PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
118,975
How is it that we have all these Musou spinoffs - two Zeldas, two Fire Emblems, two Dragon Quests, a Persona one, MULTIPLE anime variants...and yet no Final Fantasy Musou? Make this make sense to me, Square Enix/Tecmo Koei.

Think about it, y'all. You could have a selection of characters from each game in the franchise (and it would need to be a selection, not JUST the protagonists, to cut back on Same Weapon Syndrome) from FF1 all the way up to FFXVI. You can have legions of FF monsters, crossover boss encounters, a sidequestline featuring Gilgamesh sneaking through maps to get characters' ultimate weapons and run off with them before you can grab them, chocobos in place of horses for mounted traversal, etc.

I can even picture a full moveset for Clive in my head with like three minutes of actual effort. It wouldn't even be hard to come up with a lot of them, considering a ton of FF heroes and villains already have character models from Dissidia NT that they can use as a jumping-off point.

There is so much fertile ground for a Final Fantasy musou game and it is absolutely shocking to me that it feels like Square would rather do literally anything else than commission one from Tecmo Koei.

What do you think, folks? If an FF musou was made, would you grab it? Which character outside of the main heroes and villains would you be most excited to see playable in this type of game?
 

StreamedHams

Member
Nov 21, 2017
4,361
As someone who loves a good musou, I totally agree. SE is leaving a pile of cash on the table. The Dissidia games aren't enough.i loved Hyrule Warriors, it's soooo good. HW2…ehh…

It can be done and it should be done, but with SE's shift to bigger safer titles, I feel like this o e is on the edge.
 

Vito

One Winged Slayer - Formerly Undead Fantasy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,556
I KNOW RIGHT?

It would be incredible to fight hordes of enemies as Sephiroth.
 
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PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
118,975
As someone who loves a good musou, I totally agree. SE is leaving a pile of cash on the table. The Dissidia games aren't enough.i loved Hyrule Warriors, it's soooo good. HW2…ehh…

It can be done and it should be done, but with SE's shift to bigger safer titles, I feel like this o e is on the edge.

You'd think that a Final Fantasy Musou (provided it launches on all platforms including Nintendo and PC day one) would be the definition of a safe project.

Yes but only if you get to play as villains too, of course

Absolutely. There'd be no point if there's no roster of villains. Teleporting around as Ardyn trolling people would be a joy.
 

Shiki

Member
Nov 30, 2017
528
Final Fantasy Warriors or Smash Warriors not existing yet just boggles the mind.

I'm sure a FF one will happen one day, it's just too perfect. Give it the Hyrule Warriors treatment of being shock full on content and unlocks and it's a winner.
 
Apr 5, 2022
1,569
Would laugh if we end up getting a Star Wars Musou seeing as they did other stuff like Warriors of Troy (Greece related) or Arsian: Warriors of Legend before we even get a Dissidia/Final Fantasy Musou. it really fits especially since these two companies collabed before, I'm still hoping we get one!
 
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PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
118,975
FF 16 felt like musou enough with its hack n slash combat

The thing about Musou that makes it fun is having a variety of characters with their own completely distinct weapons and movesets to choose from. XVI unfortunately doesn't even come close there.

The Berserk Musou also had kind of the same problem where you were stuck playing as Guts for a huge portion of the story mode and could only really freely pick characters in Free Mode runs. Oof.
 

Atom

Member
Jul 25, 2021
12,134
I'd rather they do a Duodecim reunion before trying something new with Dissidia tbh.

The fact they had the chance to have Team Ninja make an FF fighting game and NT is what came out...

Crimes were committed that day.

Anyway off the top of my head for the hypothetical

FF1: Jack/Garland
FF2: Leon/Minwu
FF3: The dude that's casting the spell in the crystal tower, name escapes me.
FF4: Rosa, the old man guy (Fusoya?)
FF5: I have not played enough but Gligamesh feels obvious.
FF6: Cyan as a samurai, Phantom Train
FF7: Mr. Dolphin, Vincent a la Dirge of Cerberus, Rufus + Darkstar as one character.
FF8: Laguna, Edea
FF9: Quina, Garland.
FF10/10-2: The guy in 10-2 with the awful character design. Brother.
FF12: Ashe and Fran
FF13: Fang and Vanille as one character. Noel & Caius, give the latter a Bahamut transformation.
FF15: Regis, Cindy, Aranea and Luna. Fuck it put the cancelled FFXV DLC abbreviated in the game.
FF16: Jill, Dion, Cid, Joshua.

Bonus: Spinoffs

Darklord from FF My Life as a Darklord
Chocobo and Shirma from Mystery Dungeon
Layle from that Wii Crystal Chronicles game with the poolside swimsuit butt battle minigame.
Sherlotta from FFCC Echoes of Time
Kurasame and weird military Cid from Type 0
Cid and Ramza from Tactics
 
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Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,323
Musou genre sucks. Its probably the most repetitive out there even with "variety" of characters. I'd only be interested if they heavily customize it like Persona 5 strikers and give it an actual interesting story but I'd prefer a traditional Dissidia (not 3v3) sequel.
 

Ryuman

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,659
From Ichiro Hazama, Producer of the Dissidia series himself:
Finaland: After Dissidia Arcade, NT and Opera Omnia, what are the next steps for the Dissidia series? Could we imagine a Dissidia Warriors Musou, since you are already working with Koei Tecmo, maybe for the 40th anniversary of the saga?

Hazama
: (laughs out loud) Wait, really? Eh ah hm (trying to find his words), I'm not actually that keen on the Musou style game. This is my personal take on it, I'm not saying they are bad games, it would be quite difficult to make. I like the original, the very early Dynasty Warriors, I played them and they were quite enjoyable. For a while they seem very similar, you get the same characters, doing roughly the same things, it starts to get a bit dull. What we need to do with FINAL FANTASY, we probably have to make it much more focused on the characters, making all of them distinctive and unique, really play on that side of it. That might not be that easy. But thinking about the team that made Stranger of Paradise: Final Fantasy Origin, that's a different team that makes the Dynasty Warriors, Omega Force. There's definitely a possibility of doing something like that if there is a proposal internally, if people want to do something like that it might happen.

Source: https://www.finaland.com/?rub=site&page=news&id=6727

So, that might explain why lol. But he doesn't say no when asked! I hope it will happen one day.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,412
FF Warriors is one of the easiest collab layups that people have asked about and it's even funnier that when SE did partner up with KT it was for Team Ninja; like bro Omega Force is down the hall. Looking at the old Famitsu poll (from about 8 years ago) we did eventually get near half of the list, they cleared the top 3 most requested and FF made top 5 so you never know.

EDIT: Forgot about DQ Heroes, but they're more like P5 Strikers.

1. Touken Ranbu
(Comment from developer: We'd really like to play that so we want to consider towards realization, but right now we're focusing on PC and Smartphone versions)
2. Type Moon (Fate/stay night series & more)
(Comment from Takeuchi: I'd like to see a game where Saber sweeps an army of seaweeds filling up the screen)
3. Fire Emblem
(no comment from nintendo)
4. Neo Romance
(Comment from Koei staff: How about if we seriously start proposal planning then)
5. Final Fantasy
(Comment from producer Kitase: The Forgotten Capital quest could be very exciting here)
6. Tales Of
(Comment from developer: Thank you, but we don't have any plans for now)
7. Atelier
(Comment from Gust staff: If we include harvesting and mixing features it might be more like an RPG)
8. Kantai Collection
(no comment from developer)
9. Shin Megami Tensei
(Comment from producer Yamai: I'm waiting for the contact anytime)
10. Persona
(Comment from PR staff: If it gets realized sometime it'll be interesting)
 
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DarthKamen

Keeper of the White Materia
Member
Jun 22, 2023
1,583
I want a game where I can actually play as the FFI Warrior of Light. So if this would get me that, I'd be all for it...Jack in the armor, and NT don't cut it.

Though I'm not sure who I'd pick besides protagonists/main villains.
 

Renteka-Bond

Chicken Chaser
Member
Dec 28, 2017
4,469
Clearwater, Florida
While I'd totally play it, I do think the time for Dissidia Musou may have already passed, at least if SW5 or DW9 is the basis, haha. Something akin to Stranger or the character swapping style of Mana / PGR/Etc would be more up my alley these days, just don't limit their movesets to what we're locked to in Mobile games.
 

SketchDog

Member
Nov 25, 2021
2,989
Toronto
Square ain't making games like this anymore.
^
When I think square enix 2.0 or whatever we want to call this transition they made, I imagine games like this would be first on the chopping block. And many other things too. I'm actually really curious to see what their next year or so of announcements/game reveals look like to see what exactly they're planning and pivoting into.
 
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PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
118,975
^
When I think square enix 2.0 or whatever we want to call this transition they made, I imagine games like this would be first on the chopping block. And many other things too. I'm actually really curious to see what their next year or so of announcements/game reveals look like to see what exactly they're planning and pivoting into.

I don't actually think it would be. This is the kind of project that has an easy sales pitch, vs. something like Valkyrie Elysium that basically came out by sheer luck.

Square isn't making "no non-AAA games", they're just cutting back massively on the kinds of risky projects that used to get greenlit simply because a producer at Square had too much clout.

I want a game where I can actually play as the FFI Warrior of Light. So if this would get me that, I'd be all for it...Jack in the armor, and NT don't cut it.

Though I'm not sure who I'd pick besides protagonists/main villains.

Here's the roster I would start with, then break it out further:

FF1: WoL/Jack/Garland
FF2: Firion/Leon/Emperor
FF3: Onion Knight/Cloud of Darkness (do the Onion Knights as a group of characters with different faces/voices/genders, like AC Villager in Smash)
FF4: Cecil/Kain/Golbez/Rydia
FF5: Bartz (and Boco)/Faris/Gilgamesh/Exdeath
FF6: Terra/Celes/Locke/Sabin/Cyan/Kefka
FF7: Cloud/Tifa/Aeris/Vincent/Sephiroth/Rufus
FF8: Squall/Rinoa/Ultimecia
FF9: Zidane/Garnet/Vivi/Beatrix/Steiner/Kuja
FF10: Tidus/Yuna/Jecht/Seymour (Auron as DLC)
FF11: idk i guess use prishe and shantooters whatever
FF12: Vaan/Ashe/Balthier/Gabranth (with Basch as alt)
FF13: Lightning/Snow/Caius/Noel/Serah
FF14: too hard to pick
FF15: Noctis/Ignis/Ardyn/Aranea
FF16: Clive/Jill/Dion/Hugo
Tactics: Ramza/Delita/Agrias/Orlandeau

And then idk throw in Benjamin from Mystic Quest and Ace from Type-0 or something.
 

y2kyle89

Member
Mar 16, 2018
9,730
Mass
Here's the roster I would start with, then break it out further:

FF1: WoL/Jack/Garland
FF2: Firion/Leon/Emperor
FF3: Onion Knight/Cloud of Darkness (do the Onion Knights as a group of characters with different faces/voices/genders, like AC Villager in Smash)
FF4: Cecil/Kain/Golbez/Rydia
FF5: Bartz (and Boco)/Faris/Gilgamesh/Exdeath
FF6: Terra/Celes/Locke/Sabin/Cyan/Kefka
FF7: Cloud/Tifa/Aeris/Vincent/Sephiroth/Rufus
FF8: Squall/Rinoa/Ultimecia
FF9: Zidane/Garnet/Vivi/Beatrix/Steiner/Kuja
FF10: Tidus/Yuna/Jecht/Seymour (Auron as DLC)
FF11: idk i guess use prishe and shantooters whatever
FF12: Vaan/Ashe/Balthier/Gabranth (with Basch as alt)
FF13: Lightning/Snow/Caius/Noel/Serah
FF14: too hard to pick
FF15: Noctis/Ignis/Ardyn/Aranea
FF16: Clive/Jill/Dion/Hugo
Tactics: Ramza/Delita/Agrias/Orlandeau
I approve of this FF9 Favoritism

Edit: err, I miss counted... but I still approve
 

DarthKamen

Keeper of the White Materia
Member
Jun 22, 2023
1,583
FF1: WoL/Jack/Garland
FF2: Firion/Leon/Emperor
FF3: Onion Knight/Cloud of Darkness (do the Onion Knights as a group of characters with different faces/voices/genders, like AC Villager in Smash)
FF4: Cecil/Kain/Golbez/Rydia
FF5: Bartz (and Boco)/Faris/Gilgamesh/Exdeath
FF6: Terra/Celes/Locke/Sabin/Cyan/Kefka
FF7: Cloud/Tifa/Aeris/Vincent/Sephiroth/Rufus
FF8: Squall/Rinoa/Ultimecia
FF9: Zidane/Garnet/Vivi/Beatrix/Steiner/Kuja
FF10: Tidus/Yuna/Jecht/Seymour (Auron as DLC)
FF11: idk i guess use prishe and shantooters whatever
FF12: Vaan/Ashe/Balthier/Gabranth (with Basch as alt)
FF13: Lightning/Snow/Caius/Noel/Serah
FF14: too hard to pick
FF15: Noctis/Ignis/Ardyn/Aranea
FF16: Clive/Jill/Dion/Hugo
Tactics: Ramza/Delita/Agrias/Orlandeau

And then idk throw in Benjamin from Mystic Quest and Ace from Type-0 or something.
Not super familiar with the genre, is this amount of characters common?

I own P5 Strikers but have never gotten around to playing it.
 
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PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
118,975
Not super familiar with the genre, is this amount of characters common?

I own P5 Strikers but have never gotten around to playing it.

Yes and no. The DW and SW games regularly have over 40 playable characters. Warriors Orochi 3 Ultimate (an insane crossover game featuring characters from DW, SW and a bunch of guest characters from other franchises like Ninja Gaiden and Soul Calibur) has 145.

The standalone spinoff Musou games TEND to have smaller rosters than DW/SW do, due to those classic Musou franchises building up to their absurd character counts over a decade+. But I think Final Fantasy justifies a larger roster than something like Persona 5, which already has a very tiny core cast to begin with.
 

Razorrin

Member
Nov 7, 2017
5,238
the HELP Menu.
I don't actually think it would be. This is the kind of project that has an easy sales pitch, vs. something like Valkyrie Elysium that basically came out by sheer luck.

Square isn't making "no non-AAA games", they're just cutting back massively on the kinds of risky projects that used to get greenlit simply because a producer at Square had too much clout.



Here's the roster I would start with, then break it out further:

FF1: WoL/Jack/Garland
FF2: Firion/Leon/Emperor
FF3: Onion Knight/Cloud of Darkness (do the Onion Knights as a group of characters with different faces/voices/genders, like AC Villager in Smash)
FF4: Cecil/Kain/Golbez/Rydia
FF5: Bartz (and Boco)/Faris/Gilgamesh/Exdeath
FF6: Terra/Celes/Locke/Sabin/Cyan/Kefka
FF7: Cloud/Tifa/Aeris/Vincent/Sephiroth/Rufus
FF8: Squall/Rinoa/Ultimecia
FF9: Zidane/Garnet/Vivi/Beatrix/Steiner/Kuja
FF10: Tidus/Yuna/Jecht/Seymour (Auron as DLC)
FF11: idk i guess use prishe and shantooters whatever
FF12: Vaan/Ashe/Balthier/Gabranth (with Basch as alt)
FF13: Lightning/Snow/Caius/Noel/Serah
FF14: too hard to pick
FF15: Noctis/Ignis/Ardyn/Aranea
FF16: Clive/Jill/Dion/Hugo
Tactics: Ramza/Delita/Agrias/Orlandeau

And then idk throw in Benjamin from Mystic Quest and Ace from Type-0 or something.
Honestly, this is a lovely list! I could absolutely see movesets for almost everyone here, barring the few who's game I hadn't played yet.

Makes me think a fun thread could be made from folks coming up with Dissidia moveset ideas, like broad stuff considering the conceptual baselines a lot of them already base themselves on.

Like how Golbez's moveset is about combining not just magic and physical moves together, but also bridging short and medium range together too. You could have Xande (FF3) revolve around knocking enemies to the ground to rough them up with Quake style spells, focusing his Hp attacks on wide ground moves and aerial brave attacks as quick or tricky Aero spells.

Or, similar to how Vaan's deal is utilizing different weapons in his brave attacks (upgraded in EX Mode) and concurrences (from FFXII's Myst Charges) as his Hp attacks, Noctis could be built to have him using the Royal Arms in different ways for his brave moves, but have one special Hp attack for Warpstrike that alters it's timing and properties based on which Royal Arm he has out, with EX mode randomizing them and allowing him to cancel out of Warpstrike to perform mixups or baiting responses.

Lots of opportunities for fun game design discussion there!
 

Saito Hikari

Member
Jul 3, 2021
2,989
I don't actually think it would be. This is the kind of project that has an easy sales pitch, vs. something like Valkyrie Elysium that basically came out by sheer luck.

Square isn't making "no non-AAA games", they're just cutting back massively on the kinds of risky projects that used to get greenlit simply because a producer at Square had too much clout.



Here's the roster I would start with, then break it out further:

FF1: WoL/Jack/Garland
FF2: Firion/Leon/Emperor
FF3: Onion Knight/Cloud of Darkness (do the Onion Knights as a group of characters with different faces/voices/genders, like AC Villager in Smash)
FF4: Cecil/Kain/Golbez/Rydia
FF5: Bartz (and Boco)/Faris/Gilgamesh/Exdeath
FF6: Terra/Celes/Locke/Sabin/Cyan/Kefka
FF7: Cloud/Tifa/Aeris/Vincent/Sephiroth/Rufus
FF8: Squall/Rinoa/Ultimecia
FF9: Zidane/Garnet/Vivi/Beatrix/Steiner/Kuja
FF10: Tidus/Yuna/Jecht/Seymour (Auron as DLC)
FF11: idk i guess use prishe and shantooters whatever
FF12: Vaan/Ashe/Balthier/Gabranth (with Basch as alt)
FF13: Lightning/Snow/Caius/Noel/Serah
FF14: too hard to pick
FF15: Noctis/Ignis/Ardyn/Aranea
FF16: Clive/Jill/Dion/Hugo
Tactics: Ramza/Delita/Agrias/Orlandeau

And then idk throw in Benjamin from Mystic Quest and Ace from Type-0 or something.
As far as FF16 goes, I think Cid deserves a spot way more than Hugo does.

FF14 only really needs Zenos. Can't think of anyone among the main cast that would actually be interesting to use in a Muosu type game. Maybe Y'shtola, and maybe FF14 WoL if they actually make them an archer, since there aren't any bow wielders in your roster and they canonically started out as an archer.
 
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PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
118,975
As far as FF16 goes, I think Cid deserves a spot way more than Hugo does.

FF14 only really needs Zenos. Can't think of anyone among the main cast that would actually be interesting to use in a Muosu type game. Maybe Y'shtola, and maybe FF14 WoL if they actually make them an archer, since there aren't any bow wielders in your roster and they canonically started out as an archer.

I would stick Estinien in there probably if only because I can always use more Dragoons.

And for FF16, the reason I included Hugo is just that I want more villain (and non-sword) representation. Switch him out for Barnabas instead as a Lu Bu-style "oh crap the youth pastor is gonna instant kill me" crisis boss, maybe?

Honestly, this is a lovely list! I could absolutely see movesets for almost everyone here, barring the few who's game I hadn't played yet.

Makes me think a fun thread could be made from folks coming up with Dissidia moveset ideas, like broad stuff considering the conceptual baselines a lot of them already base themselves on.

Like how Golbez's moveset is about combining not just magic and physical moves together, but also bridging short and medium range together too. You could have Xande (FF3) revolve around knocking enemies to the ground to rough them up with Quake style spells, focusing his Hp attacks on wide ground moves and aerial brave attacks as quick or tricky Aero spells.

Or, similar to how Vaan's deal is utilizing different weapons in his brave attacks (upgraded in EX Mode) and concurrences (from FFXII's Myst Charges) as his Hp attacks, Noctis could be built to have him using the Royal Arms in different ways for his brave moves, but have one special Hp attack for Warpstrike that alters it's timing and properties based on which Royal Arm he has out, with EX mode randomizing them and allowing him to cancel out of Warpstrike to perform mixups or baiting responses.

Lots of opportunities for fun game design discussion there!

I would base Noctis' neutral combos off of the original Versus XIII trailer, honestly.

SVaKK6.gif


His main combo string is him switching rapidly between the various Royal Arm weapon types, similar to how he did in one of the early demos, and his charge attacks are each a special move with one of them.
 

Aiqops

Member
Aug 3, 2021
14,628
Absolutely there should be a FF Musou. It is especially strange, since Square let them make 2 Dragon Quest ones.
 

DontHateTheBacon

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,075
As someone who loves a good musou, I totally agree. SE is leaving a pile of cash on the table. The Dissidia games aren't enough.i loved Hyrule Warriors, it's soooo good. HW2…ehh…

It can be done and it should be done, but with SE's shift to bigger safer titles, I feel like this o e is on the edge.
How big is this pile of cash?
 

i-Jest

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,047
Between NT not doing well, and the shuttering of Opera Omnia, I think Square is gonna give the Dissidia name a rest for a while.

We'll see though.
 

DontHateTheBacon

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,075
Considering how little money Octopath 2 seemingly made, yeah. Probably a lot more.

A fully multiplatform FF Musou with no exclusivity nonsense, launching day one on Nintendo, PS and PC would absolutely attract attention.
Yeah you're probably right. I feel like these games just don't sell very well, and this would be ripe for the "Square Enix disappointment" headline picking. But it probably would sell more than an Octopath 3…