What went wrong with the Flash(2014)

[DragonSJG]

The Flash is probably the most popular show of the Arrowverse and ongoing with an impressive streak of 7 seasons and an 8th one upcoming. When it first aired, people actually liked the first season due to its intriguing plot. While season 2 was not bad, it had some issues like retreading an earlier twist. Season 3 is generally considered to be the decline as writing became nonsensical as we started to get bad villain, with the worst being cicada, same hallway talk, Barry acting like a useless idiot despite being the Flash, the Rogues being lame/underused and season 7 gives us this bizzare family plot line. Just what went wrong with this show?

 

[Slayven]

First his name wasn't Wally West, that was the first thing they did wrong

 

[Magneto]

Just what went wrong with this show?

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CW

 

[Tomacco]

Only made it to about halfway through season 5, but Iris!

The only reason I got through any of season 5 was because I thought they might kill her off.

 

[BossAttack]

CW

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^^^^

Now, can I talk to you for a minute over here?

 

[jwk94]

Only made it to about halfway through season 5, but Iris!

The only reason I got through any of season 5 was because I thought they might kill her off.

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As soon as they got married, it locked her contract in. There's no way she's leaving the show unless they actually kill her.

I'm honestly not sure what wrong besides the poor writing.

 

[The Unsent]

Imo they played it too safe, Zoom and Savitar were similar to Thawne, dark side counterparts, but not as good the first time, and they've had the same base throughout the whole show.

Even apart from what I assume is lower budgets over the series' run, I think they needed to take more risks and shake things up. Funnily enough, Arrow was a mixed bag, but I always felt they tried to shake up the premise.

 

[Bor Gullet]

The story and characters didn't grow, and the repetitive stories weren't interesting anymore due to a sharp decline in writing.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

"WE are the Flash."

 

[Bor Gullet]

^^^^

Now, can I talk to you for a minute over here?

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IT'S THE SAME GREY HALLWAY EVERY TIME.

For fucks sake, at least Arrow mostly had diverse locations.

 

[astro]

"WE are the Flash."

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For sure

This was such a terrible idea and execution.

 

[ZeoVGM]

CW

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^^^^

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Definitely not.

Plenty of genre shows have thrived for most if not all of their run on The CW. The Flash's issues became apparent at the end of season 2 and it really never recovered, only getting to worse seasons down the line.

Arrow fell to its lowest point in season 4 but came back for one of its best seasons in season 5. Season 7 was also good and it went out with the very good season 8. Legends got better after season 1 and has remained one of the best superhero shows on TV up through its current 6th season. Black Lightning had four amazing seasons. iZombie was great for most of its run. Supernatural lasted 15 seasons and despite the peak being seasons 4/5, it was still a largely good show with some great seasons after.

The idea that "CW is what went wrong with The Flash" isn't true. Bad writing is what went wrong with The Flash.

 

[PanzerKraken]

They kind of blew their load story wise on the first season, really that stuff should have been built up to with maybe some other minor villains and plots.

 

[MrZaha]

Two characters on the show would have some sort of problem with each other. Then for them to beat the villian of the week it would force them to reconcile. This would happen over and over. Is everyone really okay with cecil violating peoples minds cause i wouldnt be cool with her.

 

[BWoog]

I'd be hard-pressed to think of a show that had such highs compared to such low lows (Maybe Weeds?).

The first season is probably the best superhero television story pound for pound, and it really just came down to awful story telling slowly infecting every part of the series. Season Two wasn't terrible but it was a serious decline from season one and that decline never stopped.

When Savitar was revealed to be future evil Barry, I knew the show was donezo.

 

[Joni]

Kreisberg's abusive behavior meant a toxic writing room that people quickly wanted to leave.

 

[BossAttack]

Definitely not.

Plenty of genre shows have thrived for most if not all of their run on The CW. The Flash's issues became apparent at the end of season 2 and it really never recovered, only getting to worse seasons down the line.

Arrow fell to its lowest point in season 4 but came back for one of its best seasons in season 5. Season 7 was also good and it went out with the very good season 8. Legends got better after season 1 and has remained one of the best superhero shows on TV up through its current 6th season. Black Lightning had four amazing seasons. iZombie was great for most of its run. Supernatural lasted 15 seasons and despite the peak being seasons 4/5, it was still a largely good show with some great seasons after.

The idea that "CW is what went wrong with The Flash" isn't true. Bad writing is what went wrong with The Flash.

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I'm merely jesting in that Flash embraced the worst of the CW elements. Other shows are able to work with or eschew the CW aesthetic, but Flash wallows in them.

 

[Wrexis]

Trying to keep it running for 8 years. A strong 4 year run and it would have been remembered fondly in 20 years. Now not so much.

 

[TheChungusAmongUs]

It's the CW.

I was super into Arrow during S1 and 2 even when you begin to realize the motivation of the villain of S2 was basically a dumb love triangle.

But yeah CW is always teen drama first, superhero show second.

 

[Masterz1337]

They trying to stick to a formula and status quo always really hurt. I think the big mistake was not letting flashpoint be of real consequence, the show seemed to sort of say fuck it and threw in the towel on having any ambition. I loved season 2 for the most part, and 1 is obviously great. But when you got to 3 it was just formulaic.

 

[Joni]

Trying to keep it running for 8 years. A strong 4 year run and it would have been remembered fondly in 20 years. Now not so much.

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You could claim that about shows like Supernatural, but you can't claim that about a show that went downhill midway through season 2.

 

[BWoog]

They trying to stick to a formula and status quo always really hurt. I think the big mistake was not letting flashpoint be of real consequence, the show seemed to sort of say fuck it and threw in the towel on having any ambition. I loved season 2 for the most part, and 1 is obviously great. But when you got to 3 it was just formulaic.

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It was wild that Flashpoint only lasted for one episode.

 

[The Unsent]

You could claim that about shows like Supernatural, but you can't claim that about a show that went downhill midway through season 2.

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Yeah ironically enough, jump the shark episode for me, was an episode called King Shark. The underwhelming reveal of Zoom's identity, felt like they ran out of ideas already, to do the secret villain in the team again.

 

[BossAttack]

 

[devenger]

I watched about 60 seconds, someone came into a bar at super speed and robbed everyone. Barry stood there looking confused and I noped out.

 

[Joni]

If you want to understand how the writers room might have been messed up at Supergirl and The Flash, some choice quotes. That is something hard to come back from

It was an environment in which women — assistants, writers, executives, directors — were all evaluated based on their bodies, not on their work.

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Two women say he would talk about how he hired staffers based on their looks, and one quoted him as saying, "You should have seen the other dogs we interviewed for that position."

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A high-level producer at a CW show says that a young woman who worked in two successive lower-level jobs was the object of Kreisberg's "obsessive crush," and left due to his unwanted attention, an account confirmed by more than a dozen other sources.

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‘Supergirl,’ ‘Arrow’ Producer Suspended Amid Sexual Harassment Allegations by Warner Bros.

Warner Bros. TV Group has launched an investigation into allegations of inappropriate behavior by Andrew Kreisberg, an executive producer on the CW shows “Arrow,” “Supergirl,” “The Flash” and “DC’s Legends of Tomorrow,”

variety.com

 

[I_love_potatoes]

Iris' character is meh... wish they kept her out of the loop of knowing who Flash was for a longer time and made her character better. She's just not interesting.

Sucks how quickly they want to develop characters. Look back at Smallville where Clark evolved overtime with his abilities. Now I won't say they should take as long, but I would rather they make him a hero over time rather than going from Point A to Point B in about 2/3 episodes. Let the characters develop their story, let them be more intrigued in this masked hero saving lives.

 

[Masterz1337]

Yeah ironically enough, jump the shark episode for me, was an episode called King Shark. The underwhelming reveal of Zoom's identity, felt like they ran out of ideas already, to do the secret villain in the team again.

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The way the zoom reveal went could have been better, but the way that last stretch of the season went and the killing of his dad was just… well not great. It could have been fixed with flashpoint and his dad could have lived, but as much as I like Zoom the ending was underwhelming.

I really liked Teddy Sears as Zoom too. Even without the mask he played a good psychopath.

Also the fun of earth two made that season really great.

I wish season 3 was entirely in set in the alternate timeline with season 4 being after he reset the universe.

 

[Kyari]

Once it started heavily leaning into the season long villain stuff it got pretty trying. "We'll get him this time! Aw beans he got away" for 20 episodes.

Also they didn't know what to do with Iris, so having her be the Team Leader/voice in Barry's ear just makes it so that Barry doesn't really ... know what to do in any situation?

 

[Jimnymebob]

• Villains weren't interesting
• Cisco decided to sleepwalk his performance for like 5 seasons
• Wells got old after the 4th version
• Wally was criminally underused
• Barry is the stupidest character on TV
• Iris keeps getting major things to do while simultaneously not doing anything at all...
• ... Which isn't just an Iris problem, as practically all the cast outside of Barry, Killer Frost, and certain Wells have absolutely nothing to do for most season, yet they keep adding more main cast members
• Seriously, the villains are laughably bad
• There's a tendency for characters to just never show up again
• Hallway talks
• Taking away Barry's speed is something that seemingly every villain can do now
• Barry trying to be an authoritative figure on anything is insufferable

 

[The Unsent]

The way the zoom reveal went could have been better, but the way that last stretch of the season went and the killing of his dad was just… well not great. It could have been fixed with flashpoint and his dad could have lived, but as much as I like Zoom the ending was underwhelming.

I really liked Teddy Sears as Zoom too. Even without the mask he played a good psychopath.

Also the fun of earth two made that season really great.

I wish season 3 was entirely in set in the alternate timeline with season 4 being after he reset the universe.

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I thought Teddy Sears was ok as a hammy villain, and he really looks the part of Hunter Zolomon, but I think they overhyped him, when Tony Todd did the overworldy voice. He made Thawne look insignificant, like this guy was the real deal, and he just felt like a mediocre follow-up, by the end.

 

[deadman322]

didn't kill off barry and have wally take up the mantle.

 

[Komarkaze]

For me, it was the revelation of this line: "I am the future, Flash!"

Also I though it was weird that Iris had more chemistry with her brother Wally than with her brother Barry.

 

[Pendas]

The problem is they kept trying to recreate Season 1.

 

[Fuzzy]

I watched about 60 seconds, someone came into a bar at super speed and robbed everyone. Barry stood there looking confused and I noped out.

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I was going to post the scene where a normal speed person runs around the corner and Barry loses them but I got tired of looking for it.

 

[jwk94]

didn't kill off barry and have wally take up the mantle.

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Wally's actor didn't want to stay, so they couldn't go that route. That probably would've helped the show a ton.

 

[The Unsent]

The problem is they kept trying to recreate Season 1.

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Yeah that's how I think the decline happened. They tried that with series 2 and 3, I watched some of series 4, the big villain was no longer a speedster, he tries to turn everyone dumb 'the enlightenment' literally his plan is to turn everyone stupid, so he can educate them. Yeah the show was just dumb at that point..

 

[Luigi87]

I was going to post the scene where a normal speed person runs around the corner and Barry loses them but I got tired of looking for it.

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I mean that's basically every episode.

I also don't get how Iris became the leader of Team Flash.

 

[Nakenorm]

First his name wasn't Wally West, that was the first thing they did wrong

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Preach

 

[Divvy]

Terrible writing, especially for the women characters. I stopped watching in season three and I don't think they had even passed the Beshdel test by then.

 

[deadman322]

Wally's actor didn't want to stay, so they couldn't go that route. That probably would've helped the show a ton.

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unlikely they ever planned to go down that route, given how they had linda park being a barry love interest and hunter zolomon a barry villain.

 

[niaobx]

One thing that I hated about it and is not talked about more often is how the doppelgangers shit was so overdone and annoying because Barry would always act like these are the same people that he's known for years. These are total randos with familiar faces, leave them alone Barry jeez

 

[Violence Jack]

Villain of the week syndrome with really uninteresting, corny-ass villains
Barry is a dumbass
Pregnancy giving mind-reading powers
Extremely formulaic and cliched

Honestly, the more I got into the insanity of Legends of Tomorrow, the worse Flash began to look and then I dropped it.

 

[Deleted member 21431]

I gave up watching cos Barry was so stupid and kept making silly decisions. It became infuriating to watch.

 

[jelly]

First season was amazing from what I recall but maybe it hasn't aged well.

What is with recent intro, it's like a warning, this show is total shit, stop watching.

CW have it in them, see Superman and Lois but I'm done with the Flash, watch an episode here and there to see what's up and hoping it gets a finale ASAP.

 

[Dragoon]

To me the big issue is writing and how long it is. There isn't enough worthwhile content to do 22 episode in a single season. At best, maybe 12. So you generally got the same storylines being recycled, Barry does some bullshit mistake he himself has to fix, consistently needs anime pep talks every single episode, and the enemies just weren't as good as the guy in season 1. Granted I only watched up until either season 3 or 4, I can't remember so don't know what happens after.

It's a 6/10 show that does the job I guess.

 

[MrZaha]

One thing that I hated about it and is not talked about more often is how the doppelgangers shit was so overdone and annoying because Barry would always act like these are the same people that he's known for years. These are total randos with familiar faces, leave them alone Barry jeez

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Yes i feel you on this all those times peope were giving alternate wells shit. Its like hes not even an alternate reality version of reverse flash, reverse flash just killed him and took his place so stop giving him attitude.

 

[Spaggy]

We only watched up until about a quarter of S5 (the one with Nora), but it was annoying how at the beginning of every season there was some interpersonal team drama that they'd have to overcome. It always felt like that took up too much time and just got old. Like every season felt so slow to get going.

 

[Deleted member 32822]

Power creep and time travel happened way too quickly.

 

[est1992]

I haven't watched the show since season 3, but did they ever get into the different versions of the speed force? I remember in the more recent comics, some speed force users can have super strength and other abilities. Did they tap into that?