a seemingly passive aggressive tweet about how you don't like the criticism of your thing
It's not that they don't necessarily like the criticism it's that they weren't approached for comment. A good journalist would at least reach out for comment before posting something like this.
I do think the criticism is fair.
I saw this tweet too. That would be quite the plot twist indeed; this could potentially be not a case of failing to "have a representative in the room," but instead, the very product of having a "representative in the room."
The plot thickens.
I am a bit confused, the article doesn't really go into the context of the reveal or what the reveal is exactly in terms of the story.
I mean i can understand in the context of calling someone their old name if they want to go by a new name/gender and how that can be hurtful, but what I read (the article doesn't tell you exactly what it is so I am just guessing) it has to do with revealing who the character used to be in the past as a "twist/story" element to the narrative but without the context it seems hard to know if they used it simply as a twist or as the above in which I can see it being hurtful.
In many movies/books there's been the "twist" of "x" character that you think is this person is revealed to really be "y" person, would that then be transphobic by simply having the reveal if it's meant to be a story twist?
An example, the classic Sleepaway camp. Where's its revealed (major spoilers)
I mean i can understand in the context of calling someone their old name if they want to go by a new name/gender and how that can be hurtful, but what I read (the article doesn't tell you exactly what it is so I am just guessing) it has to do with revealing who the character used to be in the past as a "twist/story" element to the narrative but without the context it seems hard to know if they used it simply as a twist or as the above in which I can see it being hurtful.
In many movies/books there's been the "twist" of "x" character that you think is this person is revealed to really be "y" person, would that then be transphobic by simply having the reveal if it's meant to be a story twist?
An example, the classic Sleepaway camp. Where's its revealed (major spoilers)
That the person that everyone though was Angela was actually Peter (her twin brother) who was raised as Angela by his Aunt after the accident that killed his sister but not him like people thought.
This is exactly it. Twitter is so fucking stupid.
a one liner public tweet (from their brand account no less) is basically the equivalent of shouting "They're transphobic! Get em!" While in the middle of a crowd.
I've come to expect better of Patrick and especially Austin over the years.
Did you miss the Mass Effect Andromeda blunder?
Because that was even worse because the Trans character herself did it and it was during a gratuitous line EA had added to path themselves in the back, boy was the Trans community was not happy.
I've already said this is the first time I've heard of this term.
They, like me, probably missed the Mass Effect Andromeda game as a blunder altogether, lol.
Fair point, hahaha.
Basically it means calling someone who is trans and chose a new name by their old name.
You mean a world where people proudly flaunt their ignorance of social issues? Yeah, I agree, it sucks. :(
I mean like literally see it. I feel like this is too out of context.
I saw a clip of that. It was really bad. What writer thought of that as a good idea for a character to do?
I did miss the Mass Effect blunder. So they had a trans character refer to herself as her old name?
Also, was that where the term was first coined?
No, but i figured it would have been a lot of gamers' first exposition to the word since it caused similar PR fallout to EA.
A non Trans one who has no clue.
It's a relatively old term
I mean obviously. I just want to know exactly what they were thinking though.
As someone who's playing the game currently (not too far in) I've no idea what the issue even is.
What is 'deadnaming'? What's there to critique if it's fiction? Can a team not create tough situations in a world they are building?
Excuse my ignorance.
What is 'deadnaming'? What's there to critique if it's fiction? Can a team not create tough situations in a world they are building?
Excuse my ignorance.
Deadname has been a term for a long time, you just don't interact with trans people on a regular basis and we'd (understandably) rather now have our deadname brought up.
A trans person's deadname is the name they were given at birth, which they no longer have as they have adopted a new name.
Obviously it varies from person to person, but the trans person I know IRL finds being deadnamed, even on accident, to be extremely upsetting and stressful.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhh I get you now. Thanks for the explanation, it shed some light on the situation.
It's a critical interpretation of their work. You do not need to approach anyone for comment about that, that's silly
I just noticed that they released an apology, so I suppose I should be lighter on them, but here:
https://waypoint.vice.com/en_us/article/3k5kvw/fanfic-the-trials-of-the-false-yorha-oracle
At least the ME:A team included that character with good intentions, as it's clear with their apology and patch fixing the their clumsy execution.
So a password is using a deadname and that's why it's so problematic? I'm confused why this is so "offensive".
Whoa. Thanks for the link.
I'm stunned by all of this. The content of the fanfic, the depth of the thoughtful apology, and to a lesser extent the decision to celebrate games of the year via this format in the first place.
Good on Austin for apologizing, but wow.
I really hate when critics act like Sith and deal in absolutes.
The movie "The Crying Game" was one of the first widely seen movies that deals with Transexualism in a serious/grounded way. The reveal that the romantic lead has a penis is presented as a shocker, the protagonist freaks out over it.
Sounds like this writer would accuse The Crying Game of bad writing if not being downright transphobic.
I have not played this game or have any intention to (adventure games don't interest me), but this article sounds like a vast overreaction.
... I really think I would need to play the game before I can agree or disagree with Waypoint here. The writing in the article itself is a bit sensationalist, but it's part of vice so I can't be too shocked there. The context, intention, and usage are all important aspects to look at here. The players involved, the time frame in which the situation takes place, everything. Existing in a vacuum, this is obviously a terrible thing to do.
That's a rather worrying (and wrong) definition of journalism. A journalist doesn't let the artists influence his criticisms before posting his critique. An interview and report about the backgrounds of how and why a game came to be the way it did would be the place for that.
Gonna need an explanation as to how using a trans character's genitals as a "shocking" twist that leads to the protagonist vomiting in revulsion is a grounded representation that isnt transphobic, chief.