Buckle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
41,467
Need someone to make a new Arthurian Legend show like Camelot but going all in on the fantasy BS and religious aspects. Knights of the Round Table was just full of interesting and weird sociopaths.

Evil incest son black knights, killing kings with the spear that struck Christ, invisible knights, torrid love affairs, wizards, shape changing, inability to find small cups, etc.

Shit was crazy in Camelot.
 
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Pau

Self-Appointed Godmother of Bruce Wayne's Children
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,916
I'd be down for a series adaptation of The Once and Future King.

Gonna be a lot of whiplash (and backlash) from the complete change in tone from beginning to end. Maybe it's easier to start with the second novel.

I also wish we had a replacement/alternative for Mists of Avalon since the author was an absolute piece of shit.
 

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,190
It's oddly interesting, really, how media that's ostensibly drawing upon Arthurian lore often uses little but the vaguest cliffnotes of Malory, in that respect. The Green Knight by A24 was a decided break in that respect, but it's also drawing one one of the more notable, specific texts with the corpus, translated at one point by Tolkien himself no less. It's scraping at the part of the iceberg immediately beneath the surface, but not going to the deepest depths.

The Fate franchise is one of the bigger aversions where you can tell someone has read some sources, but it's also conflicted at times on what it's doing with the material, while also having to reconcile it with the 'all myths are true (sorta)' ecosystem the franchise runs on, rather than being simply Arthurian stories playing themselves out.

I'd love to see more fiction that, yeah, embraces the general array and smorgasbord of sources, especially for the more fantastical and out there elements. Like, Prince Valiant is nice as a story that is essentially trying to be its own modern Arthurian story following in the tradition of the French writers especially, but it's also decidedly low-key and grounded versus something like say, Culhwch and Olwen. There's no young lords going on quests to win the heart and hand in marriage of a giant woman who he's never met, leveraging the fact that Arthur is his kinsman for the resources to, among other things, hunt down the most dangerous boar in the North Sea, aided by a saxon so stereotypical his power is a knife able to be so big you can use it as a bridge.

In this respect, one of my favourite bits of 'modern' Arthuriana at the moment, again in a 'the author has actually done some reading' is The Four Knights of the Apocalypse, which is a sequel to The Seven Deadly Sins. The franchise has generally been one of the better showcases of the vibe as through a Dragon Quest filter (if with writing which rollercoasters on the quality front) - or, there is little basis for Arthur's cat turning out to be evil except for the fact it's that story's version of Cath Palug so of course it tries to kill him - but Four Knights especially leans hard on having those moments that, if you know the variety of sources out there, you will just stop and pause at the names and concepts which come up. It feels like the author ran SDS as a long term prologue so he can then really go off with the twist to Arthuriana he's maybe been wanting to do all along

If nothing else, it'd be nice if we could see stories which better express which set and range of sources they take inspiration from - and that they have an evident set of sources they're drawing on to begin with. As I say, a lot of stuff out there is just cliffnotes of Malory - sometimes by way of T.H. White - and I'd love to see material that more specifically delineates itself as drawing on say, the Welsh texts vs History of the Kings of Britain vs the French romances. Hell, maybe do some of the Irish material where Arthur appears as a cameo. Because there is indeed a lot of stuff that's buried in what was essentially medieval Europe's favourite campaign setting, to use a tabletop metaphor, and it's a bit of a shame we so often stick to surface details, or have 'critiques' that only engage with that surface understanding. From the Dream of Rhonabwy (which by the way, is essentially a medieval time travel story by way of a writer being very salty over what the idea of Arthur even means in a landscape where Britain's been conquered twice by foreigners):
Thereupon they heard a call made for Kadwr, Earl of Cornwall, and behold he arose with the sword of Arthur in his hand. And the similitude of two serpents was upon the sword in gold. And when the sword was drawn from its scabbard, it seemed as if two flames of fire burst forth from the jaws of the serpents, and then, so wonderful was the sword, that it was hard for any one to look upon it. And the host became still, and the tumult ceased, and the Earl returned to the tent.

We have a textual basis for the idea of King Arthur's flaming sword, and no-one fucking uses it!
 
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Kharnete

Has Hecht’s Number
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,965
We've got a recent Warlord Chronicles version at MGM+ (The Winter King), but the original material leans more to a "realistic" interpretation, and sadly the actual adaptation sucks big time.
 

TiamatSword

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,777
Too bad the Winter King show apparently sucks, but I definitely recommend the books
 
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OP
OP
Buckle

Buckle

Member
Oct 27, 2017
41,467
No disrespect to fans of the show but I watched only a few episodes of Fate/Stay/Night and kind of bounced pretty quickly. Just waaay too anime for me.

The people who made Vinland Saga could probably make a good one though.
 
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JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,190
Yeah, no disrespect to fans of the show but I watched only a few episodes of Fate and kind of bounced pretty quickly. Just waaay too anime.

The people who made Vinland Saga could probably make a good one though.

Weirdly, it could strictly count as backstory to the show, since they go with this angle to things

Only loosely relatedly, one dream scenario for me would be an anthology series - something adapting individual stories, without worrying about trying to reconcile conflicting sources. Have Michael Sheen play Geoffrey of Monmouth or something as the narrator
 

Torpedo Vegas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,979
Parts Unknown.
latest
 

Lionel Mandrake

Prophetic Lionel Mandrake
Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,717
A dark, atmospheric show that spans decades that weaves an epic story incorporating as many weird Arthurian legends as possible would be great. Begin season 1 with the birth of Merlin as the redeemed antichrist, leads into the hiding and exile of baby Arthur, and ends with a him pulling the sword from the stone. Season 2 jumps forward to the founding of the Round Table and Camelot. Season 3 is full-blown Arthurian weirdness with knights going on their own adventures. Season 4 continues much the same and sets up Mordred and schism amongst the knights. Season 5 skips ahead and goes into the Death of Arthur.
 

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,190
Would kill for this, the moodiness and style given to more Arthuriana would be a dream.

Plus it would probably be the only adaptation that would give us some of the left-of-center elements. Give me Lancelot's half-giant boyfriend already, storytellers.

Honestly Galehaut probably would be a good way to weave in with other, otherwise standalone stories. Not only because of tying into Lancelot's early days, but also his connections with Tristan by way of a dead dad.

It is a bit funny that one of the least focused on aspects of Arthuriana in a lot of modern stories is the giants, despite them being genericised into most other fantasy. We'll have fucking giant elephants before we'll have actual giants, despite everyone from Brutus through to Arthur himself fighting some
 
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Sep 5, 2021
3,169
I agree, I'm surprised that there isn't any new Arthurian series, and I don't understand why most adaptations of King Arthur (and Robin Hood too) that have come out in the 21st century always try to modify them to be more "realistic", " modern" and "dark", and end up looking like crap. How difficult is it to try to adapt the stories, with the Knights of the Round Table fighting monsters, Saxons, and going on quests?
 

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,190
I agree, I'm surprised that there isn't any new Arthurian series, and I don't understand why most adaptations of King Arthur (and Robin Hood too) that have come out in the 21st century always try to modify them to be more "realistic", " modern" and "dark", and end up looking like crap. How difficult is it to try to adapt the stories, with the Knights of the Round Table fighting monsters, Saxons, and going on quests?

I think a big crux of it is the fact that a lot of people genuinely are not familiar with 'the stories'. They're familiar with the *abstract* version that they can loosely derive from various, existing pop cultural adaptations and references. Some of that has bumped up lately in particular contexts - ie, a Fate fan might be able to tell you who Bedivere is - but you still have a vast array of people who just don't know specific narratives, both as audiences who would like to see such adapted to the screen, but also in a weird way, creatives.

And admittedly, that abstract version is rather idealised, and a lot of people's natural kick against that is to tear into it - especially in a world where monarchy has been heavily criticised as a model of leadership, and the abstract version of the narrative does bake in the idea of the kingdom's fall. The irony then that medieval material can often go to a fairly dark place by itself and doesn't need to be especially modified to get there is an odd one, but also then showcases people's lack of familiarity. Because instead of stories about Arthur losing his heir to a random boar hunt for a kinsman, one of his closest knights being a petty dick who picks on dwarfs, or even just all the imperialism against Arthur's neighbours, those 'darker' and 'more realistic' stories often go for a version of the early medieval as understood by someone who hasn't read up a history book on sub-Roman Britain from within the last three decades, or has very modern fantasy notions of witchcraft slapped on, with maybe some neo-paganism stuff thrown in for flavour despite how bleedingly Christian much of the material is. Also weirdly... insular, because of perceptions of the past as more regional and isolated which, while 'true' as contextless words in text, both ignores the nuances and exceptions within reality, but also does nothing with the conceit of Arthur as a King so grand and prestigious that knights from all across Europe and beyond would opt to serve under him because hey, 'served King Arthur' was good on the CV.

Like, if you wanna be dark about it, at least use some of what the sources already give, rather than just finding ways of making the incest angle even more fucked up
 

Xeonidus

“Fuck them kids.”
Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,369
Agreed! One of my favourite book series is Jack Whyte's A Dream of Eagles. It's a realistic retelling of the Arthurian Legend but actually starts like 3 generations before Arthur with the founding of Camelot and the creation of Excalibur, etc. It then covers Merlin and Uther and finally Arthur himself. Great stuff that would make a wonderful show of done right.
 

Consequence

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,028
Yeah but make it Roman-Britain centered like Bernard Cornwell's Warlord Chronicles or Jack Whyte's Dream of Eagles series.
 

Genryu

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
959
I want to see the Wart get changed into a bunch of animals to learn lessons from some weird old man covered in bird shit.
 

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,190
To clarify, for some reason I misremembered, thinking that there was a faction based on the Arthurian legends.
That's what I get for trusting my memory of a show I haven't watched in over 20 years

Alas, to my knowledge it never happens, though funny enough there could have been an angle for it - since an Arthur, son of the King of Britain, does appear in Acallam na Senórach, and a loose idea that recurs in some British sources is 'Arthur or his Dad go fucking around in Ireland for a bit'.

And yet, for example, I don't think in the BBC's Merlin they ever even mention it, let alone go there. The story is so overwhelmingly concerned with 'Albion' it rarely dares to step outside of it