Genuine question: who started the whole crossover fighters thing? Was it Marvel x Capcom? Because the way I see it, Smash Brs. wouldn't be much of a phenmenon if it wasn't for the EVERYONE IS HERE factor.
King of Fighters in 1994, probably. Definitely not Marvel vs Capcom since that has its origins in Akuma's appearance in X-Men: Children of the Atom a few months later.Genuine question: who started the whole crossover fighters thing? Was it Marvel x Capcom? Because the way I see it, Smash Brs. wouldn't be much of a phenmenon if it wasn't for the EVERYONE IS HERE factor.
Virtual On was on its second game when Power Stone was released.
SNK technically was the innovator in that regard. Or at least, their games were the first ones to features "Guest Characters" with Ryo from Final Fight guest-starring in Fatal Fury, and Geese similarly guest-starring in Final Fight. And this all ultimately culminated in KOF 94 which was their big cross-over game of the various franchises.
This is where Sakurai got his inspiration for Smash.
King of Fighters in 1994, probably. Definitely not Marvel vs Capcom since that has its origins in Akuma's appearance in X-Men: Children of the Atom a few months later.
But Banpresto was pumping out crossover video games on a regular basis since their sumo game in 1990. There was a Shonen Jump crossover game in 1989, Famicom Jump Retsuden. I'm sure there are other things that I can't immediately think of as well.
In all fairness, Pixel said Smash was an introduction to IPs, not a guaranteed bridge.The bolded wasn't really as big of an impact for the franchises included. While Smash did help get Fire Emblem localized in the first place, the series was still on the brink of death before Awakening. Likewise, the likes of Dragon Quest & KoF didn't see a noticeable boost from the inclusions of Hero & Terry respectively in Smash.
You mean Geese appeared in Art of Fighting 2.SNK technically was the innovator in that regard. Or at least, their games were the first ones to features "Guest Characters" with Ryo from Final Fight guest-starring in Fatal Fury, and Geese similarly guest-starring in Final Fight. And this all ultimately culminated in KOF 94 which was their big cross-over game of the various franchises.
This is where Sakurai got his inspiration for Smash.
SHout Outs to Fighters Megamix for being a crossover where it didn't matter if the characters made sense or not (Hornet, AM2 Palmtree, a giant inflatable bear)King of Fighters in 1994, probably. Definitely not Marvel vs Capcom since that has its origins in Akuma's appearance in X-Men: Children of the Atom a few months later.
But Banpresto was pumping out crossover video games on a regular basis since their sumo game in 1990. There was a Shonen Jump crossover game in 1989, Famicom Jump Retsuden. I'm sure there are other things that I can't immediately think of as well.
I also don't understand the issue some have with NRS game animations. Street Fighter is always held up as the gold standard for fighting game animations and it baffles my mind. Do they look good? Yes Do they look objectively better than MK's not at all. I don't think a magical ninja from hell needs to explain to me how he jumps up so high without bending his knees to the the ground. Its a magical ninja for godsake. I think MK has actually been the most influential fighting game of all time. Eclipsing even Street Fighter.MK is such a massive pop culture phenomena, but that's due to its violence, characters and lore. Mechanically, outside of finishing moves, single player content and maybe the series' love for secrets, there isn't a real long lasting influence on fighting games. But its violence is definitely critical in forming standardised age ratings, alongside DOOM and Night Trap.
I would say either Smash or the Vs series for actual influence on fighting games.
True.. I still think the series is one of if not the most influential in general.
This thread makes me wonder what a determination of influence of (active) fighting game IP's by decade would look like. Street Fighter and Virtua Fighter take it for the 90's, but who was really running things in the 2000's? And I mean inspiring others companies/franchises to emulate them. Like, Tekken and Dead or Alive might have some claim to that title, at least as far as 3D Mortal Kombat was concerned. The rise of anime fighters throughout that decade gives a posthumous win to Darkstalkers, but for the series that were still actually seeing new games and changing the industry's tides so to speak, I'm not really sure.
No need to make an argument when most people agree. SFII codified the 2D fighting game genre. Virtua Fighter codified the 3D fighting game genre and singlehandedly encouraged the whole industry to embrace 3D. These are baseline understandings that most people willing to discuss fighting game influence already have.
If you gonna driveby at least hit somebody, damn.
Darkstalkers is that game.
I feel like people in this thread want MK to be considered that influential just because of its popularity. I give you the ESRB rating system but that doesn't have much to do with fighting games. The series itself hasn't done much in terms of mechanics that revolutionized the genre. There's nothing wrong with that in general, but for something to be considered one of the most influential fighting games it has to have contributed to the genre as a whole in ways that still appear in fighting games today.I'm offended that MK is considered a 3rd place on this list tbh, no doubt SF is 1, but I'd wager MK has had more impact in the last 30 years than any other game I can think of.
3rd is close because you get into games that created sub-genres between Tekken and Virtua Fighter for 3d fighters, then Smash for whatever we are calling those now "party fighters"?, then the Capcom vs. series namely Marvel vs. Capcom. KoF falling in this same realm,, but then I'd argue Fatal Fury being the actual series backbone of influence there.
So naturally the 3rd most influential goes to..Primal Rage
It's inseparable tbh. Success drives design choices.
Id also wager Smash's success is also at least somewhat a part of the larger push toward simplified inputs and the like.
Smash is one of the earliest, most successful examples of doing IP cross-over in gaming. I think its influence in that regard goes beyond fighting games, but it certainly has had a large impact on its own subgenre and to a lesser extent the use of "guest" fighters in other franchises.
This thread makes me wonder what a determination of influence of (active) fighting game IP's by decade would look like. Street Fighter and Virtua Fighter take it for the 90's, but who was really running things in the 2000's? And I mean inspiring others companies/franchises to emulate them. Like, Tekken and Dead or Alive might have some claim to that title, at least as far as 3D Mortal Kombat was concerned. The rise of anime fighters throughout that decade gives a posthumous win to Darkstalkers, but for the series that were still actually seeing new games and changing the industry's tides so to speak, I'm not really sure.
I feel like people in this thread want MK to be considered that influential just because of its popularity. I give you the ESRB rating system but that doesn't have much to do with fighting games. The series itself hasn't done much in terms of mechanics that revolutionized the genre. There's nothing wrong with that in general, but for something to be considered one of the most influential fighting games it has to have contributed to the genre as a whole in ways that still appear in fighting games today.
I don't even play Darkstalkers, but I think the fact that chain combos, EX moves and air dashes originated from that series makes it a bit more influential than MK even though it's not a popular series.
..yes....? I don't follow.
Sakurai isn't shy in letting the World know that KOF was his inspiration for Smash. Even the invitation letters we see characters get in the trailers are something taken directly from KOF.I see! In any case, this prevents me from thinking of Smash as a groundbreaking series on the same level as the others.
Smash did NOT pioneer crossover games. It didn't even pioneer fighting game specific crossovers.
The first four KOF titles and all the Versus titles up to MVC1 pre-date Smash 64. Sakurai himself apparently used to play KOF95.
I have little experience with KOF, but a quick search seems to indicate its a crossover of different fighting games into one.
I said I wasn't gonna brush the ESRB thing aside, but that didn't really change the genre compared to others though. There aren't a lot of fighting games that have a mature rating, fatalities, or tons of blood and gore. If anything that's what makes MK stands out from the rest rather than being something that fundamentally changed the way the genre was played.Forget fighting game mechanics though (which I'm ill-equipped to discuss), MK had a massive impact on aesthetics and basically just an entire mood. People are writing off the whole ESRB thing as just the lamentations of concerned parents or something but MK was among the first ultra-violent games and along with the later Doom paved the way for others to depict violence through video games, which has had enormous impact still resonating to this day.
Now you can argue whether that's a good thing or not but you can't deny the impact on subsequent game design both in and well outside of the fighting game genre.
Fighters Megamix was a crossover fighting game with non fighting game characters, and had a "guest" character in Pepsi Man lolI have little experience with KOF, but a quick search seems to indicate its a crossover of different fighting games into one. And MVC is literally "IP1 x IP2". Neither are really what Smash was originally, and especially is not what it is now. They're not really even that similar to the concept of "guests" that I was talking about, surprising one-off inclusions from completely unrelated IP.
I have little experience with KOF, but a quick search seems to indicate its a crossover of different fighting games into one.
Slight nitpick, it was Fighting Vipers Pepsiman was in, not Fighters Megamix.Fighters Megamix was a crossover fighting game with non fighting game characters, and had a "guest" character in Pepsi Man lol
Damn, I'm a fraudSlight nitpick, it was Fighting Vipers Pepsiman was in, not Fighters Megamix.
I could be wrong, and should anyone know otherwise they're free to correct me, but pretty sure MK also introduced mirror matches (both the term and the ability for two people to pick the same character) and juggles.Its Mortal Kombat by a mile.
It started the glorification and spectacle of violence in fighting games, made secret characters/finishers/stages/modes a thing, spawned a thousand try-hard clones, created the ESRB, and really pushed character back stories, lore and timelines in a way that was pretty unique for the time.
Fighting games, sports games, side scrolling shooters, top down shooters. It pulled from them all. The huge part of the cast never even been in a fighting game before.
Fighters Megamix was a crossover fighting game with non fighting game characters, and had a "guest" character in Pepsi Man lol
Well SFII Champion Edition came out slightly before MK1 so technically that game had mirror matches first but Im not too sure if SFIICE was widely distributed in the US before MK so it might have seemed like MK did it first. Juggles you might be right Im trying to think of any fighters pre 1992 that had them..I could be wrong, and should anyone know otherwise they're free to correct me, but pretty sure MK also introduced mirror matches (both the term and the ability for two people to pick the same character) and juggles.
KI 2013 deserves some love for bringing the season pass model to fighting games that everyone copies now.
Agreed. I'd probably put MK above Virtua Fighter honestly.
I don't think the youngins realize just the impact MK had.