aceldama

Member
Jun 8, 2019
518
You forgot Fable. An unnumbered reboot with 'mmo lite' rumours that sound a lot like it being intended to be a long running GaaS platform.

All their established big IPs seem to be moving in that direction except Gears which hasn't had it's inevitable next iteration announced yet.It ties in with the GamePass model, one and done single player experiences don't.
 

THEVOID

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,993
Place cracks me up. Flight Simulator has always been a long lasting platform. They've always had third party add-ons and modifications. They had software available for this very thing. Nothing has changed for the upcoming game.
 

Sota4077

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account.
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
742
Sounds like a GaaS model.

You may not like it, but it seems like everyone else does.
R1VwDaL.png
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,319
I mean they're popular and plenty of people like them, so why stop. This board isn't the best place to pose a question about GaaS lol
 

j3d1j4m13

Member
Feb 24, 2019
581
I'm okay with it as long as the content is good. I'm afraid that with Gamepass we might see a "base content included with Gamepass" situation down the road where all content past year 1 or whatever has to be purchased. That's just concern trolling though and MS hasnt done anything to hint at that so ill just enjoy whatever they make for now. Ill reserve most of my judgements until I see what they have planned. SoT support for example has been awesome.
 

filkry

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,902
Is there any reason to believe that Forza Motorsport is a platform other than the title? It could just as easily be a reboot to get around their giant number creep. It's not like God of War was a platform game. I think the only game from Microsoft we know is going this model, from a previous standalone model, is Halo Infinite. Fable is also wild speculation.
 

JusDoIt

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,585
South Central Los Angeles
It's fine, GaaS is cool for genres where multiplayer is the main draw, but coming out the gate saying you're planning to support a game for the next ten years like they did with Halo...they might be getting a little ahead of themselves.
 

Spring-Loaded

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,904
Since the game series I'm interested in already have 5+ years between each entry, I'm fine with the premise of a game getting expansion packs/DLC for a while, even if it consists of mostly new scenarios with reused/repurposed assets. I'm sure it can be done poorly, but I'm not against this practice on priciple.

I don't need every game in a series to be brand new, rebuilt from the ground up with cutting edge tech. If this is more manageable for the creators, then I'm all for it.
 

Cactuar

Banned
Nov 30, 2018
5,878
I think you should wait and see how the game gels with the player base before going all in on this. But then again what do I know? I'm just a cactus.
 

MattHeus

Member
Mar 2, 2019
449
Depends on how they implement stuff... Having one Forza that concentrates the whole player base and gets constant updates instead of buying nearly the same game again might be better, but I don't know if I like it on Halo. I have to wait and see how they will go about it.
 

Governergrimm

Member
Jun 25, 2019
6,751
Depends on the game. I don't mind it and I think it makes sense for games like Forza. For Halo it depends. These are franchises that people complain about about being annualized. If it's a service instead of Halo 27 I'm ok with it.

Edit: If this moves the devs further from crunch culture then I'm all for it.
 

iareharSon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,993
I think you're making a huge unfounded assumption that these games are GaaS / Destiny-esque. You correctly said that Halo Infinity is a spiritual successor, under which future stories will be told - and then you randomly suggest it's going to be a platform. No, it's a narrative fracture of a story that's been continued for 20 years.

Maybe they're trying to get away from eventually having Halo 10 and Forza Motorsport 14.
 
OP
OP
Rogue Kiwi

Rogue Kiwi

Chicken Chaser
Banned
May 5, 2019
725
People really want Turn10 to release multiple Forza games in a generation instead of continuously updating one?

lol

For some games it'll make sense, for some it won't. For Forza it makes sense. It wouldn't make sense to turn Avowed into a platform - but expansions would make sense for that game.

For Forza Motorsport it 100% makes sense, I gave up on that series after buying Forza 6 because I was so burnt out on it, every game was basically the same. However for Forza Horizon I still think we should see sequels, I think the location is pretty much the main part of those games and unless Playground are willing to bolt entire new fully sized maps onto the game it would be good to keep coming out with new ones.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
The gass that suck are super aggressive. Theyre not all like that. Just the difference between loot boxes and purchase outright makes a world of difference by itself. Ms was going hard before things came to a head with battlefront 2 but then they reigned it in.
 

Just Great

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,036
It would be a problem if Flight Simulator were *not* treated as a platform. It's a core aspect of PC Sims as a whole, not even just Flight Sims.
 

Nzyme32

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,307
I don't think Flight Simulator and Age of Empires for example can be cast in the same pot as Forza and Halo.
MS made an important move to pivot back to properly supporting PC gaming as it's own entity than trying to shovel Xbox into it in the same way as on console.
That was kicked of with bringing games to PC but also bringing back series that have a long standing history on PC and have generally been quite iterative due to modding on PC, and more recently dlc / expansions. AoE and Flight Sim were there to both show they are taking it seriously having full fledged sequels that are service driven, just as their predecessors became. In consideration of PC and how that landscape is, it fits pretty damn well rather than being merely a reboot for the sake of a service driven game.

As for Halo and Forza, I'm not as certain. It really depends on how that is developed and built. Both have audience for single player and multiplayer, but have been milked to hell with sequels, and tend to be maintained by multiplayer communities. Going more service oriented could work if the content and additions are strong enough, but it isn't clear if that is what the audience want overall.
 

Darmik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
719
I think it's time for games like Halo and Gears to have one major game each generation so I'm fine with it. As long as the campaign doesn't feel downgraded compared to past entries at their launch I don't see the issue at all.

Too early to say for Fable. If they're handled like the Forza Horizon games that's also great.
 

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,407
For Forza Motorsport it 100% makes sense, I gave up on that series after buying Forza 6 because I was so burnt out on it, every game was basically the same. However for Forza Horizon I still think we should see sequels, I think the location is pretty much the main part of those games and unless Playground are willing to bolt entire new fully sized maps onto the game it would be good to keep coming out with new ones.

I think most likely they will do that. Tbh, its just too early for this topic. GaaS is such a broad term, and the implementation can be widely different. Speculating on where Microsoft we'll go because of Sea of Thieves, Flight Sim, and some vague words on Halo is... eh. We'll know more in ~2-3 months.

Most likely Microsoft will take a variety of approaches. Strong SP games, strong MP games, GaaS games, and even F2P with Game Pass perks.
 

Nzyme32

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,307
Sounds like a GaaS model.

You may not like it, but it seems like everyone else does.
R1VwDaL.png

This is Steam specifically though, and shows different behaviours to the console with widely differing audience expectations and likes. Both GaaS and Single player co-exist and have great success, but the specifics of which games do that is quite variable, and often doesn't match up to console.

I think MS are keenly aware of that, and even as they prioritise what releases where and in what state, they're managing what audiences find interesting or latch onto. From MS perspective, it seems:



So multiplayer / GaaS has its importance. But certainly single player has its place too across both PC and Console, especially pushing against a competitor like Sony who excels with it. With Gamepass being a constant factor too, they will have to support both. I do think that single player games will also have additive components attached to the games can hold success on Gamepass for longer periods - additional content / DLC / expansions for Single player more than we've seen in the past perhaps
 

DarthWalden

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,030
I'm still not really sure what it means for single player portion ofHalo Infinite but it makes a ton of sense for Forza, Flight Simulator and Halo mp.

I wish Madden would do it. Yearly updates to franchises doesn't make sense in this day and age other than to force people to rebuy something they already own.
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
20,003
Can't really speak to what Microsoft is doing and planning on doing, but I will say I wasn't pleased when Destiny 2 went this route. The smaller content drops every little while with a biggish expansion every year is boring me to tears, especially when pretty much all the content involves mindless grinding, mostly of activities I've done a billion times.

I get what they say when they mentioned that D2 would have to grind to a halt if they were to make a D3, but Bungie's a huge studio. I don't get why they don't just leave 1/3rd or 1/4 of their team to keep D2 fresh while getting the rest of their forces going on a full fledged sequel.

So just based off of my 1 experience here, it's not a model I'm pleased with.
 

Mighty Twig

Member
May 13, 2020
165
I like it for now. Like anything, it depends on the quality they put out. The base game is coming with a full campaign and multiplayer so I see no problem with consistent multiplayer updates going far into the future if the multiplayer is as good as I expect it to be. If they want to add downloadable single player story content for the future, as long as its meaty enough again I don't have any problem.

My problem with Destiny 1 and why it didn't work for me was that from the first time they sold I think it was Dark Below for 20 bucks, and then a second DLC and then a real expansion for 40 bucks, it became clear that game was going to be too expensive to keep up. The extra cost never fixed the shallow nature of the game, yet it had the overall cost of more than two games.

As long as 343 doesn't do that...please don't do that because I actually like Halo.
 

Patch13

Member
Oct 27, 2017
398
New England
There are real life games like Chess and Go that last for years (lifetimes and generations even) and have tournament structures and clubs and social stuff built up around them.

In principal, a video game with similar longevity and similar institutions would be amazing.

In practice, all the social stuff and tournament rankings and such are artificially built rather than organically grown, and usually built in such a way as to maximize profit for the publisher. That's not to say that there isn't money and shenanigans involved in international Chess or Go organizations. But having everything pat and packaged, and having community ownership be minimal, really limits how good a commercially created "forever game" can be.

There's amazing stuff like the Splatoon splatfests, and awesome community and cosplay around games like Overwatch. But I think that a game would have to well and truly escape the clutches of a publisher in order to fully realize its potential. Maybe in forty years Minecraft or something will be fully open source and available to an ever expanding public of players.

For now, these games have their hearts in the right place, but they'll always have just a little bit of an air of lost potential around them ...
 

Duxxy3

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,093
USA
Not a fan. I guess the upside is that I don't have to spend money on their console to play the games that I do enjoy.
 

NippleViking

Member
May 2, 2018
4,506
Yes, because it doesn't change how bad the launch was. Why should I even bother investing my time in a game that takes two years to actually have enough content to hold my attention?

I like gamepass a lot, but if it pivoted you some weird early-Access style subscription then I'm out.
Because two years post it now might have enough content to hold your attention? GAAS and Gamepass obviously never justifies a half-baked bare-bones launch, but there isn't anything inherently wrong with GAAS and using a game as a platform.
 

THEVOID

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,993
So multiplayer / GaaS has its importance. But certainly single player has its place too across both PC and Console, especially pushing against a competitor like Sony who excels with it. With Gamepass being a constant factor too, they will have to support both.

But MS does. MS does SP and Platform games. Isn't it better to offer a variety of games?
 
May 10, 2019
2,311
GaaS isn't anything new to the gaming world, good or bad. In this case though it's not just a game but a ecosystem with many games in it. There's still a lot we don't know about it and really have to wait and see going forward.

They have my attention but it's on them to keep it. As for Halo, you had me at Infinite.
 

darthpaxton

Member
Jun 20, 2018
1,697
If the games are good it'll work.

If the games are mediocre it won't work.
This is absolutely the right answer.

I personally think the best case-study in this approach could be Ghost of Tsushima. No, Ghost is not a service game, but I am finding its approach to episodic content quite enjoyable. Most of the "side-missions" are 1-4 hours including travel time. I am finding them incredibly digestible in one or two gaming session. You usually end up doing two or three missions, spend a bit of time exploring the open-world during travel time, and stumble upon smaller activities like fox dens, and get to see the beginning and end of a contained story.

Episodic content could be great for an open-world Halo game, but the quality has to be there AND it needs to have a complete "main story" that tells a meaty, compelling story with a definitive end that is available at launch. I personally find something in the ten to twelve hour range to be my personal "sweet spot," but I'm sure many would disagree because this is the internet. Dropping a new "episode" every month or two that contains a two-four hour, self-contained story would be incredible. Maybe one month it will be a new area that was designed specifically for that episode, maybe the next month it's a different way of looking at an area you've already visited. The possibilities are endless. Players that wanted even more Halo could also supplement the episodic content with things like multiplayer, firefight, and forge in between story drops. 343 could also provide updates and events to the non-story modes as well.

It starts to become an issue if things like firefight are missing at launch and added later as the "service content." I don't want to see Microsoft not releasing feature-complete titles or holding back game modes or significant content indicative of traditional releases for later release as part of a "service game."

Avengers seems to be taking a very similar approach with its "War Table" approach to content. There's a story with dedicated, single-player story missions, but also a ton of other content options like co-op missions, training challenges, and other ways to enjoy the game. I was originally skeptical of this approach, but it actually looks very promising. The only thing I would really like to see added is an "estimated time to complete" statistic on the War Table, so when I hop into a session, I can better choose content that matches my time available to play. This kind of more precise gameplay session planning will only be heightened by things like xCloud and the SSDs of next-generation consoles, which will get us in the game and playing faster than ever.

It gets even more exciting when you begin to think about service games in the context of Xbox GamePass. What if Microsoft leveraged the technology it's using to suspend save states to make this new episodic content available instantly? Picture this: You go to the GamePass section and see a dashboard of new episodic content available in all first-party and third-party games. Let's say this is a pretty solid month, so you see a new episode from Halo (estimated to take two to four hours), a new series of races in Forza Horizon 5 (estimated to take one hour), a new episode from Everwild (estimated to take three hours), a new event for Gears 5 multiplayer (estimated to take ten minutes per match), and a new Battletoads challenge from Rare Replay that immediately launches into the motorcycle section of Battletoads to see if you've still got the skills (estimate to take three minutes). If you're playing on xCloud that content is loaded up exactly in that spot (using a universal "suspended save") and on the next-gen consoles, it loads in a few seconds using the SSD and you're immediately into the action. Hopping onto xCloud for your ride home on the bus? Hop in and see if you can tackle Battletoads. Home in front of your nice TV on your Series X with a few hours for a longer session? Take your pick of the new Halo or Everwild episodes or try a compelling new indie that hit GamePass.

I think if Microsoft can look at it through a very consumer-friendly lens, and they've given us plenty of reasons in the past few years to think that they will, I think this could be an incredibly successful blueprint for them and for GamePass. As always, it will all come down to the quality.
 

Justified

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,030
Atlanta
Sucks for Halo, because I play it for the story mode and not multiplayer, so I see a GaaS Halo using the GTA5 model
 

Procheno

Alt Account
Banned
Nov 14, 2018
2,879
Safe, predictable, and boring. But with Microsoft, this is expected, personally
 

VeePs

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,407
GaaS Halo using the GTA5 model

Personally, I would love it if GTA5 SP got the same time & content as GTA Online.

I never play online and could never get into it, but some of the content seems really cool.

Idk how Halo will go. Maybe it'll be half-baked at launch, maybe not. But if its a complete game, and they want to keep adding more I'm down for that. (Not sure about the whole 10 years thing tho but we'll see what their plan is. Too vague atm)
 

Scottoest

Member
Feb 4, 2020
11,479
The only two confirmed "platforms" we have are Halo and Flight Sim, and flight simulators have been de-facto "platforms" with ongoing development and add-ons for decades.

As long as you deliver meaningful value, I'm fine with it. Forza Horizon 4 has been a great example of this - still putting in more free cars and features, week after week, nearly two years later. Not costing anyone a penny. Polyphony had been doing the same thing with GT Sport since it came out, albeit at a slower cadence.

Forza Motorsport would be another good candidate for the "platform" treatment - just keep adding cars and tracks and features, and don't fragment the player base. One home for all your sim racing needs.
 

Anno

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,028
Columbus, Ohio
I'm interested to see how it turns out. It makes pretty obvious sense for games like SoT, Forza, Flight Sim and the like, but I'm curious to see what they could do with something like Halo. Like if they said that they Halo: Infinite was going to be expanded like Halo: MCC - and they don't fuck it up technically (big if I know) - I think that could be a pretty cool model.
 

TuMekeNZ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,278
Auckland, New Zealand
Depends on the game and how its handled.

Forza makes sense so no issues there. Would be happy if GT followed that same route.

Halo seems like a bigger risk as fans have been wanting a return to Halo of old with regards to campaign, so I'm not sure this approach of building on Infinite for the next 10 years is a great idea. Happy to be wrong though. On the MP side of things it makes perfect sense.

Overall I understand why they are doing it. Its on game pass and not having so many people paying full price up front means they will be able to save on costs by not having to start from scratch (so to speak) every 3 years. Might be a genius move or might bite them in the butt. Time will tell.
 

gnexus

Member
Mar 30, 2018
2,299
I think it makes sense. As the development times get longer and longer and more expensive for these new AAA experiences, it makes more business sense to create a platform and update it and add to it over time as opposed to releasing a game and starting on another huge project. Thing is though, the "platform" they're making has to be really fun and engaging. If not.. well, that sucks. I'm really curious to see where they go with Halo Infinite, and how the reaction and how well it does will dictate how a lot of the big XGS games are made.
 

headspawn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,672
Sounds terrible. Very GaaS like.

Given the three games listed, please expand on how that is terrible...?

People complained about the new Forzas every other year without much change, this seems like it'd be a much better situation.

Do you want them to pump out multiple Flight Simulator games?