astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
57,550
This debate is heating up in one of the current BL threads and it's a bit of a derail, so I figured it would be better to hash it out in its own thread.

So go for it, where do you think this all began? Did the lines begin to blue over time, or was their a definite first title that defines the start of GaaS?

What elements need to be included for a game to be considered GaaS?

Are there any games that are GaaS like that don't quite fit that bill?

Etc...
 

vestan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
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Dec 28, 2017
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The first GaaS title was WoW imo. MMOs in general in the early 2000s with their game subscription model and expansion packs is what pioneered the system.
 

Segafreak

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,756
There are 2 different GaaS.

GaaS the old way: dlc, expensions and stuff
GaaS the new way: Destiny clone, loot, shallow game with minimal story, game design: central hub location and small levels around it
 
Nov 14, 2017
4,929
I'd say MUDs were the first 'service' games. Wikipedia says Colossal Cave Adventure on the PDP-10 in 1975 was the first MUD, so I guess that's the first game as a service!
 

DNAbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,243
I see GaaS as a model where the goal is recurring user engagement and usually content delivery to accompany that. Destiny is GaaS, Splatoon in GaaS, Assassin's Creed Odyssey is GaaS, I'd even argue FFXV is GaaS due to how it's content and updates were delivered.
 

TheMoon

|OT|
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Oct 25, 2017
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First? Probably an MMO (Everquest?). Something you wouldn't think of when thinking GaaS now.

"Games as a Service" is for games that are actively being fed new impulses from the devs that encourage continued play over long periods of time. Doesn't even have to be content. Could just be events in-game.
 

Rodjer

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Jan 28, 2018
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GAAS is just a modern term for all the games that have continued support after the release with free or paid content and keep the players playing the game for X period of time.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
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Oct 25, 2017
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People get needless hung up on what a GaaS is and isn't

In reality, not all services are the same, some games have more live/service elements than others

The most recent Assassin's Creed is a service game and so is Anthem, but both services are structured in a completely different way
 
Oct 29, 2017
7,536
Borderlands 2 was a proto-GAAS, sure. In addition to typical expansion-style DLCs it had seasonal mini-DLCs, time-limited events, patches that upped the level cap over time, tons of cosmetic DLC, and a season pass.

It definitely wasn't a Skyrim type game where there was the base game, and a few expansions, and that was it. Gearbox had a whole schedule of large and small content released over time to keep folks engaged with the game. I would call that GAAS even if the term didn't exist at the time.
 

Porky

Circumventing ban with an alt account
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Mar 16, 2019
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The first GaaS title was WoW imo. MMOs in general in the early 2000s with their game subscription model and expansion packs is what pioneered the system.
I see GaaS as a model where the goal is recurring user engagement and usually content delivery to accompany that. Destiny is GaaS, Splatoon in GaaS, Assassin's Creed Odyssey is GaaS, I'd even argue FFXV is GaaS due to how it's content and updates were delivered.
GAAS is just a modern term for all the games that have continued support after the release with free or paid content and keep the players playing the game for X period of time.

Pretty much a mix of these three comments. It has an aura of disdain around it on this forum which is unnecessary. More games have benefited from the model than suffered.
 

Nome

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"GaaS" is a business model and philosophy, and there are no common player-facing elements.
Generally you can assume that a GaaS product is seeking a long(ish) post-release tail of revenue and/or engagement (the and/or is because unmonetized games like mods still fit the mold). There's no hard cutoff for what types of games are technically GaaS, but modern games built to be GaaS from the ground up will generally specify within their KPIs that revenue can self-sustain additional development, and GaaS as a common philosophy in games development didn't really crystallize until 2010 or so in Western development.

So you could make the argument that earlier games like Starcraft or even Unreal Tournament 2004 were technically GaaS, but they don't really fit the mold of modern business-driven GaaS. It's a weird line.
 
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astro

astro

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Oct 25, 2017
57,550
"GaaS" is a business model and philosophy, and there are no common player-facing elements.
Generally you can assume that a GaaS product is seeking a long(ish) post-release tail of revenue and/or engagement (the and/or is because unmonetized games like mods still fit the mold). There's no hard cutoff for what types of games are technically GaaS, but modern games built to be GaaS from the ground up will generally specify within their KPIs that revenue can self-sustain additional development, and GaaS as a common philosophy in games development didn't really crystallize until 2010 or so in Western development.

So you could make the argument that earlier games like Starcraft or even Unreal Tournament 2004 were technically GaaS, but they don't really fit the mold of modern business-driven GaaS. It's a weird line.

This is exactly why I was interested to hear what everyone thought.

To me, GaaS is a term that applies to the modern way of approaching this. It's something that's been refined to a specific point, even if previous games over the years could also fit the bill by chance of their design.

...but then that specificity is something I'm finding hard to articulate... hence the thread! :p

Perhaps it's just a more full-on approach to elgonating a game's life-span, to use the base game as a starting point rather than a complete package that gets additional content over time. This is the kind of thing that defines GaaS to me.
 

Jinketsu

Member
Jan 3, 2018
10
I see GaaS a little more literally. You pay for the service of playing the game. Once that service shuts down, you no longer have access to the game. Final Fantasy XIV or Dragalia Lost are examples of what I'm talking about. Games with DLC that is still accessible without any kind of connection to a service are not what I would consider GaaS. Borderlands is still completely accessible (even with multiplayer) without any continuing service. The idea that replay value or extra content is being noted as a criteria for a game being labeled as GaaS is a little silly in my opinion. Games with a service does not denote "Games as a Service" in my opinion.
 

RexNovis

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Oct 25, 2017
4,356
The first GaaS title was WoW imo. MMOs in general in the early 2000s with their game subscription model and expansion packs is what pioneered the system.
If that's your definition then the first example I can think of on consoles was Phantasy Star Online which actually came out before WoW.
 

Azusa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
272
The first GaaS title was WoW imo. MMOs in general in the early 2000s with their game subscription model and expansion packs is what pioneered the system.
If that's your definition then the first example I can think of on consoles was Phantasy Star Online which actually came out before WoW.
Ultima Online was earlier than WoW and PSO.

GaaS is an online only game. You pay for the service not the product itself. When service is no longer provided you cant play the game. As simple as that.
 

Chairman Yang

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,587
The first coin-operated arcade machine was a GaaS title in a way, right? Keep paying (one quarter to buy a microtransaction to continue), keep playing.
 

Phil me in

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Nov 22, 2018
1,292
Some are good, most are terrible.

I remember a publisher saying they were switching to GaaS and were praised for it. Said publisher still hasn't produced anything good since then lol.
 

demosthenes

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Oct 25, 2017
11,742
There are 2 different GaaS.

GaaS the old way: dlc, expensions and stuff
GaaS the new way: Destiny clone, loot, shallow game with minimal story, game design: central hub location and small levels around it

This is the main split that I follow. When I use GaaS I'm referring to the latter mainly. If the game is designed to have customers continually paying over lengths of time, that is a GaaS when I'm discussing it. A game like Witcher 3 where there are 1 or 2 expansions don't really fit the mold of length of time for me. There are 2 additional purchases, and that's it.

There are games that blur this line though. Cities: Skylines has a little bit of both. Full on expansions but also have small add-ons.
 

Khrol

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,179
At a high level it's basically a game that receives significant post launch support in the form of content patches, DLC, microtransactions, etc. It's a very broad term so it can be applied to almost any game.

Generally though, people seem to associate the term with always online, sub fees, aggressive microtransactions, incomplete content, etc.
 

Nome

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Oct 27, 2017
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This is exactly why I was interested to hear what everyone thought.

To me, GaaS is a term that applies to the modern way of approaching this. It's something that's been refined to a specific point, even if previous games over the years could also fit the bill by chance of their design.

...but then that specificity is something I'm finding hard to articulate... hence the thread! :p

Perhaps it's just a more full-on approach to elgonating a game's life-span, to use the base game as a starting point rather than a complete package that gets additional content over time. This is the kind of thing that defines GaaS to me.
That's why I prefer to use KPIs for specificity. Under a broad definition, anything with post-release content would fall under the GaaS umbrella, which makes the term kind of meaningless.

Specifically, GaaS from a KPI standpoint would require that the service portion of the product (the post-release content) is self-sustaining, meaning it'll pay for operations. This includes both development and the cost of user acquisition, the latter of which is a major component to running a game as a service as opposed to the old way of doing things, which blew the marketing budget at launch and didn't consider the problem of how to continually seek new users throughout the game's lifetime.

This is why I don't consider the Borderlands series GaaS in the true modern sense. They had bombastic launches, but never made an earnest effort to grow their userbase after launch. A true, modern GaaS built from the ground up launches with the expectation that after the initial post-launch drop in interest, engagement will actually steadily increase. Older games, even if they technically fit GaaS definitions, do not have this expectation, and never run their operations with it in mind.

In more direct terms, a true modern GaaS uses a simple metric for success: cost of user acquisition is less than the lifetime value of the customer (CPA < LTV).
 
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astro

astro

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Oct 25, 2017
57,550
That's why I prefer to use KPIs for specificity. Under a broad definition, anything with post-release content would fall under the GaaS umbrella, which makes the term kind of meaningless.

Specifically, GaaS from a KPI standpoint would require that the service portion of the product (the post-release content) is self-sustaining, meaning it'll pay for operations. This includes both development and the cost of user acquisition, the latter of which is a major component to running a game as a service as opposed to the old way of doing things, which blew the marketing budget at launch and didn't consider the problem of how to continually seek new users throughout the game's lifetime.

This is why I don't consider the Borderlands series GaaS in the true modern sense. They had bombastic launches, but never made an earnest effort to grow their userbase after launch. A true, modern GaaS built from the ground up launches with the expectation that after the initial post-launch drop in interest, engagement will actually steadily increase. Older games, even if they technically fit GaaS definitions, do not have this expectation, and never run their operations with it in mind.

In more direct terms, a true modern GaaS uses a simple metric for success: cost of user acquisition is less than the lifetime value of the customer (CPA < LTV).
Very well articulated, the main point being the bolded.

Cross posted this to the BL thread.
 

ThreepQuest64

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Oct 29, 2017
5,735
Germany
GaaS the old way: dlc, expensions and stuff
GaaS the new way: Destiny clone, loot, shallow game with minimal story, game design: central hub location and small levels around it
Yes, and another difference is, that DLC and expansions were optional, so you could refuse new content and/or changes. Didn't like the United Offensive gameplay changes and additions in Call of Duty 1? Play without the addon. That's not possible in games like Overwatch for instance; there are no servers running v1.2, v1.5, and so on.
 

Nauren

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Oct 30, 2017
847
Game design that attempts to keep you continually playing even after beating said game.
 

SirMossyBloke

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,855
That's why I prefer to use KPIs for specificity. Under a broad definition, anything with post-release content would fall under the GaaS umbrella, which makes the term kind of meaningless.

Specifically, GaaS from a KPI standpoint would require that the service portion of the product (the post-release content) is self-sustaining, meaning it'll pay for operations. This includes both development and the cost of user acquisition, the latter of which is a major component to running a game as a service as opposed to the old way of doing things, which blew the marketing budget at launch and didn't consider the problem of how to continually seek new users throughout the game's lifetime.

This is why I don't consider the Borderlands series GaaS in the true modern sense. They had bombastic launches, but never made an earnest effort to grow their userbase after launch. A true, modern GaaS built from the ground up launches with the expectation that after the initial post-launch drop in interest, engagement will actually steadily increase. Older games, even if they technically fit GaaS definitions, do not have this expectation, and never run their operations with it in mind.

In more direct terms, a true modern GaaS uses a simple metric for success: cost of user acquisition is less than the lifetime value of the customer (CPA < LTV).

This is spot on. People are going way too broad with this term, waaaay too broad.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,445
Cincinnati
The first GaaS title as in game as a service was probably Ultima Online 1997 or Everquest 1999. I know UO came first but can't remember if it had a monthly sub or not. Regardless those two are the first two games I would consider as a "GaaS"
 

hobblygobbly

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Oct 25, 2017
7,725
NORDFRIESLAND, DEUTSCHLAND
To me GaaS will always be online-only with an active payment method to play (no recurring payment, no access), as that is the only way you can enforce it as a service. Classic example is of course MMOs. The payment method, in this case a subscription, which is required to play, is self-sustaining for delivery of the service (production, costs, etc).

Games with a few or regular expansions is not what I consider GaaS at all and I think it's a term that's lost a lot of meaning and therefore useless as a definition.

A game like The Witcher 3 is not a GaaS at all, how is it any different from say Morrowind in 2004 with its two expansions? Or any game you buy once-off and always have access to which would have expansions...? Nothing about the business model of TW3 enforces recurring payment in order to access the game, as you will always have access to it based on your once-off purchase... that is not a "service".
 
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I KILL PXLS

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Oct 25, 2017
11,673
GaaS = Any game that plans to consistently update with new content (paid or free) with the goal of keeping you playing it indefinitely. Doesn't matter if it's an online game or not even though they primarily are.
 

antitrop

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Oct 25, 2017
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Meridian 59, I guess. It was the first game I was ever aware of with a monthly sub fee.
 

Griffith

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,585
If I'm not mistaken there used to be paid MUDs (Multi-User Dungeons) back on the early days of the internet. Before Ultima Online. I would consider those the first GaaS titles but I think Ultima Online was the first breakthrough success and it pioneered a lot of features and business practices that are still in use today (good and bad).

I would consider GaaS any title in which the service (paid or free) that allows the game to be played is an integral part of the game itself. Destiny is nothing without its online service. Ultima Online is nothing without its online service. You could argue that some GaaS could exist as standalone single-player titles but most of them can't become or be that by design.
 
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Deleted member 40102

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Feb 19, 2018
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Im f8ne w8th GaaS games as long as micro transaction won't interfere with gameplay. Mobile games are big no no.
 
Feb 21, 2019
1,184
GaaS are games designed to foster continuous player retention. Normal DLC doesn't do this. Normal DLC, you play it, you beat it, you are done.

GaaS is trying to keep you around longer. Usually to grind.
 

Trickster

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,533
The lines have always been blurred on loose terms like this one.

One could easily argue that GaaS have been a thing since the earliest mmo's.

One could also easily argue that "GaaS" is a more specific thing, and has to almost be a carbon copy of Destiny for it to be a "GaaS"

Personally I think that any game that aims for continued player engagement, and aim at having that engagement be an continuous revenue stream, is a GaaS game. So I would definitely consider early mmo's to be GaaS games. Likewise I also consider a game like BL2 to be a GaaS game

However undeniably it's with Destiny that the term became a thing, and so I would also say that normally GaaS is shorthand for games that are very similar to Destiny. However "technically" I definitely consider a lot of games that are noticeably different from Destiny to also be GaaS games
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
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Oct 28, 2017
18,498
I don't lumber stuff like Witcher 3, Horizon Zero Dawn and Spider-Man with games like Destiny, Gran Turismo Sport or Sea of Thieves etc. For me there has to be a differentiator between describing these types of long term engagement approaches, and thus the application of the term GaaS, since a couple of DLC options or whatever in an otherwise predominantly SP or static game, is not nearly the same thing as games that fundamentally change and adapt over time, and are intended to be wholly different or more content and feature rich with each new expansion, season pass, update or whatever. To me it's disingenuous to lumber the two types of approach as somehow the same thing.
 
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HellofaMouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,419
When done right: heres a fun game, but you gotta pay to not look like a hobo

When done wrong: heres an ok game, but ur gonna be doing the same sh.t over and over again and get soooo bored, ur gonna wanna pay to bypass some of it
 

Cronogear

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Oct 27, 2017
4,071
GaaS are games that release new content and updates constantly in order to keep players engaged and playing their games, usually (but not always) to serve as an additional revenue flow, whether that be subscription based MMOs, loot boxes, other microtransactions, etc.
 
Mar 11, 2019
549
I associate GAAS more based on classic MMO models. Where the online game does not have a true ending, and with regular updates new achievements can be achieved (improved items, higher levels, new skills, new bosses, new areas, new classes) in the hope players remain engaged/addicted and will cause a flow of new players who are willing to spend on in-game purchases (which when the game is free is more designed towards pay to win) to have a revenue that makes a profit.

What I find horrendous is that these models are incorporated into full priced games, or only certain aspects such as loot boxes, that absolutely does not serve a purpose in the game except for the pockets of CEO's where the game would be better if it was designed without them.
 

BeaconofTruth

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Dec 30, 2017
3,567
GAAS is just a modern term for all the games that have continued support after the release with free or paid content and keep the players playing the game for X period of time.
This, it's just a new marketing term for the same ol shit. Except some of the pubs love being a bit extra to remind you it's games as a scam.