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What Is Obergefell v. Hodges? Same-Sex Marriage Could Be Overturned Next

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JahIthBer

JahIthBer

Member
Jan 27, 2018
10,396
Maybe, abortion is almost a 50/50 issue in USA and the ban abortion and restrict it crowd are generally not at each others throats, so you can somewhat unite them under pro-life to make it a split issue. Republicans see it as a free win to energize their base and the people who realise it's not the 1950's and are pro-choice are strong democrat voters anyway, college educated white women used to be a base GOP/Dems fought over but not anymore, so the GOP is like fuck it i assume.

Gay marriage is something Trump threw out the window when he said it's a non issue/settled law and a vast majority of Americans support it now, but i wouldn't be surprised if the GOP are pathetic enough to try it again.
 
MOTHGOD

MOTHGOD

Avenger
Dec 8, 2017
1,024
Buttfuck Nowhere
I had the unfortunate experience of being told on Facebook (lmao) that Roe v Wade and the choice of abortion wasnt a constitutional right and should be left up to the states to decide, in their words, "Like it always should have been." And if i didnt like it i should go to a blue state. Like how the fuck does someone even begin to unravel such a braindead ass take? I imagine that will be their same take on same-sex marriage and other protective civil rights cases.
 
HammerOfThor

HammerOfThor

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,861
Alito claims that abortion was "entirely unknown in American law...until the latter part of the 20th century," a statement that would apply to other fundamental rights only established in the past decades, including LGBTQ+ rights.
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Maybe someone whose better with law can explain. I never understood this mindset set that laws are based on precedent. Like, are things not allowed to grow and change?
 
Stygian

Stygian

Banned
Dec 11, 2021
754
Kernel said:
Progress always has a reactionary blowback and this has been brewing since the New Deal.
A black man becoming POTUS made them shit their collective pants and here we are.
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I think Obama was a good president, and electing a black president was a necessary step for the u.s. to take to grow as a nation.
Unfortunately, it also pissed off white america to a huge degree, and that led to trump being elected, which of course led the u.s. to the point we are now.
I'm a big fan of obama, voted for him twice myself, unfortunately without him being elected, trump in turn never gets elected, thanks to the ignorance, fear, hate and spitefulness of a lot of white americans.
 
Kernel

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,916
HammerOfThor said:
Maybe someone whose better with law can explain. I never understood this mindset set that laws are based on precedent. Like, are things not allowed to grow and change?
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Conservatism is traditionally against change or highly resistant to it.

But it's really a bullshit argument by Alito basically saying "we preferred things like they were back then". They're trying to put a positive spin on horrific views.

If he had a smarter argument to make, he would have made it.
 
Hexa

Hexa

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,746
HammerOfThor said:
Maybe someone whose better with law can explain. I never understood this mindset set that laws are based on precedent. Like, are things not allowed to grow and change?
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Laws aren't based on precedent, but ruling by the judicial branch based on those laws generally are. The originalist view is that laws should be interpreted from the point of view that they were written and any change or growth should arise from the legislative branch updating said laws, which is the point of view conservatives generally fall under. The living constitution point of view on laws is that the laws should constantly be reinterpreted in a contemporary manner without requiring legislative involvement. This view is held by most liberal judges, and something that things like abortion rights and gay marriage stem from at a federal level.
 
machtia

machtia

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,530
HammerOfThor said:
Maybe someone whose better with law can explain. I never understood this mindset set that laws are based on precedent. Like, are things not allowed to grow and change?
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Alito is purposefully conflating things. Generally speaking, precedent refers to past decisions. In determining how to resolve a dispute, courts will look to their past decisions on similar matters and go from there. Alito is basicslly looking more broadly at past statutes and claiming that because lots of states tried to ban abortion before, that means there couldn't possibly be a right to abortion under the constitution. That is not how courts typically decide these things.
 
Zissou

Zissou

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,900
JahIthBer said:
Maybe, abortion is almost a 50/50 issue in USA and the ban abortion and restrict it crowd are generally not at each others throats, so you can somewhat unite them under pro-life to make it a split issue.
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This is not true. Americans favor maintaining Roe by a 26 point margin:

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Gallup's latest update on U.S. abortion attitudes finds 58% of Americans opposed to overturning the U.S. Supreme Court's 1973 Roe v. Wade decision, while 32% are in favor.
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Even more extreme of a difference, even among people who want Roe overturned, most of them want abortions to be allowed in some circumstances (like rape or incest):

It may be hard to know how most people really feel about abortion, but one important takeaway from this data is that the vast majority of Americans — somewhere between 85 and 90 percent, according to most polls — think abortion should be legal in at least some circumstances. Total bans on abortion, which have now passed in three states, are popular only with a small sliver of the public.
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Nearly all Americans think abortion should be legal in certain circumstances. Despite that, a bunch of states are going to outright ban abortion (without exceptions for rape or incest) the minute Roe is overturned.
 
Thordinson

Thordinson

Banned
Aug 1, 2018
18,129
Zissou said:
This is not true. Americans favor maintaining Roe by a 26 point margin:



Even more extreme of a difference, even among people who want Roe overturned, most of them want abortions to be allowed in some circumstances (like rape or incest):



Nearly all Americans think abortion should be legal in certain circumstances. Despite that, a bunch of states are going to outright ban abortion (without exceptions for rape or incest) the minute Roe is overturned.
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These are national polls and several states don't line up with those percentages, sadly.

Cerulean_skylark said:
This supreme court voted IN FAVOUR of LGBTQ anti-discrimination in employment in 2020.

The Supreme Court Bans Employment Discrimination Towards Sexual and Gender Minorities | Office of Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion

www.edi.nih.gov www.edi.nih.gov

It will be fucking wild to see the heel-turn on lgbtq rights.
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Same-sex marriage will be about state's rights, just like their rationale with abortion.
 
Voras

Voras

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
302
JahIthBer said:
Maybe, abortion is almost a 50/50 issue in USA and the ban abortion and restrict it crowd are generally not at each others throats, so you can somewhat unite them under pro-life to make it a split issue. Republicans see it as a free win to energize their base and the people who realise it's not the 1950's and are pro-choice are strong democrat voters anyway, college educated white women used to be a base GOP/Dems fought over but not anymore, so the GOP is like fuck it i assume.

Gay marriage is something Trump threw out the window when he said it's a non issue/settled law and a vast majority of Americans support it now, but i wouldn't be surprised if the GOP are pathetic enough to try it again.
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Abortion is definitely not a 50/50 issue in the US, way more like 60/40 in favor.
 
III-V

III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
A snippet was posted earlier, but here is the larger discussion from Shapiro, you know, the guy Musk is retweeting

 
NHarmonic.

NHarmonic.

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,298
Evil fuckers, they will probably push for this soon.

Republicans are cancer.
 
Voras

Voras

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
302
Thordinson said:
As a whole, yes. State by state is different and why we are where we are.
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I would say that why we are where we are is less about the general public's opinions on abortion and way more about Republicans seizing power through voter disenfranchisement, gerrymandering, stealing supreme court seats and other political power grabs. It's not a coincidence that red states are generally harder to vote in than blue states.
 

onadesertedisland

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,660
Kernel said:
Conservatism is traditionally against change or highly resistant to it.

But it's really a bullshit argument by Alito basically saying "we preferred things like they were back then". They're trying to put a positive spin on horrific views.

If he had a smarter argument to make, he would have made it.
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Conservative thought has a foundation of fear and a rigid adherence to an immutable social hierarchy. It's easily exploited.
 
Thordinson

Thordinson

Banned
Aug 1, 2018
18,129
Voras said:
I would say that why we are where we are is less about the general public's opinions on abortion and way more about Republicans seizing power through voter disenfranchisement, gerrymandering, stealing supreme court seats and other political power grabs. It's not a coincidence that red states are generally harder to vote in than blue states.
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This as well.
 
Kernel

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,916
onadesertedisland said:
Conservative thought has a foundation of fear and a rigid adherence to an immutable social hierarchy. It's easily exploited.
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Yeah hierarchy is the big word. That's why they oppose any attempts at equality and call it socialism.
In their view, the government job is to enforce the hierarchy not promote equality.
Hence why vaccine/mask mandates are "my body my choice" but abortion isn't "my body my choice".
 
Digital Dinosaur

Digital Dinosaur

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,082
Rita Repulsa's Moon Palace
At the very least, I'd expect the court to completely throw out Obergefell under the rationalization that Windsor, the previous case, had resulted in same-sex marriage being recognized at the federal level. In other words, states rights used to start chipping away at equality.

Of course conservatives will immediately turn around and go after Windsor next, just as they are going after abortion nationwide next.
 
SuperDevilJoe

SuperDevilJoe

Member
Dec 27, 2021
750
I don't see any other way of stopping these regressive policies & politicians other than full on rebellion. They keep winning, and all we've been able to do is gain minor victories or holding back the inevitable a couple years.
 
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