Oct 25, 2017
9,015
Canada
Any thoughts on the VGAs?

The new Campo Santo game looks great. Plus it was really cool to see some people overjoyed by the representation in it.

The FPS game by the Ethan Carter devs looks good, but it feels gross to support that dude, even if a lot of his employees are just trying to put food on the table.

Was really awesome that they gave Carol Shaw the Industry Icon award.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
Couldn't agree with you more. To me it seems that a lot of these defenses of more problematic elements tend to pop up in games due to the interactivity of the medium. I could totally get why someone could take criticisms of game elements as a kind of personal attack because of the sheer amount of time spent with it, but people really should learn to differentiate critique of social aspects from games with their own personal experiences with said games.

Like, I'm able to play Xenoblade 2 and enjoy it, and at the same time I'm totally able to understand why people wouldn't enjoy it because a handful of character designs in that game are pretty problematic. I don't take critiques of that aspect of the game as a personal offense or anything, but I definitely see other people who do, and I'm like, why?

I dunno, maybe I'm just rambling, but I definitely think that discourse about this shit needs to, well, level up.

It really is one of those frustrating aspects. I enjoy Lovecraft and can acknowledge that he has a completely fucked relationship with my race. I enjoy The Last of Us while recognizing there's a lot to unpack about strange and interesting type of masculinity murder dad type stories like it put forward. Myself and even more woke people like Austin Walker and Danielle R. can love Blade Runner and even rank it as an all-time favorite even though we don't shy away from the fact that it has a prominent scene that we can't call anything but sexual assault. Even after discussions of race, gender, and sexuality have been had, I can firmly still say there's nothing inherently wrong with me enjoying things that are problematic as long as I don't try to sugar coat or paint over those aspects. The point where problematic aspects reflect on me as a person only come when I desperately and fervently try to shut down any conversation or insights into those aspects as though they are reflections of how I really am.

This so much. Even outside of diversity in games, the video game culture as a whole has huge problems with allowing and accepting critique, which I think exacerbates the issue at hand.

It's a pretty big disconnect. Critique is accepted only when it's considered "objective". People really don't want to deal with the fact that any media, created or enjoyed, is not 100% absent of politics, biases, personal experiences, social insights. The people who enjoy and write about games aren't automatons and we shouldn't be expecting them to be. There is no difference between Jeff Gerstmann and Anita Sarkessian. Both confront games with their own personal insights and evaluations. Jeff's critiques shouldn't be seen as more valid or proper or worthy than Anita's yet too often within our community has been.

Any thoughts on the VGAs?

The new Campo Santo game looks great. Plus it was really cool to see some people overjoyed by the representation in it.

The FPS game by the Ethan Carter devs looks good, but it feels gross to support that dude, even if a lot of his employees are just trying to put food on the table.

I really did love that Valley of the Gods trailer. And yes the representation of a black woman right in the forefront was great to see. I don't know much about the Etthan Carter dev though. What's that story?
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,024
Any thoughts on the VGAs?

The new Campo Santo game looks great. Plus it was really cool to see some people overjoyed by the representation in it.

The FPS game by the Ethan Carter devs looks good, but it feels gross to support that dude, even if a lot of his employees are just trying to put food on the table.

Was really awesome that they gave Carol Shaw the Industry Icon award.
Valley of the Gods looks cool

Bayonetta 3 yes yes yes

Witchfire looks rad but also Ethan Carter guy....euuugh

I really did love that Valley of the Gods trailer. And yes the representation of a black woman right in the forefront was great to see. I don't know much about the Etthan Carter dev though. What's that story?
Gator. Clung really hard to the "its about ethics" narrative for a long time as well
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,015
Canada
Valley of the Gods looks cool

Bayonetta 3 yes yes yes

Witchfire looks rad but also Ethan Carter guy....euuugh


Gator. Clung really hard to the "its about ethics" narrative for a long time as well

I know it's a lame opinion, considering the multiple amazing looking games that have come out already for the Switch, but it's Bayo 3 that's the final shove to get me to pick up the console. I really like character action games.

In regards to Witchfire, yea... I just finished Quinn's book, so my feelings are probably reignited on this. I just can't support that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,015
Canada
Just saw the video. Wow. I LOVE her hair!
If they can really translate that great animation and storytelling to the final game, this will be one game I won't be able to miss. O_O

I only got around to playing Firewatch this year, ended up loving it though. I probably would have bought their next game regardless of what was shown. But damn, that trailer was awesome.
If Bayo 3 didn't get announced, this would easily have been the most exciting announcement for me.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,688
UK
This page is too positive, let me remind you of how some white male gamers react to diversity :P
In reaction to Bethesda donations to scholarship program for women and minority students
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,921
Finland
This page is too positive, let me remind you of how some white male gamers react to diversity :P
In reaction to Bethesda donations to scholarship program for women and minority students

Holy shit, I really wanted to start this day on a positive note. Infuriating responses. Atleast I can lie to myself and say it's just those few responses and others were certainly positive!

Edit: This picture in the Twitter thread is great
DQmFaHQX0AAirxe.jpg
 

Valkyr1983

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,523
NH, United States
Witchfire looks amazing! Day 1

Valley of gods looks great too, mostly for the Egyptian setting. We don't get enough Egyptian themed games. Between assassins creed and this, I'm happy
 

FFNB

Associate Game Designer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
6,282
Los Angeles, CA
That was an amazing OP, and it's interesting to me how much overlap there is between my thoughts on diversity and representation in video games as a black male, and many women's and other marginalized groups thoughts on diversity and representation in video games (and entertainment media in general).

Obviously, it's not a 1:1 comparison, but the fight for better and wider ranging diversity and representation is the same.

The echo the OP's sentiments wholeheartedly. It was a great read, and extremely well thought out. I want to say I commented in this thread before, but I can't remember. XD
 

StonedCrows

Member
Nov 30, 2017
43
There's a topic I'd like to bring up here, if that's okay?

Often, neurodivergence is an invisible prejudice. Autistic people, for example (like myself), have differently structured brains. We're wired to focus more on empathy, less on socialising. In fact, I know that some (including myself, and some others I have spoken with about this) are wired in such a way that we actively avoid socialising as there's an inherent manipulative factor that not only do we not possess, but which makes us distinctly uncomfortable.

In other words, there is innate manipulation in socialising that will drive us away.

So it's easy to spot an autistic person due to our lack of ability for manipulation in a social setting of any description. We'll be the ones who're brusquely honest, then the ones who'll feel excessive amounts of guilt if we accidentally hurt anyone by doing so. So we tend to stand out like a sore thumb.

The thing is? We don't stand out at all, at the same time. It's a paradox, really. What I'm getting at here is that because a person with a divergent brain isn't in a wheelchair, doesn't have a different skin colour, or any other easily identified target for bigoted prejudice? It's hard to see that we do receive no end of hate.

Just Google "Why do I hate [mentally disabled/autistic/neurodiverse] people." to find out. It's gotten so bad that there's an undercurrent of neurotypical supremacy that we can't ignore. A great example here is Autism Speaks, which is actually an autism hate movement (which few people realise). They support the Judge Rotenberg Center (look that one up), and cures which would bring about the eradication of autism.

Many AS researchers tend to speak about autistic people as though our 'condition' is one which renders us completely non-communicable to neurotypicals. In other words, we have no means to communicate with neurotypicals according to the AS perspective. That's why their researchers talk about us, rather than to us, and try to "figure out what's best for us and the families affected by autistic children" without actually asking the opinions of autistic people.

I don't feel like the most intelligent person, to the contrary, I don't know that I'm even of above average intelligence. Thinking about that too much makes me uncomfortable, as does seeing acts of indiscriminate hate as those leave me feeling that swathes of people may possess less awareness than I do, and according to AS researchers, autistic people are meant to lack Theory of Mind. So if I do indeed lack Theory of Mind, what does that mean for the neurotypicals who openly spread hate?

Shrug????

Anyway, not the point, sorry for the digression.

The thing is is that there's this clear undercurrent of neurotypical supremacy that we can't ignore. It's horrible for us. Not many people seem to care, and it's left a lot of autistic people (myself included, sometimes) feeling so thoroughly bitter at neurotypicals that it's turning into a counter-prejudice of our own. It's important to always try to remember to not be binary, but there are days when it's harder than others.

And interestingly, the blind attitude toward neurodiverse prejudice, along with the attitudes of neurotypical supremacy, are alive and well in video games. Even in smaller video games where I'm not expecting it.

My case here is going to be Dreamfall Chapters. In that game, we have a scene where an autistic character is hit with a series of slurs (including the likes of 'slow' and 'retard') by a 'friend.'

Ragnar, the lead writer, thankfully was called out for his behaviour. Not by any mainstream news sites, that I recall, but mostly on sites like Twitter and Tumblr. Interestingly, the news sites DID cover his response, which painted him as a victim of the evil neurodivergent menace.

His perspective was this (paraphrasing for brevity): "In reality, you have people who have awful attitudes and can be responsible for prejudice. If you're making a mature video game, you have to mirror the behaviour you see in reality."

That's fair.

What Ragnar didn't say, though, and didn't respond to when brought up on it was the nature of the problem. It wasn't that the slurs against an autistic character were present, but rather that no one spoke up in defence against the autistic character. In fact, no one even seemed all that uncomfortable about it.

When you have a scene that depicts a strong sense of hateful prejudice, and no one speaking out against it? All that does is cement that prejudice in the minds of the viewers. It normalises the behaviour.

And the hatred of neurodiverse people is becoming quite normalised. Whereas groups like (sorry to bring them up) the Alt-Right would use gay slurs in the past, they've moved away from that realising that there's too much of a push back against such behaviour. Instead, they're now using slurs designed to target and hurt neurodiverse people as not so many people actually care about us.

What's even more hurtful is how often neurodiversity (autism) is mixed up with sociopathy. See Sherlock for an example of this. The autistic person isn't the cold, detached, manipulative person. That's the definition of a sociopath, basically. You just need to add some glib charm on top to complete the picture.

The autistic person is the skittish, nervous person who avoids being around others as their empathy dial is permanently jammed up to 11. So any pain others feel, an autistic person (like myself) will feel ten times more. We amplify emotions, within ourselves. This is why I'm so sensitive to my partner's concerns about sexual objectification (which has come up in another thread I've spoken in).

Basically, if an autistic person seems avoidant it's because they're scared they'll accidentally hurt someone by being honest (instead of manipulative). Then that hurt will come back down on them many times over in the form of guilt and negative feedback amplification loops. Only other neurodiverse people seem to actually get that, which is why we can be prone to shying away.

Some of us can handle these feedback loops better than others, which is why they're more sociable. It's this kind of behaviour though that makes people think we can't communicate. No, we're just afraid of hurting you. It hurts us. It's awful. Plus, it's easy to overload us with emotion and we tire easily, which is something that neurotypicals don't really understand. So they tend to get snippy about us not helping them refuel (extroverts, basically) with socialising.

But not only can we functionally not do it (in almost all cases), but we don't do it for a whole smorgasbord of reasons relating to our inability to handle the milieu.

This is what can make a lot of people detached. As I said, the confusion regarding us and sociopaths is even more hurtful and problematic. Some autistic people, our of excessive guilt and shame (hooray for the overwrought emotions of the autistic mind) will even start to buy into this and believe that they're to blame for being monsters. When really the monsters are groups of neurotypical supremacists like Autism Speaks.

It's an unfortunate situation.

Really, though, the only evidence I need for my position is that the Judge Rotenberg Center is still open. It's still using excessive electroshock (more than 30 times a day) to brainwash autistic people into being more neurotpical.

How often do you see articles about 'curing' autism, too? If these researchers would bother to talk to us, we don't want to be more social. Socialising is manipulation, which plays on our guilt. We don't like manipulating people. Why is that not okay?

Which brings me to my overall point. Deep breath.

We really could be better represented in all forms of media, it'd be nice if people took an interest in us and bothered to learn why we are the way we are. Most neurotypicals don't have a clue. For most, they still believe that an autistic person is like Sherlock. I can only imagine that a few will be nodding along with this thinking that they did exactly that. I don't blame anyone for that, how can I? That's the line that the mainstream media has been giving people. How can you know any different?

And for some of us, the overload is so bad that we do actually have trouble expressing things to neurotypicals (no issues doing so with other autistic people, though). One interesting example of this that came very close to being good was To the Moon. It showed how things are for an autistic person (River) trying to communicate with a neurotypical. They had to use very careful, guarded words, symbolism, and so on.

The question no one ever asks (which sadly the game didn't, either) is why?

Why do this?

Why did I do this as a kid? Why do I still, in person, do this a lot? Why does this happen? Is it because we're cold and detached, or is it because we're scared of neurotypicals and we don't know how to communicate without causing both us and them immense pain?

This is something that not even autistic parents understand, and it's a very bothersome thing.

So, really, I'd love to see more autistic representation. And I'd like to see a lot more accountability in cases like Dreamfall Chapters where genuinely hurtful stuff to further the hate neurodiverse people get.

I don't know what else I wanted to say on top of that, really. I think that this might have given a few of you new perspectives, some might not care enough, and some of you might even be a milder (or worse off) form of autism and either glad at me, or mad at me, for having said anything.

It's a difficult topic, so I'm sorry for that. I'm also sorry for any problems it'll cause. But as I said, I go day to day sometimes just struggling against the bitterness that neurotypical people make me feel. It's so easy to just fall back into prejudice and buy into that myself, but I fight it. I just wish that neurotypical people would make the same effort. I don't think most of them really do.

So whereas I'm trying to remind myself each day that "neurotypical people aren't shallow, herd-like, easily manipulated people who function through their enjoyment of being manipulated by sociopaths" (which is kind of a trope)? I wish neurotypicals would stop blaming us, pathologising us, and hitting us with so much hatred and blame.

And I really wish more people understood that Autism Speaks is a hate group.

I will end this on a positive note.

Did you know that Sesame Street actually broke ties with Autism Speaks when various autistic people presented them with evidence of being a hate group? Sesame Street went their own way with representing autism. If you want evidence of that, hit up 'autism speaks site:sesamestreet.org' in Google. The web result mentions Autism Speaks, but the page does not.

So I'm proud of Sesame Street for actually listening. If only that was the norm.

Edit: Sorry about that, was more TL;DR that I expected. I don't blame anyone for not reading it. And sorry if it upsets anyone. If it's a bit too brusque in how I feel, or anything, as that's the only way I know how to be. Similarly, sorry about not being succinct. I can be succinct about as easily as I can cut off my own arm.
 
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HyperFerret

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,140
I always enjoy reading your posts StonedCrows. Don't let yourself be limited by the fear of a long post length, your observations are frequently very interesting. :)
 

DevilPuncher

"This guy are sick" and Aggressively Mediocre
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,943
Yeah seriously, StonedCrows. That was incredibly insightful. I hadn't known how prevalent these issues were, and I'm really glad you took the time to write all of that. It's definitely something that I'll be keeping in mind from now on.
 

Hampig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,705
There's a topic I'd like to bring up here, if that's okay?
...
Amazing post, thank you for your thoughts.

As somebody who aligns with your description of being autistic but never even considered the possibility that I was, you've given me a lot to think about. Obviously not what you were aiming for, but whatever.
 

StonedCrows

Member
Nov 30, 2017
43
DevilPuncher

Thanks. That was incredibly nerve-wracking to write. I can't stress how much. I'm honestly terrified about talking to most people because of the feedback loops. I can feel so much guilt or shame sometimes that it'll drive me crazy. It's why I'm so withdrawn.

It's also why I don't post as much here as I'd like. I'm very afraid and I can't help that. It sadly, also, makes me a good target for manipulative people as I'm someone who can be picked off fairly quickly, or 'triggered' as the term is into a panic attack.

That's why I tend to avoid social situations. It's nice to know that I was able to say something that was read, though.

So allow me to reiterate how I opened this. Thank you. Really.
 

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,662
StonedCrows
I enjoyed it too...
For everyone that says to you that you wrote something they liked, remember there's probably at least a dozen lurkers who thought "glad that poster said something, i agree".
 

truly101

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,245
StonedCrows post was really eye opening. There is a lot the average person doesn't understand about autism, or autism spectrum, but you see the terms used more in everyday media. I was always under the presumption that autistic people lacked empathy and didn't know how to understand emotion, but thats not the case. I watched the TED talk with Temple Grandin and I thought she provided some good perspective on things I hadn't considered.
I'm floored that there is an actual autism hate group, but I guess considered what other hate groups stand for, I shouldn't be surprised.
 

gioRESET

Banned
Nov 14, 2017
69
This is a complex subject, and no one can hope to adequately cover it in a single post or without proper research. With that being said, here are some of my views on the matter:

- I think a key element of most of these situations is intent. Is the representation meant to denigrate the group in question? Is it borne of malice? Is it purposely excluding the group as part of an agenda?

If none of the above apply, then I feel like we can let the artist do what they think is best for their creation.

- Kojima* should be allowed to have a "Quiet" in his game if he so chooses. It is his prerogative and his vision. If you have a problem with the representation, then you should not support the product. Artists often reach into their own personal interests and fantasies when they create something. It is not wrong for him to draw from that. It is not wrong for people to enjoy what he has created. They are not doing anything wrong, nor should they be pressured to feel like they are doing something wrong.

Most products have a target audience. Targeting that audience does not make the manufacturer's actions wrong, that is how things work. You want to sell something, you do your research on who will buy it and what they like, and you try to tailor it to them. This is Marketing 101. That is why many games have had some generic white dude as a character. As other groups grow stronger as consumers, you will have more diverse protagonists available in games (I feel like we are already seeing this).

I think a push for diversity is good, but I think forcing diversity or conformance down the throat of an artist is ruinous. Let Kojima make what he envisions, it is okay if that product is not for you. Not everything has to be for you.

If you are trying to reach a mass audience, it is in your best interest to have an eclectic cast. But if somebody wants to tell the story of their childhood vacation at some summer camp for rich kids in the 1950s, they shouldn't have to be forced to cram representatives from all ethnic backgrounds if that doesn't fit their story/experience.


*I just used Kojima as an example. Besides being a talented individual, he is also part of a different culture and a man. Those aspects will and should be reflected in his work.
 

PtM

Banned
Dec 7, 2017
3,582
-_-


Yeah, guys, ignorant people are off limits. Shut your mouths if you're not part of the target audience, you don't want to make them feel awkward. Just wait a few generations and everything will sort itself out.
 
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weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,662
- I think a key element of most of these situations is intent. Is the representation meant to denigrate the group in question? Is it borne of malice? Is it purposely excluding the group as part of an agenda?

If none of the above apply

What is your argument if a work inherently denigrates or excludes a group, without being deliberate or malicious?
 

StonedCrows

Member
Nov 30, 2017
43
What is your argument if a work inherently denigrates or excludes a group, without being deliberate or malicious?
I'm actually curious how you think that's possible. It's a position of bias that leads to the denigration, mistreatment, or exclusion of a group.

Without that bias, there is no logical or rational reason to engage in these things unless you're showing it only from the perspective of the group who're being excluded.

That's not a work that denigrates or excludes, though. That's a work which shows the effects of denigration and exclusion, which is different. Which brings me back to my original point about how a work could actually denigrate or exclude without there being some kind of bias present that caused it.

Why would you do it? "LOL random?"

Everything has a reason behind it, whether it is rational or it is not. If the exclusion and denigration of a group occurs, it's because of a reason.

What reason is there to denigrate and exclude without a negative bias powering it?

Edited: I suppose the only argument you could make is that the bias might not be conscious. Still, a negative bias that a person isn't conscious of is still a negative bias. If you choose to not include black people because you have a negative bias you aren't conscious of, you're still acting under the influence of a negative bias.

Still, a negative bias is what it is. Without that, as I said, there's no logical or rational reason to behave in this way. So I don't think you could create a work that denigrates/excludes a group without there being a negative bias responsible. Conscious or not.
 
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Twig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,507
There are plenty of ways to portray bigoted or problematic concepts within a work without being at all conscious of it. The issue many people have is learning to recognize when they themselves are doing it. I, personally, still have racist, sexist, homophobic thoughts (the last one being ironic given my sexual preferences) and it's only due to years and years of shit being called out, either on me directly or with other people, that I can recognize them and slowly make them go away. Or at least ignore them when they pop up.
 

Twig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,507
That question is about subconscious bias.
This is what I intended to say but much simpler, haha.

My post can now be freely ignored.

And note that they said "deliberate or malicious", not, "devoid of negative bias entirely". Subconscious bias is, in the context of this current discussion, unintentional. Deliberate and malicious both explicitly include intent.
 

Deleted member 7130

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,685
Subconcious biases often lead to the same result as conscious biases. Hell, even well intended biases can be problematic (E.g. Deus Ex MKD).

Giving people a free pass to avoid hurt feelings entirely is silly. It should all be called out. People are all the better being made aware of their unconcious dispositions.
 

Twig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,507
I agree that calling out bigotry, intended or otherwise, is important. My only point was to clarify that it is possible to unintentionally do harmful things.
 

Deleted member 7130

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,685
I agree that calling out bigotry, intended or otherwise, is important. My only point was to clarify that it is possible to unintentionally do harmful things.
Well, yeah I agree with that. Unintentional bigotry is a harmful thing. Obviously. I was disagreeing with gioreset's implication that we shouldn't criticize such occurrences.
 

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,662
I'm actually curious how you think that's possible. It's a position of bias that leads to the denigration, mistreatment, or exclusion of a group.

Were you asking me in particular, or adding on to my question that I asked gio?

Because if you're asking me, I'm not taking a position on whether it's possible - I'm only asking the poster mentioned if he would have a reaction to the hypothetical. To see if he thinks Intent is the absolute be-all and end-all of excuses, or whether Effect might be argued with validity from his point of view, to matter more.
 

Deleted member 7130

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,685
This page is too positive, let me remind you of how some white male gamers react to diversity :P
In reaction to Bethesda donations to scholarship program for women and minority students

White dudes only get 90% of everything 90% of the time. RACIST SEXIST

The funny thing I've noticed lately is how cathartic it seems to be for them to hijack these terms because they think "Yeah, that'll shut 'em up.", but really its tranparent as fuck how completely lacking in merit their charges are. Then these same idiots have the gall to tell minorities that their concerns aren't a big deal or don't exist. When bigotry happens to black people and women, it doesn't exist; but when phony ass shit happens to white guys, it's a fucking white genocide. Dat white fragility
 

Twig

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,507
Well, yeah I agree with that. Unintentional bigotry is a harmful thing. Obviously. I was disagreeing with gioreset's implication that we shouldn't criticize such occurrences.
Oh, yeah, haha. I misunderstood. (I think I may have misunderstood that whole exchange, re-reading it now!!!) *thumbs up emoji*
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,352
There's a topic I'd like to bring up here, if that's okay?

Often, neurodivergence is an invisible prejudice. Autistic people, for example (like myself), have differently structured brains. We're wired to focus more on empathy, less on socialising. In fact, I know that some (including myself, and some others I have spoken with about this) are wired in such a way that we actively avoid socialising as there's an inherent manipulative factor that not only do we not possess, but which makes us distinctly uncomfortable.

In other words, there is innate manipulation in socialising that will drive us away.

So it's easy to spot an autistic person due to our lack of ability for manipulation in a social setting of any description. We'll be the ones who're brusquely honest, then the ones who'll feel excessive amounts of guilt if we accidentally hurt anyone by doing so. So we tend to stand out like a sore thumb.

The thing is? We don't stand out at all, at the same time. It's a paradox, really. What I'm getting at here is that because a person with a divergent brain isn't in a wheelchair, doesn't have a different skin colour, or any other easily identified target for bigoted prejudice? It's hard to see that we do receive no end of hate.

Just Google "Why do I hate [mentally disabled/autistic/neurodiverse] people." to find out. It's gotten so bad that there's an undercurrent of neurotypical supremacy that we can't ignore. A great example here is Autism Speaks, which is actually an autism hate movement (which few people realise). They support the Judge Rotenberg Center (look that one up), and cures which would bring about the eradication of autism.

Many AS researchers tend to speak about autistic people as though our 'condition' is one which renders us completely non-communicable to neurotypicals. In other words, we have no means to communicate with neurotypicals according to the AS perspective. That's why their researchers talk about us, rather than to us, and try to "figure out what's best for us and the families affected by autistic children" without actually asking the opinions of autistic people.

I don't feel like the most intelligent person, to the contrary, I don't know that I'm even of above average intelligence. Thinking about that too much makes me uncomfortable, as does seeing acts of indiscriminate hate as those leave me feeling that swathes of people may possess less awareness than I do, and according to AS researchers, autistic people are meant to lack Theory of Mind. So if I do indeed lack Theory of Mind, what does that mean for the neurotypicals who openly spread hate?

Shrug????

Anyway, not the point, sorry for the digression.

The thing is is that there's this clear undercurrent of neurotypical supremacy that we can't ignore. It's horrible for us. Not many people seem to care, and it's left a lot of autistic people (myself included, sometimes) feeling so thoroughly bitter at neurotypicals that it's turning into a counter-prejudice of our own. It's important to always try to remember to not be binary, but there are days when it's harder than others.

And interestingly, the blind attitude toward neurodiverse prejudice, along with the attitudes of neurotypical supremacy, are alive and well in video games. Even in smaller video games where I'm not expecting it.

My case here is going to be Dreamfall Chapters. In that game, we have a scene where an autistic character is hit with a series of slurs (including the likes of 'slow' and 'retard') by a 'friend.'

Ragnar, the lead writer, thankfully was called out for his behaviour. Not by any mainstream news sites, that I recall, but mostly on sites like Twitter and Tumblr. Interestingly, the news sites DID cover his response, which painted him as a victim of the evil neurodivergent menace.

His perspective was this (paraphrasing for brevity): "In reality, you have people who have awful attitudes and can be responsible for prejudice. If you're making a mature video game, you have to mirror the behaviour you see in reality."

That's fair.

What Ragnar didn't say, though, and didn't respond to when brought up on it was the nature of the problem. It wasn't that the slurs against an autistic character were present, but rather that no one spoke up in defence against the autistic character. In fact, no one even seemed all that uncomfortable about it.

When you have a scene that depicts a strong sense of hateful prejudice, and no one speaking out against it? All that does is cement that prejudice in the minds of the viewers. It normalises the behaviour.

And the hatred of neurodiverse people is becoming quite normalised. Whereas groups like (sorry to bring them up) the Alt-Right would use gay slurs in the past, they've moved away from that realising that there's too much of a push back against such behaviour. Instead, they're now using slurs designed to target and hurt neurodiverse people as not so many people actually care about us.

What's even more hurtful is how often neurodiversity (autism) is mixed up with sociopathy. See Sherlock for an example of this. The autistic person isn't the cold, detached, manipulative person. That's the definition of a sociopath, basically. You just need to add some glib charm on top to complete the picture.

The autistic person is the skittish, nervous person who avoids being around others as their empathy dial is permanently jammed up to 11. So any pain others feel, an autistic person (like myself) will feel ten times more. We amplify emotions, within ourselves. This is why I'm so sensitive to my partner's concerns about sexual objectification (which has come up in another thread I've spoken in).

Basically, if an autistic person seems avoidant it's because they're scared they'll accidentally hurt someone by being honest (instead of manipulative). Then that hurt will come back down on them many times over in the form of guilt and negative feedback amplification loops. Only other neurodiverse people seem to actually get that, which is why we can be prone to shying away.

Some of us can handle these feedback loops better than others, which is why they're more sociable. It's this kind of behaviour though that makes people think we can't communicate. No, we're just afraid of hurting you. It hurts us. It's awful. Plus, it's easy to overload us with emotion and we tire easily, which is something that neurotypicals don't really understand. So they tend to get snippy about us not helping them refuel (extroverts, basically) with socialising.

But not only can we functionally not do it (in almost all cases), but we don't do it for a whole smorgasbord of reasons relating to our inability to handle the milieu.

This is what can make a lot of people detached. As I said, the confusion regarding us and sociopaths is even more hurtful and problematic. Some autistic people, our of excessive guilt and shame (hooray for the overwrought emotions of the autistic mind) will even start to buy into this and believe that they're to blame for being monsters. When really the monsters are groups of neurotypical supremacists like Autism Speaks.

It's an unfortunate situation.

Really, though, the only evidence I need for my position is that the Judge Rotenberg Center is still open. It's still using excessive electroshock (more than 30 times a day) to brainwash autistic people into being more neurotpical.

How often do you see articles about 'curing' autism, too? If these researchers would bother to talk to us, we don't want to be more social. Socialising is manipulation, which plays on our guilt. We don't like manipulating people. Why is that not okay?

Which brings me to my overall point. Deep breath.

We really could be better represented in all forms of media, it'd be nice if people took an interest in us and bothered to learn why we are the way we are. Most neurotypicals don't have a clue. For most, they still believe that an autistic person is like Sherlock. I can only imagine that a few will be nodding along with this thinking that they did exactly that. I don't blame anyone for that, how can I? That's the line that the mainstream media has been giving people. How can you know any different?

And for some of us, the overload is so bad that we do actually have trouble expressing things to neurotypicals (no issues doing so with other autistic people, though). One interesting example of this that came very close to being good was To the Moon. It showed how things are for an autistic person (River) trying to communicate with a neurotypical. They had to use very careful, guarded words, symbolism, and so on.

The question no one ever asks (which sadly the game didn't, either) is why?

Why do this?

Why did I do this as a kid? Why do I still, in person, do this a lot? Why does this happen? Is it because we're cold and detached, or is it because we're scared of neurotypicals and we don't know how to communicate without causing both us and them immense pain?

This is something that not even autistic parents understand, and it's a very bothersome thing.

So, really, I'd love to see more autistic representation. And I'd like to see a lot more accountability in cases like Dreamfall Chapters where genuinely hurtful stuff to further the hate neurodiverse people get.

I don't know what else I wanted to say on top of that, really. I think that this might have given a few of you new perspectives, some might not care enough, and some of you might even be a milder (or worse off) form of autism and either glad at me, or mad at me, for having said anything.

It's a difficult topic, so I'm sorry for that. I'm also sorry for any problems it'll cause. But as I said, I go day to day sometimes just struggling against the bitterness that neurotypical people make me feel. It's so easy to just fall back into prejudice and buy into that myself, but I fight it. I just wish that neurotypical people would make the same effort. I don't think most of them really do.

So whereas I'm trying to remind myself each day that "neurotypical people aren't shallow, herd-like, easily manipulated people who function through their enjoyment of being manipulated by sociopaths" (which is kind of a trope)? I wish neurotypicals would stop blaming us, pathologising us, and hitting us with so much hatred and blame.

And I really wish more people understood that Autism Speaks is a hate group.

I will end this on a positive note.

Did you know that Sesame Street actually broke ties with Autism Speaks when various autistic people presented them with evidence of being a hate group? Sesame Street went their own way with representing autism. If you want evidence of that, hit up 'autism speaks site:sesamestreet.org' in Google. The web result mentions Autism Speaks, but the page does not.

So I'm proud of Sesame Street for actually listening. If only that was the norm.

Edit: Sorry about that, was more TL;DR that I expected. I don't blame anyone for not reading it. And sorry if it upsets anyone. If it's a bit too brusque in how I feel, or anything, as that's the only way I know how to be. Similarly, sorry about not being succinct. I can be succinct about as easily as I can cut off my own arm.
Incredible post. I'm going to bookmark this and read it again in the future to meditate on it some more. It's a very interesting perspective to hear, and you articulated your point of view very thoughtfully. Thanks for sharing.