If AAA can only exist because of these kinds of working conditions, it deserves to die.
Truth.
If AAA can only exist because of these kinds of working conditions, it deserves to die.
I think that crunch is unfortunately unavoidable in any creative business, it's not like a "regular" job where you just do your thing for the right amount of time and everything works. You can't force creativity, you can't force epiphanies. Solving creative issues and coming up with good design solutions can take a lot of time, and sometimes can come late and require a bunch of things to be reworked.
That said, there's a difference between a couple of weeks of paid overtime and months and months of expected crunch that drives talent away from your studio. If you're crunching for months, that means you never had a chance in hell of reaching your deadline, so it's dishonest and harmful to your employees to go with it when you know it's not possible.
Stop announcing games so early, stop announcing dates when you have no idea of the game's full scope.
There's this quote by Neil Druckmann, about Uncharted 4: "How do you avoid crunch? Don't try to make Game of the Year.", but is it really true? If the game came out in November instead, would it no longer be Game of the Year material? What part of that game's quality absolutely needs a May release?
Not every studio/publisher can afford multiple delays, but Sony most definitely can afford a few Naughty Dog delays, their games sell like crazy.
Hope you like 90 dollar games
Honestly I don't think the AAA dev scene would continue to exist at all
Regarding CDPR, French outlet Le Monde interviewed Marcin Iwinski (co-funder) and Adam Badowski (head of the studo) during E3 and the question of unions was brought up.
It's obviously a big yikes:
The short and wexplanation is that it's when everyone starts working crazy hours to meet deadlines. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_developer#"Crunch_time"Can someone explain to me what "Crunch" is? My google-fu isn't great either.
Can someone explain to me what "Crunch" is? My google-fu isn't great either.
Disappointing response for sure. Waypoint spent most of their E3 podcasts singing praises about the Cyberpunk 2077 demo (and to be fair, so did most everyone else who saw it). More specifically they were impressed with the sheer depth of detail, the kind of shit that takes thousands of hours of put together. I'm curious to know if/how they reconcile the fact that the kind of handcrafted work they like in Cyberpunk is really only possible with insane work hours and sub-par pay.
It seems stupid to ask Reggie when he only knows (or will pretend) the things of NoA, which have little to do with the crunch in the development of a videogame.
Damn that's awful.Regarding CDPR, French outlet Le Monde interviewed Marcin Iwinski (co-funder) and Adam Badowski (head of the studo) during E3 and the question of unions was brought up.
It's obviously a big yikes:
In my opinion, three of the biggest issues the games industry is facing in no specific order are crunch, representation, and preservation. CD Projekt's famously anti-DRM position and their platform GOG have made them a really positive force (and one of the only prominent industry forces) for the very latter. It's clear regarding their weak answer about the very former they have work to do.They do. Which baffles me with how they're viewed as some saint company saving the world.Don't CDPR also pay their developers fairly low compared to others because of where they're based?
You sure about that?One of the biggest devs in the entire industry, Bungie, never crunches
The secret here is some game devs would rather be at work than any other place - let's enforce union rules so they can't do what they want with their lives
Progress
Really though, most material attributes of our civilization today are there because the majority of humans are working harder than what is comfortable to them.
They don't. NOA is not a developer... they are there for localization, marketing, bug-testing/QA.Jesus, not like this CDPR, not like this.
Also in regards to Nintendo of America, what games do they actually develop? Aside from Retro? And NST which mostly does handheld titles and assists on Japanese titles.
Good. Fuck your very favorite AAA game, specifically, if it took perpetual crunch and unpaid-because-of-the-salary-system overtime to make it.Hope you like 90 dollar games
Honestly I don't think the AAA dev scene would continue to exist at all
Let's see, with his position, I see it impossible that he does not know about those things, but they are not his responsibility.Yeah. I mean, it's possible he knows more, but since he's not managing NCL or any of the game development studios it'd be a bit unwise and out of line to comment on something he's not responsible for.
You don't always get what you want when you get an interview. And if you don't get someone in the know about a certain topic, you don't ask about it. Instead, you ask about stuff he knows about. It's a simple matter of respect for the professional you have sitting in front of you.
Don't CDPR also pay their developers fairly low compared to others because of where they're based?
I don't even know how to respond to your question because the phrase "working harder than what is comfortable to them" is so vague that it is rendered meaningless.Really though, most material attributes of our civilization today are there because the majority of humans are working harder than what is comfortable to them.
I never said that that is what should be, but that's how it currently is, isn't it? Or is my estimation off?
They would just ship the games to another country for testing if that's the case, which is the sad truth to this situation. :(
Well then i guess i should put my imaginary pipe down for now.I don't even know how to respond to your question because the phrase "working harder than what is comfortable to them" is so vague that it is rendered meaningless.
Pretty sure DICE has a union and EA has kept investing in it, and it's defo an AAA game dev - though EA is known in the game industry for good benefits and work conditions, and they seem to be trying across the board to reduce crunch, other companies may not be so willing.They would just ship the games to another country for testing if that's the case, which is the sad truth to this situation. :(
The short and wexplanation is that it's when everyone starts working crazy hours to meet deadlines. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_developer#"Crunch_time"
Catch-all term for working overtime every day for multiple weeks in order to ship a product.
Put a different way
Game devs have incredible skills that are in demand all over the gaming market and in the more lucrative business/science apps field
They make incredibly good money compared to almost any job - These are not miners or automobile manufacturers; blue collar workers who are working for smaller wages
They can leave the studio/field at any time and for the most part (not always because in life axioms are never universal) they can quickly find a job because THE ARE IN HIGH DEMAND
This does not describe an industry ripe for unionization - This is an industry that works well with free market principles
If a dev does not want to work at a company that crunches...he has many many choices within and outside the gaming industry
EDIT:
One of the biggest devs in the entire industry, Bungie, never crunches
Pretty sure DICE has a union and EA has kept investing in it, and it's defo an AAA game dev - though EA is known in the game industry for good benefits and work conditions, and they seem to be trying across the board to reduce crunch, other companies may not be so willing.
If AAA can only exist because of these kinds of working conditions, it deserves to die.
Crunch is not necessary to get games with high amount of production values. It's a question of management and budgetting.
A game released 14 years ago. That's like when people take MP1 as an example for Retro.You sure about that?
You should read about the development of Halo 2.
Could be remembering incorrectly but pretty sure DICE is part of a swedish Game dev union - as in the whole company, not just QA.
If AAA can only exist because of these kinds of working conditions, it deserves to die.
Didn't he leave? I heard he was why Lords of Shadows 2 turned out the way he did but I thought he left after that.Mercury Steam is just a hellsite in general. They don't have much crunch, but the head of the studio is a megalomaniac who hates all of his employees.
So the western Nintendo studios have... very different approaches to crunch.
On one hand I'm heartened that gamers the last few years have started to become more vocal about shitty working conditions in game development, and supporting efforts to unionize.
On the other hand I have close to zero faith that those same gamers would be so pro-union once the rubber hit the road and the additional costs, delays, and cut game features that are unfortunately passed on to them as a result of a more expensive workforce.
I mean, even on a "more enlightened" forum such as Era, I see "lazy devs" comments every day, what happens when we're in a post-union world?
Look, I am explicitly pro-labor and find a lot of the responses in this thread disappointing, but this is extremely naïve. The costs would absolutely be passed through to consumers.The costs won't be passed onto consumers as much as it will be paid by all those CEOs and executives and stockholders who are reaping all the profits from the labor of developers and the money from consumers.
The costs won't be passed onto consumers as much as it will be paid by all those CEOs and executives and stockholders who are reaping all the profits from the labor of developers and the money from consumers.
Look, I am explicitly pro-labor and find a lot of responses in this thread disappointing, but this is extremely naïve. The costs would absolutely be passed through to consumers.
Crunch is not a AAA issue. It's a budget and time issue. If anything, Indie Devs may have it worse as both things (money and time) are even more limited.
Look, I am explicitly pro-labor and find a lot of the responses in this thread disappointing, but this is extremely naïve. The costs would absolutely be passed through to consumers.
That would be nice if it were the case, but under late capitalism it's extremely unlikely that the executives of companies would sacrifice stockholder value so that Joe Environment Artist can spend more time with his 5-year-old.