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Patapuf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,468
It makes me laugh.

It's so over the top i don't even think it's particularily titilating.

One thing I feel like people don't get...she's still fanservice. Bayonetta can be all those things in the OP, and be designed by a woman, but at the end of the day all of her design is intended to be fanservice. Same with Ryuuko in Kill la Kill, she owns her sexuality but is constantly in fanservice-y outfits and situations.

Ryuuko most certainly does not own her sexuality. Almost everything sexual that happens to her is because other people force it on her. Especially the clothes.
 

Deleted member 11995

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,386
Scotland
I just think it's quite a funny coincidence that her hair is also her clothes, and she uses her hair to attack her enemies, so when using her powers she just has to get naked you guys.

Imagine that! Would you look at how that worked out! That would knock me over with a feather!
 

Sakujou

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
290
i dont find bayonetta sexy or attractive. iam not gay, but i dont like glasses or long ass hair as hers.
oh and her dancing is extremely putting me off.

but i love the game, because its so over the top, its fun, its so full of action... just perfect.

I don't play the game because of the sexualization. I find it distracting and childish. If I want sex, I have sex or watch porn. Don't need that as a primary element in my games tbh.
well judge a book by its cover, you did not get anything, right?
 

Mistouze

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,474
I just think it's quite a funny coincidence that her hair is also her clothes, and she uses her hair to attack her enemies, so when using her powers she just has to get naked you guys.

Imagine that! Would you look at how that worked out! That would knock me over with a feather!
B-B-But she owns it.
 

J_ToSaveTheDay

"This guy are sick" and Corrupted by Vengeance
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
18,955
USA
Oh and remember, she was designed by a woman.

Careful now. I don't mind Bayonetta myself but just because she was designed by a woman doesn't eliminate the possibility that her design was still ultimately directed by a man past the artistic phase and moving into the actual game design phase... The artist isn't the game designer or the game director a lot of the time, and I know that the artist on Bayonetta did not direct Bayonetta.

In fact, I vaguely remember Hideki Kamiya demanding her proportions to a certain spec... But I may be misremembering.
 

Laser Man

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,683
I love it, but I think it's more on the cheesy side of things rather than something really meaningful (whatever that means). In short, it's plain fun!
 

Deleted member 5334

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,815
Coming from a gay male, I absolutely love her character. She's fun, stylish, and very "free" about herself, something I wish I could be more expressive about myselff. There's a lot about Bayonetta I absolutely love and I wouldn't change her at all.

While I personally don't have an issue with her design and personality, at the same time, I do at least understand where people come from with criticism towards her.

Careful now. I don't mind Bayonetta myself but just because she was designed by a woman doesn't eliminate the possibility that her design was still ultimately directed by a man past the artistic phase and moving into the actual game design phase... The artist isn't the game designer or the game director a lot of the time, and I know that the artist on Bayonetta did not direct Bayonetta.

In fact, I vaguely remember Hideki Kamiya demanding her proportions to a certain spec... But I may be misremembering.

From what I remember the Character designer saying, the only thing that he actually requested on the design process, was that she wore glasses. She even noted in the interview that he may have a bit of a fetish for spectacles. (To the point he had to fight with the higher ups to keep her glasses intact with the design)
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
it can get annoying in the first game with all the toying around with the minor enemies she does, but the second game is appropriately balanced. it helps that her character is less of a "sexy librarian/teacher roleplay" cliche and more humanized there.
 

danmaku

Member
Nov 5, 2017
3,239
It's funny as part of the over the top style of the game. Also, I do not think she is sexy at all (especially in Bayonetta 1), so I'd consider this a perspective of someone it certainly is not pandering to.

That's my opinion as well. The game is so dumb it's hard to take the sexy bits seriously, but at the same time maybe if I considered her sexy my opinion would be different?
 

Oniletter

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,245
hot take: "she owns her sexuality" is a fetish rather than a justification
Ever seen naked women protest for gender equality?

Doing what you want with your own body and not letting men decide how you should behave ( under the guise of morals) is as feminist of a concept as you can get.
 

Ferrio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,128
As a guy she's the type of character I look at and instead of going "Wow I wish I could be with her" it's "Wow I wish I could be like her".
 

Opa-Pa

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,810
Women are just as capable of creating sexist content as men. The gender of the designer is completely irrelevant, the intention is the only thing that matters.
This is important. People usually try to shut down all criticism of the character and game with that excuse.
I dunno, I think it goes both ways. Mind you, I like the game and the character, and it's true and cool that she's sexually empowered.

But at the same time, there's clearly some titilation for the player. I mean, the getting nude when doing combos is plainly that. She doesn't do it because she likes getting nude, she do it because her outfit is supposed to be hair for some reason. It's a case of wanting to have the cake and eat it.

So at the end I think her character goes both ways, and that's why there's this divide about Bayonetta.

I just think it's quite a funny coincidence that her hair is also her clothes, and she uses her hair to attack her enemies, so when using her powers she just has to get naked you guys.

Imagine that! Would you look at how that worked out! That would knock me over with a feather!
Basically.

I like Bayonetta. I don't find her attractive myself, but I think it's great that she enjoys expressing her sexuality in everything she does. She's clearly having fun, so she can be entertaining and inspiring, but there are clearly some moments where she's not in control and the game uses her as an object for the player's pleasure without "her consent", namely with everything regarding getting naked while attacking and in scenes like the intro sequences where enemies rip off her outfit.

She's not the same as your average sexualized female character in a japanese game, but she isn't completely positive either; it's complicated. She's kind of a happy accident too, I imagine, because I assume Kamiya wanted an embodiment of some fetishes of his rather than a sex positive, feminist icon, but that's another topic altogether I guess.
 

Deft Beck

Member
Oct 26, 2017
844
Space
Bayonetta is one of the best female action game characters of all time. Classy, sexy, and can kick your ass. What's not to like?
 

Mistouze

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,474
Ever seen naked women protesting for gender equality?

Doing what you want with your own body and not letting men decide how you should behave ( under the guise of morals) is as feminist of a concept as you can get.
Bayonetta is not a real human being, she's a character created by real life people. Acting like she has free will is weird.

Bayonetta can't own shit. I mean, she's written as a sexy character but I don't feel like she's written like she has a sexuality of her own in the games. She titillates, she spouts innuendos left and right, she poses for the player but I don't think she's ever portrayed as ever wanting to fuck anyone. It's fucking weird.
 

Phabh

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,718
I'm fine with it, it's over the top.

Without it though, the series would be much more popular and successful sales-wise.
 

dragonlife

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
887
Kamiya is a perv with a heart of gold. I personally love Bayonetta as a character, even though it's obvious I'm not the intended demographic when it comes to her sexualization. I am, however, part of the demographic that sees her as a powerful queen. Werk it, gurl.

I understand the flip side, though. I really do. I'd be blind not to. The wicked weaves, the demon summons, the gratuitous ass shots/camera pans...

I just love how over-the-top and in charge she is with herself, and how it all shows in the game as well.

The cutscene where the doppleganger and Bayo have the dance-off... one of the best cutscenes in gaming, honestly. And the torture attacks on those enemies... again, it's just so over-the-top and the game doesn't dwell long on any one particular thing that it's hard to be offended, but I'm also not a woman--just a gay that loves strong, fierce personalities that own who they are. In this case, it just happens that Kamiya's titillation is another man's "YAS, QUEEN!" etc.

 

RPTGB

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,189
UK
She's great. One of my favourite designs of the last few gens.
Love the fashion illustration styled character design, and she has a personality that's sexy, strong and cheeky. All "Carry On" film innuendo and harmless enough.
There is never any doubt that she is the one in charge.
I can see how people would be put off by the proportions, if they are used to/or prefer more realism in their games but something quirky is a refreshing change.
Bayonetta is a character action game and she has bags of it.
 

CoLD FiRE

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
369
As a straight male, the sexuality and design of Bayonetta does absolutely nothing for me. I just don't find her attractive at all. In fact, the exaggerated sexuality in the game gets a chuckle out of me every once in a while. Her character is ok though.
 

Lurkyseas

Banned
Dec 31, 2017
2,160
Sexuality is part of Bayonetta's character, she enjoys getting naked according to the finishing moves in the game.
And well, she's sexy af and she likes being sexy and teasing other characters. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Oh and remember, she was designed by a woman.

This here.
 

KonradLaw

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,960
I like it. Especially since she's sexy and she knows it. Gives the character and the game unique style that helps it stand out against other games of this type (only Dante makes attempt at being sexy and he usually fails at it badly)
 

Dullahan

Always bets on black
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,410
I think Bayonetta is a badass. I really love her, and her design is amazing (especially in 2).
 

rochellepaws

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,473
Ireland
I've only played 2 but as a character I really love her confidence and resolve, she's faced with some of the most horrific demons and threatening situations and never loses composure which is very refreshing! I found the sexualised aspects to be a bit goofy or odd at times but I never thought of it as problematic since it always fell within her character and within her control.
 

MoogleWizard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,729
I genuinely believe that it is not intended to be titillating, hence the many comments that she is unattractive, weird and creepy, and why the character seems to have so much appeal to gay men. This is also reflected in her design with the strange proportions that are so often called unattractive. She's sexy but not attractive if that makes sense. Instead, she's campy and funny. I don't see her as a playboy bunny but as a drag queen-like power fantasy. She's a freak in her world but she doesn't give a shit, she draws strength from it. She's a a very unique and well-done character whose perception is harmed by the state of sexualization in the medium she's in.
 

Quad Lasers

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,542
As perfect of a balance as you're gonna get between some dude's self-serving hyper-sexualized pervert fantasy(which Kamiya has straight up admitted to) and a beast mode self-actualized feminist utopian bad bitch who don't take no shit.
 

Keasar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,724
Umeå, Sweden
I love her character. She is funny, badass, loves being who she is, she is also absolutely terrifying which is why I don't feel any attraction to her. Seriously, seen what happens whenever a phallus symbol gets near her? She absolutely obliterates it. She at best toys with males she likes and destroys those she doesn't in horrifying gruesome manners.
 

foxuzamaki

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,611
Idk of it was intentional or not but alot of gay men, particullely 2 that I fill low from the smash community are really into her
 
OP
OP
Phendrift

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,422
I genuinely believe that it is not intended to be titillating, hence the many comments that she is unattractive, weird and creepy, and why the character seems to have so much appeal to gay men. This is also reflected in her design with the strange proportions that are so often called unattractive. She's sexy but not attractive if that makes sense. Instead, she's campy and funny. I don't see her as a playboy bunny but as a drag queen-like power fantasy. She's a freak in her world but she doesn't give a shit, she draws strength from it. She's a a very unique and well-done character whose perception is harmed by the state of sexualization in the medium she's in
Yeah drag-like humor and sexualization is a good comparison
 

R.T Straker

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,715
I think it's a bit overused in both games.

The fact that Bayo 2 opens with a shot of Rosa's crotch speaks for itself.
 

z0m3le

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,418
Rocky Horror is a cult classic that is very sexual in nature, I think embracing sexuality is important and that it does line up with Bayonetta's character as far as I can figure. People want to be enraged in today's age and there is a lot to get mad about, but I think it's dangerous to mental health when attacking this specifically. Having said all of that, Bayonetta is still a pretty niche franchise and I feel the sexuality is a big part of that.

I could be wrong comparing her use of sexuality to rocky horror, but from my experience with the character, I think that is fairly apt.

Nah, NieR barely acknowledges sexuality at all, which is why 2B's ass always showing is kind of at odds with the rest of the game.

She's like that because Yoko Taro "loves women" IIRC

Ah, yeah that is what it seems like from the outside. I still will probably get around to it, it was a game of the year contender and I hate missing out on something that is basically made for me minus that design decision.
 
OP
OP
Phendrift

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,422
Rocky Horror is a cult classic that is very sexual in nature, I think embracing sexuality is important and that it does line up with Bayonetta's character as far as I can figure. People want to be enraged in today's age and there is a lot to get mad about, but I think it's dangerous to mental health when attacking this specifically. Having said all of that, Bayonetta is still a pretty niche franchise and I feel the sexuality is a big part of that.

I could be wrong comparing her use of sexuality to rocky horror, but from my experience with the character, I think that is fairly apt.



Ah, yeah that is what it seems like from the outside. I still will probably get around to it, it was a game of the year contender and I hate missing out on something that is basically made for me minus that design decision.
Definitely don't miss out on it. It's an amazing game. My runner up after BotW.
 

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,080
Man, Bayonetta hits a lot of the right buttons for me.

That said, a lot of it does actually come down to her personality and how she's written. She's just comfortably confident in a way that makes it easy to like the character, which then enhances what if any sexual aspects may be involved because it's of a character you actually want to see, at least in my experience. Even sans any actual sexual attraction, the character strutting her stuff and being framed as actually owning it (obviously fictional charcters do not have true agency, but then why even discuss their motives and character at all?) makes her oddly cool, and I damn well wish I could have her kind of confidence to absolutely dominate a scene, whether with her body or wit.

Mind, I don't think the games are 100% perfect in delivering on this depiction of Bayonetta, and given the inherent subjectivity of sexual taste, can understand if people quite easily find it cringey. The pole dancing end sequence for 2 kinda had me going back and forth, for example, because while on the one hand it does seem like the sort of thing Bayonetta would do for kicks, it was also kinda shallow and doesn't really work with how her model - particularly the legs - is designed. And given its place in the ending sequence outright, it came off more blatantly as a designer's indulgence, vs the first one's dance number (though that too is an obvious indulgence).
 

shoemasta

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,032
I genuinely believe that it is not intended to be titillating, hence the many comments that she is unattractive, weird and creepy, and why the character seems to have so much appeal to gay men. This is also reflected in her design with the strange proportions that are so often called unattractive. She's sexy but not attractive if that makes sense. Instead, she's campy and funny. I don't see her as a playboy bunny but as a drag queen-like power fantasy. She's a freak in her world but she doesn't give a shit, she draws strength from it. She's a a very unique and well-done character whose perception is harmed by the state of sexualization in the medium she's in.
See I would be fine with your statement but the fact that she uses her hair as her clothing and also uses that to attack her enemies so that she has to get naked in order to fight, comes off as insincere.

Edit: I don't mean to say that your statement is insincere but rather the idea that Bayonetta is a symbol of empowerment.
 

Maccix

Member
Jan 10, 2018
1,251
She is as much over the top as Kratos and I'm fine with that. Just a badass witch
 

Grigorig

Member
Oct 30, 2017
696
Can't stand the character design and I haven't played more than an hour of either game because of it.