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Mahonay

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,363
Pencils Vania
Thread locked and rebooted just to have a mod breathing down your neck while posting now?

What was Reset? Honestly.
Threads are often locked very briefly just to let people calm down and then reopened here. Rarely are active topics completely locked. People are given a second chance to continue the discussion. That was definitely NOT the case at the old site.

But sure, those mods are so mean!
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,836
And why are you assuming that? Do you think these people haven't experienced people on this forum behaving in that manner? Do you think there's any reason why somebody who has to deal with disingenuous nonsense all the time would have a low tolerance for it even if it's accidental? Why do you think they're not open? It's an assumption, you're not above the people you're criticising here.
I would have been more than ready to continue that discussion if that thread didn't get locked down.
That they've already decided that only racists and sexists would complaint is not an assumption though as it's right there in the post.
 
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deli

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,367
How I feel. Dudes thinking I have to educate dudes posting racist shit. Nah

I feel ya. A lot of disadvantaged groups & minorities think this way, and thought this way on the other forum too. And a lot of our voices are being generalised as nonsensical angry shrieking, if not being outright ignored, so of course people in that position are going to be louder and more forceful with their opinions. It's not rocket science. People need to empathize.
 

leder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,121
Great post, Speevy. I've noticed that the level of discourse and ability to discuss sensitive topics here has been trending lower than the old country in the OT, and higher on the gaming side. Kind of interesting. I'm not saying that I'm better than anyone else in this regard, so I'll try and improve, and I hope other posters take this seriously as well. I want this board to be great!
 

Baked Pigeon

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,087
Phoenix
One thing Ive noticed is if you bring an objective viewpoint to the table for the sake of making people think outside of the box or their comfort zone, they automatically think you agree with the opposite of them.

Example.....

4 Republicans with convictions are running for office . Someone who actually is a democrat says "all politicians do illegal things for the most part". All of a sudden you are labeled a republican trumper just because you stated something objectively.
 

Storm Chamber

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
314
Emotions. Sometimes people get heated and giving them a twenty minute timeout will help them calm down and not say things they might regret later.

People getting in shouting matches, going after each other, melting down, etc. I'm guilty of it myself sometimes. It helps to take a breather.

Last thread didn't even get a chance to get crazy though. It was just locked to get more curated responses now that big brother (sister?) is watching.

And let's not pretend that didn't happen on Gaf.
 

Dicer

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,192
There seems to be a 'right' side of every discussion and if you aren't 100% saying the 'right' things then nobody wants to hear it. Like walking on eggshells. But I guess that's life in general and not specific to this forum. Everyone wants to be reminded that their view is correct. So it's not something you can really do anything about.
Pretty much...

I was going to make a similar thread the other day but I'm glad speevy beat me to it.

In any discussion there is going to be differing viewpoints, but it seems if you are not in the majority then you are a target. This also goes for the poor folks that stand in the middle and get shit from both ends, at the end of the day yeah ban people for drive by shit posts, but let the one with a differing viewpoints have a chance to explain why they do.

I love you guys and gals, even the assholes... Let's hug it out and try to do better by each other.
 

Deleted member 8593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
27,176
one thing that pisses me off is if I'm just out of loop or just particularly ignorant about a certain subject and ask questions on it, people just dismiss it as bait and trolling when really I'm asking to know. Being disregarded doesn't help at all and it's really annoying

Lots of topics have a history of people "just asking questions" concerning minorities or oppressed groups with the intent to dismiss their grievances so it's not surprising that similar questions would get similarly aggressive responses even if the intent was not the same. You can either take that as an opportunity to reflect in how you engage with that topic and the people affected by it or you can just decide to see it as an attack on your person. As I said before, there are ways to ask about sensitive topics in a respectful manner. Even if the thread is about a third party, many people on this message board deal with sexism, racism and other forms of discrimination on a daily basis and will have strong reactions to posts that come off as dismissive.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,835
Calm down what exactly? Discussion?
Gives a chance to go through the thread and address reported posts and gives a bit for people to collect themselves after reading why the thread was locked and seeing warnings/bans that were handed out so users can see what not to do and what road to not go down.

If I had to guess anyways.
 

PhaZe 5

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,555
I caught a warning from what I thought was very civil and educational discussion and felt I was being very open and empathetic with my points. I don't mind the warning, but if a civil discussion isn't possible then perhaps certain threads should be closed quicker.
 

dragonchild

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,270
4 Republicans with convictions are running for office . Someone who actually is a democrat says "all politicians do illegal things for the most part". All of a sudden you are labeled a republican trumper just because you stated something objectively.
That's not objective at all. This has a downright impressive number of fallacies but just for starters, appeal to authority, false equivalence, begging the question and appeal to emotion. If you're actually wondering why it'd get a reaction, that it's a slap in the face of reason would be my guess.
 

ZattMurdock

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,333
Earth 616
I think that moderation here has been nothing but stellar. I think that the way warnings and bans are given is in order to educate and give example, so I see them as didactic literally 99% of times. Whenever a mistaken is made, mods and admins are very open to recognize it and owning it up via PMs.

As for improving the level of discourse on sensitive topics: we aren't a hive mind. I don't think Era's moderation encourages that kind of thinking, but enlightenment and learning for all the participants, even if through warnings, temp bans and for those extreme cases, permanent bans. I think discussions that kickstarted our board are deeply linked to the #MeToo movement and it's a discussion that was a long time coming.

It's up to us to not let these discussions die down OR to take a dark path, and I think Era is easily one of the best places to talk not only about video games, but entertainment and social sensitive issues like the ones we've been discussing lately.

As for the golden rule for ResetERA or any social iteration offline or otherwise, I leave you with a message of Steve Rogers:



l3MjL.gif
 

Deleted member 835

User requested account deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,660
I feel ya. A lot of disadvantaged groups & minorities think this way, and thought this way on the other forum too. And a lot of our voices are being generalised as nonsensical angry shrieking, if not being outright ignored, so of course people in that position are going to be louder and more forceful with their opinions. It's not rocket science. People need to empathize.
I don't think a lot of people realise how much minorities ( LGBT+, POC etc) and women have been argueing for. It's why when we see the same shit time after time it gets to a point you just say fuck it and blast people
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,437
New York
I feel like criticizing the discourse is what happens only when someone can't argue their point of view sufficiently and get salty other posters call them on it and hold them accountable for their posts in a discussion.

Hence why I think bitching about "dog piling" is bullshit. It's a discussion forum, folks. Guess what happens: We discuss, debate, and engage. If a bunch of people are quoting you and going in, it's cause they disagree. We gonna start having a limit on posters that are allowed to articulate their disagreements? That's ridiculous. I get dogpiled sometimes (particularly on guns) and guess what? Tough shit for me. Defend your position.
 

Brinbe

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
60,063
Terana
I feel like criticizing the discourse is what happens only when someone can't argue their point of view sufficiently and get salty other posters call them on it and hold them accountable for their posts in a discussion.

Hence why I think bitching about "dog piling" is bullshit. It's a discussion forum, folks. Guess what happens: We discuss, debate, and engage. If a bunch of people are quoting you and going in, it's cause they disagree. We gonna start having a limit on posters that are allowed to articulate their disagreements? That's ridiculous. I get dogpiled sometimes (particularly on guns) and guess what? Tough shit for me. Defend your position.
EXACTLY. The complaints about dogpiliing are absolute bullshit and they always have been. People are tired of seeing these terrible fucking opinions being spouted and are gonna react regardless if twenty other people feel the same.

Especially on the fucking internet where you have a shitton of that crap being spouted. As a minority, I don't wanna see that racist shit on here.
 

D i Z

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,085
Where X marks the spot.
It never stops amazing me how people complain about having to discuss what they say on a discussion board. If you put it out there, you're not talking to whatever god you follow. You're going to get a response. The dog piling angle being put forth is garbage.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,248
Most folks don't understand the importance of tone and the words they type. Last word, condescending, etc aren't new and you can't train people to understand the impact their message has if written as so. Just gotta ban 'em and let 'em sign up again. That's life.
 

Alice

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,867
These dogpiling complaints are the silliest thing I ever read.

If you enter a topic and post something controversial in a wildly inappropriate manner (this includes "just asking lel") and a good portion of posters call you out on your off colour crap, maybe you should sit back and THINK before responding. WHY would your response create so many replies and people calling you out?

Not the dogpiling and multiquotes get you banned/warned, but the shit you said that went against the TOS. NO ONE can force YOU into saying shit that's against the TOS but yourself.

Take some responsibility for the things you say instead of falling on your back to play victim of an authoritan (do you even know what a Forum is?) regime.
 

deli

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,367
I don't think a lot of people realise how much minorities ( LGBT+, POC etc) and women have been argueing for. It's why when we see the same shit time after time it gets to a point you just say fuck it and blast people

I think you just have to realise that a lot of the folks complaining aren't even going to try and see things from your point of view no matter how much you try and hammer that point home. It sucks, but it's a gaming forum after all. What are you going to do? People will lap up any old shit if it's being presented under the veneer of civility.
 

Deleted member 6230

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,118
Engage in good faith with the topic at hand and most of the time others will respectfully engage you even when they disagree. Leave the flippant remarks for a different thread. My 2cents
 

DreamMakers

Banned
Jan 11, 2018
237
One thing Ive noticed is if you bring an objective viewpoint to the table for the sake of making people think outside of the box or their comfort zone, they automatically think you agree with the opposite of them.

Example.....

4 Republicans with convictions are running for office . Someone who actually is a democrat says "all politicians do illegal things for the most part". All of a sudden you are labeled a republican trumper just because you stated something objectively.


You can play devils advocate but you need to drop a paragraph just to explain you are playing devils advocate or else it will just back fire
 

Squarehard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,258
One thing Ive noticed is if you bring an objective viewpoint to the table for the sake of making people think outside of the box or their comfort zone, they automatically think you agree with the opposite of them.

Example.....

4 Republicans with convictions are running for office . Someone who actually is a democrat says "all politicians do illegal things for the most part". All of a sudden you are labeled a republican trumper just because you stated something objectively.
Are you referencing yourself? I couldn't find that quote in the thread, and the only post that was similar, was your post towards the beginning of the conversation.

If you were referring to yourself (not sure why you wouldn't just say it was you), then I do feel your original comment wasn't all that nuanced, and left a lot of space to be misinterpreted, as it clearly did in subsequent posts and conversations.

I could see why people took it the wrong way, and then ran with it to that extent.

This isn't a discussion about the topic by the way, but just based on how your statement was written and presented. Misunderstandings happen, so just clarify it when they do. A couple of your response appeared more defensive from a personal perspective, and kind of aggressive, rather than making it clear your intentions.

That is not to say some of the reactions in that thread was correct, but it's just hard to get people to assume they know what you're implying, when you can just tell them your intentions.
 
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legacyzero

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,252
Devil's Advocates are fundamentally worthless and tiresome. Don't do it.
*When I dont agree.

That's how I assume that. Now, that's really for any topic. Devils advocate can serve as a balance to discussion when disagreements. Now let's of course weed out those that lean on "devils advocate, but....." to defend shitty egregious things. When people use it a lot like "i'm not racist but", that shit is nefarious as hell. But you cant just rule out devils advocate as a blanket because shitty people can use it too.

There is no "faith" though. There are people who believe they are right and they will not back down by any circumstance.
Then it's not worth continuing the discussion. If your main mission "Stop believing that and believe what I believe!!" and not the quest for common understanding. Well the problem isn't them. It's you.
 

plagiarize

It's not a loop. It's a spiral.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,892
Cape Cod, MA
People get upset about the warning because it's completely unacceptable in 2018. What would you do if you boss made you wear a red miss America sash if you made a mistake or said something dumb. How about if teachers did that a school. Its fucking laughable people would be outraged. Here it's done and you have no say no rebuttal it's shut up and wear the dunce cap or get banned. How does that promote anything positive.

Maybe you weren't around on the forum most of us came from. There, if you messed up you would be given a custom tag that you couldn't change, that would be like an actual dunce cap you couldn't take off. Furthermore, people would take bans for things we warn for, and other posters wouldn't know why. Here you get chances, and here while we do ask people to take issues about moderation to moderators or admins in pms, you'll notice that despite publically questioning how we do things here, you haven't been warned, let alone banned.

Warnings may look a bit scarier than they need to, but the fact is that they only really come into play if someone keeps posting in a manner that sabotages, or derails, or gets overly personal. Certain views aren't allowed here like racism and bigotry, and there are plenty of places on the internet that allow such views.

We're genuinely trying to let conversation happen, but when certain discussion continually get derailed the same way (for a non-politics example, people always complaining about piracy in threads about emulation or port begging in threads about exclusives) it's not doing anyone any good to let those things happen time and time again, I don't think.

Plus, before I was a mod, I myself got warned, and still was offered a position on the moderating team. It's not the black mark on your record that many think. We don't judge people for getting warnings. We judge people for *ignoring* them.
 

The Artisan

"Angels are singing in monasteries..."
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
8,327
Lots of topics have a history of people "just asking questions" concerning minorities or oppressed groups with the intent to dismiss their grievances so it's not surprising that similar questions would get similarly aggressive responses even if the intent was not the same. You can either take that as an opportunity to reflect in how you engage with that topic and the people affected by it or you can just decide to see it as an attack on your person. As I said before, there are ways to ask about sensitive topics in a respectful manner. Even if the thread is about a third party, many people on this message board deal with sexism, racism and other forms of discrimination on a daily basis and will have strong reactions to posts that come off as dismissive.
That's fair, but it's a lose lose situation. I think there might be some misunderstanding though when I said dismissive I didn't mean that I would come into a post to write something for clarification because I'm missing most of the details and my post would be dismissed as trolling/baiting or what have you.
 

Garmonbozia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
592
I think the mods do a pretty fine job.

Never been really called out by anyone though, in this or in the other forum. I've never been impulsive in my posting, so I've never posted something too inflammatory, I guess.
 

legacyzero

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,252
It never stops amazing me how people complain about having to discuss what they say on a discussion board. If you put it out there, you're not talking to whatever god you follow. You're going to get a response. The dog piling angle being put forth is garbage.
Yep. I believe this 100%. When you post with the automatic expectation that you will be discussed, then you'll have a better time here lol
 

Deepwater

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,349
*When I dont agree.

That's how I assume that. Now, that's really for any topic. Devils advocate can serve as a balance to discussion when disagreements. Now let's of course weed out those that lean on "devils advocate, but....." to defend shitty egregious things. When people use it a lot like "i'm not racist but", that shit is nefarious as hell. But you cant just rule out devils advocate as a blanket because shitty people can use it too.

The devil does not need an advocate. There are ways of introducing nuance to a conversation without arbitrarily defending the opposite end of an argument just for the sake of it. And if you have no interest in defending that view, you can't get upset when people call you out for it.

Edit: like, you aren't adding anything to the conversation in a thread about specifically convicted GOP election candidates in 2018 by saying "well all politicians are criminals". It's lazy.
 

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,454
These dogpiling complaints are the silliest thing I ever read.

If you enter a topic and post something controversial in a wildly inappropriate manner (this includes "just asking lel") and a good portion of posters call you out on your off colour crap, maybe you should sit back and THINK before responding. WHY would your response create so many replies and people calling you out?

Not the dogpiling and multiquotes get you banned/warned, but the shit you said that went against the TOS. NO ONE can force YOU into saying shit that's against the TOS but yourself.

*shrug* That's what I mean right here. You get dogpiled because you couldn't bring your argument correctly over in the first post and correct it in the next posts and suddenly you are the lowest human here on the forum.

So: I am a misogynist, sexist person who posts shit and crap, with my view that Women determine what harassment against themselves is. I got dogpiled because it wasn't clear in my first post. In the End I was warned because I defended Women views. Say again what a horrible person I am.
 

LionPride

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,804
It never stops amazing me how people complain about having to discuss what they say on a discussion board. If you put it out there, you're not talking to whatever god you follow. You're going to get a response. The dog piling angle being put forth is garbage.
Man fr

Like if you say some off the wall shit and get called out, you ain't gotta defend it, but don't complain
 

Alice

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
5,867
*shrug* That's what I mean right here. You get dogpiled because you couldn't bring your argument correctly over in the first post and correct it in the next posts and suddenly you are the lowest human here on the forum.

So: I am a misogynist, sexist person who posts shit and crap, with my view that Women determine what harassment against themselves is. I got dogpiled because it wasn't clear in my first post. In the End I was warned because I defended Women views. Say again what a horrible person I am.

See, that's exactly what I mean. You jump into the victim role instantly.

There's no such thing as dogpiling, people quote your post when you say something you didn't *quite* think through. Just like you're doing right now.

Stop it.
 

legacyzero

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,252
The devil does not need an advocate. There are ways of introducing nuance to a conversation without arbitrarily defending the opposite end of an argument just for the sake of it. And if you have no interest in defending that view, you can't get upset when people call you out for it.

Edit: like, you aren't adding anything to the conversation in a thread about specifically convicted GOP election candidates in 2018 by saying "well all politicians are criminals". It's lazy.
Yeah see, that's not devil's advocate though LOL. That's just effortless shitposting if you ask me. Not even an ounce of good faith there.

People get upset about the warning because it's completely unacceptable in 2018. What would you do if you boss made you wear a red miss America sash if you made a mistake or said something dumb. How about if teachers did that a school. Its fucking laughable people would be outraged. Here it's done and you have no say no rebuttal it's shut up and wear the dunce cap or get banned. How does that promote anything positive.
Dont be a dunce? When you're an adult, you earn how infamous you are. Or at the very least, you learn how to not be a dunce and account for your actions. Aspire to be more than dunce.
 
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