Twilight Princess is the only Zelda game I've never felt the urge to revisit. I did not enjoy my time in that washed out world.
Which major 3D Zelda has the worst story/writing?
- Thread starter Slatsunus
- Start date
Has to be TOTK, by far. Other entries like OOT or BOTW have a simpler story on paper, but they deliver what they set out to do effectively.
TOTK on the other hand fumbles this hard. From trying to tell a linear story but re-using the memory system, to essentially copy/pasting the same exposition cutscene 4 times, to not really caring about explaining some of the most vital plot points, to finally barely acknowledging BOTW's events.
TOTK on the other hand fumbles this hard. From trying to tell a linear story but re-using the memory system, to essentially copy/pasting the same exposition cutscene 4 times, to not really caring about explaining some of the most vital plot points, to finally barely acknowledging BOTW's events.
I'm aware - i agree with you it's not good, but there are many reasons why that could have been like that, i struggle to blame it on "bad" writing (ie: you can't give them characterization or uniqueness if the game developers only have limited scope for those scenes). That is very clearly a choice/compromise that was made
I think TotK is the only game I played within the last 5 years in which I actually cringed during voiced dialogue. Even already during the intro with Zelda and Link in the cave. I don't want to blame the VAs here cause it could be a writing/directing issue, but the end product is terrible.
It's so weird that Nintendo delivered some of the most amazing trailers for BotW and TotK, the written dialogue with NPCs can be so charming, but once they use voiced lines and try to tell a serious story, they only produce the worst schlock imaginable.
But since I haven't even finished TotK, I voted BotW.
It's so weird that Nintendo delivered some of the most amazing trailers for BotW and TotK, the written dialogue with NPCs can be so charming, but once they use voiced lines and try to tell a serious story, they only produce the worst schlock imaginable.
But since I haven't even finished TotK, I voted BotW.
As a huge Zelda nerd.... the stories have never really shock and awed me more than select character moments.
To start the thread with "Zelda stories/writing typically arent the main reason people play them" would honestly be surprising to me compared to...well, the sense of adventure and all that whatnot.
When most of the games are the "one with the Ganondorf", I find it hard to hitch myself to the plot, but it's the character stuff that happens in spades.
To start the thread with "Zelda stories/writing typically arent the main reason people play them" would honestly be surprising to me compared to...well, the sense of adventure and all that whatnot.
When most of the games are the "one with the Ganondorf", I find it hard to hitch myself to the plot, but it's the character stuff that happens in spades.
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aaaaaAAAGHH
I feel no shame in skipping those "iN tHe ImPrIsOnInG wAr" cutscenes after the second dungeon after realising that every single one takes like five minutes to tell you the same thing every time
For a game that otherwise really respects the player's intelligence and ingenuity, the story treats you like a total idiot most of the time for all the stuff it endlessly repeats to you
edit: also seems like there's a lot of people saying it had to be that way because of how much freedom the game gives you - the game could literally just keep a check of if you've finished a dungeon already and then not show the entire imprisoning war cutscene again if you have (or ask you if you need a reminder!)
Or, later on, not ask you to go and find the master sword if you've clearly already got it equipped and have done for the past 30 hours - that'd be like three text boxes worth of non-voiced dialogue which would need to be changed to compensate for it
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Skyward Sword was bad in many ways, but Fi made it actively unplayable.
It would be an almost immeasurably better experience if every sentence of Fi's writing was simply excised from the game.
BotW and TotK don't have good writing / stories, but they are at least not actively harmful to the experience.
It would be an almost immeasurably better experience if every sentence of Fi's writing was simply excised from the game.
BotW and TotK don't have good writing / stories, but they are at least not actively harmful to the experience.
It's BOTW and it's not even close imo, the amount of "Story" in it is laughable at times and even what's there isn't really compelling at all imo, Age of Calamity did heavy lifting to make me like most of these characters tbh
Tears of the Kingdom for me. The dialogue is worse, the plot is worse, and the PAINFULLY REPETITIVE cutscene structure inside the dungeons was driving me insane.
DEMON KING? SECRET STONE!??!?!?!
DEMON KING? SECRET STONE!??!?!?!
Haven't played totk but its botw easy. Every damn npc was so boring and flat. The storyline felt almost nonexistent. Freedom is great and all but if your story fucking sucks you aren't gonna pull me in man.
Voted for Twilight Princess which was the last 3D Zelda I've played, and considering my dislike of the new ones (great games I'm sure, just absolutely not for me) it will stay that way. Skipped Skyward Sword because I absolutely detest motion controls (besides for stuff like Wii Sports), so no clue about that one as well.
Favorite is by far Majoras Mask, the premise and all the different story lines of all the characters are so beautifully done, followed by Ocarina of Time. Even though Wind Waker might be my favorite 3D Zelda in terms of gameplay and setting, I can't remember a thing about it's story tbh.
Favorite is by far Majoras Mask, the premise and all the different story lines of all the characters are so beautifully done, followed by Ocarina of Time. Even though Wind Waker might be my favorite 3D Zelda in terms of gameplay and setting, I can't remember a thing about it's story tbh.
I mean, it's a fair complaint to be sure, but it's not like it's new to the series.
In ocarina of time, as child link, you get flashbacks and characters telling you that he's already done *appropriate bad thing for the area*, looks smug at you through a window, and then attacks hyrule castle almost entirely offscreen. The game then repeats this again with him having done *appropriate bad thing* to each area off screen while link took a nap and then Ganondorf sits on his throne entirely doing nothing during the entire adult segment while Link goes around ruining his plans.
The same is true in wind waker and twilight princess for that matter, he basically gets 1 cutscene around the middle of Wind waker where he actually attacks Link/Zelda, and even that's only because Link walked in to his room with the master sword thinking he'd be able to kill him now. His actions in Twilight princess are largely through flashbacks as well.
Does WW have anything else besides Ganon's "I hate sand" speech? Everyone quotes that one, but that's all I can recall.
I think I'd say Wind Waker in all honesty. It's one of those games where the interesting events happened outside of the game.
Yeah the NPCs were terrible, I honestly can't remember most of them, both story-wise and character design-wise. Wish we could go back to fully unique NPCs instead of ones made with an in-engine character creator but I doubt we'll ever get those again without scaling back on the map size so as to not need so many filler NPCs for all that space (which I also wish could happen but we opened pandora's box already so that ain't happening).
I was also personally way more invested in Zelda stories before we got voice acting, now it just makes everything feel bland to me since I considered the lack of voices part of the storytelling style and now it's just cringe. Doesn't help that BotW's story is so bad to begin with so the voices were just rubbing salt on the wound.
BotW is the best one because it's just flavor and doesn't monopolize your time or mess with the gameplay. That how games should be. It's my perfect gaming story actually lol.
I voted Skyward Sword as least good, even though I like the game, because it's heavy handed, unsubtle, and kind of cringey teen drama junk that I have no patience for. The gameplay suffers because it forces you to hit certain story beats too.
Twilight Princess is my number 2 because I think it is the most derivative and boring Zelda game all around imo. I don't remember most of the exact pacing of the story beats and how much it ties you up in cutscenes etc as you go though.
I voted Skyward Sword as least good, even though I like the game, because it's heavy handed, unsubtle, and kind of cringey teen drama junk that I have no patience for. The gameplay suffers because it forces you to hit certain story beats too.
Twilight Princess is my number 2 because I think it is the most derivative and boring Zelda game all around imo. I don't remember most of the exact pacing of the story beats and how much it ties you up in cutscenes etc as you go though.
Poll results says it all. Less is more with this series. The more writing, the exponentially faster it grates and you realize why the older entries were much better off feeling more like fairy tales than anime.
Honestly I'd go with TP. It isn't without merit, Midna was cool and so was Zant However most of the game story to me felt like the people who made it only did so because fans demanded it and not because they wanted to make it. The dialog at times felt straight fanfiction and very derivative. The most interesting elements were kind of sidelined, shoehorning Ganondorf felt so poorly done and basically ruined the most interesting new villain the series has seen for sometime as well. Zelda games usually don't have great stories, but they are at least usually engrossing, and I felt very little of that in TP.
I think SS and BOTW also have issues here, BOTW has an amazing world building but the actual execution was bad most times, and SS started really strong and then fell off as it went on. Tears is the best it's been since WW, but even that is still poorly stitched together. I'll never understand why they can't just make the story sequences play out in order regardless of when you find them.
Wind Waker is still the last one I was engrossed with story wise, not perfect but certainly interesting.
I think SS and BOTW also have issues here, BOTW has an amazing world building but the actual execution was bad most times, and SS started really strong and then fell off as it went on. Tears is the best it's been since WW, but even that is still poorly stitched together. I'll never understand why they can't just make the story sequences play out in order regardless of when you find them.
Wind Waker is still the last one I was engrossed with story wise, not perfect but certainly interesting.
I feel like since the Gamecube the series has really struggled with narrative (as far as plot and character writing is concerned). Ironically, I feel this is where they started trying to put a bigger emphasis on that and leaning into it in their game direction.
I feel in some ways Wind Waker was one of the stronger entries as it added a bigger emphasis on plot but still kept it pretty light with simple universal themes grounding the whole experience (much like Link's Awakening and the N64 entries). It is also the first entry where I felt they tried to make the narrative more ambitious by trying to have links back to prior entries and character-based plot moments. I feel though that it is still the entry where the plot started getting in the way a bit. I think my biggest issue with the story in Wind Waker is how they handled Tetra as a character. I understand that they were trying to replicate the impact of "Sheik is Zelda" from Ocarina of Time but it just fell flat here. Especially with the weird white washing of her character and the way it completely undermined her agency by having a character who was established to be brave, smart and resourceful become damselled the moment she found out her true identiy felt really off to me, even as a kid.
Twilight Princess, I think conceptually was ambitious but it is so so messy in execution. This was definitely the entry in which the inspiration from JRPGs and Anime became most apparent as they started adding more NPCS implicated to the main plot with little arcs and tried to add more twists and shocking points to the narrative. The problem though is that they really handled this poorly and most of the side characters are really poorly defined with hardly any characterization at all. Even if I were to ask the most hardcore fans of the game to describe to me what characters like Auru, Asha or Renado are like (without using physical descripters), I feel they would be unable to do it. Likewise, major plot points that could have been bold and shocking always ended up resolving themselves in ways that undermined their initial impact (namely Zelda dying early on, only to inexplicably come back at the end of the game). I do feel Midna having an arc at all was a step-up for the writing but was still rooted way too much in anime tropes for my tastes and is a little overhyped by Zelda fans (though credit where credit is due).
Skyward Sword, I feel just told a really uninteresting story that took up way too much of the experience. I feel it was a step up in regards to characters like Groose (who actually had a satisfying arc) and the focus on Zelda and Link's relationship (which much like Midna, was pretty standard and the quality of which was blown out of proportion by the fanbase but was still better than what came before). However, the actual plot was all over the place and I think undermined the pacing of the game and is part of the reason the vibe is way off. Link's goals are constantly reactive and the reason he is never able to fully achieve them throughout the story feel completely arbitrary and out of the player's control. As a result, I know a lot of players drop off because it feels so meandering and pointless. I think giving the player a simple goal (stop ganon, stop the moon from falling, etc) works best for Zelda as the narrative strength of the game is the actions the player takes (dungeons, side quests, etc) on their way to their goal over character or plot moments (with entries like Twilight Princess succeeding in these metrics but failing through the more traditional narrative elements).
I think that because of this, Breath of the Wild was much better for me. I know this may be controversial here but I feel that Breath of the Wild's story was a step in the right direction. The focus on building out the history of the world over specific plot elements really landed for me and added to the sense of adventure and discovery. It wasn't perfect and I felt some of the revelations were a little underwhelming but it did feel like a step in the right direction.
Tears of the Kingdom however was not it. I feel in a lot of ways it may have the worst plot in the whole series and easily has the most embarrassing writing. While Twilight Princess may be messy and Skyward Sword overwritten and meandering, neither game made me cringe as much as Tears of the Kingdom. The writing and delivery was just awful and was so reliant on contrivance that it did honestly impact my enjoyment of the game. Everytime I heard them talk about their secret stones, I couldn't help but laugh. Honestly, while Breath of the Wild already leaned in this direction, I feel like the tone leaned way too modern anime for my tastes in writing, voice direction, etc - just a lot of people yapping about nonsense and power levels with very little subtlety. Likewise, the fact that the structure of the main adventure so closely resembled that of BOTW, undermined the narrative as gameplay angle slightly. With that said, it has a lot of great moments (namely the master sword, adventures to the dungeons, end fight and post-game scene with Zelda) but they feel kind of like empty spectacle to me. So for me, I think I would go Tears of the Kingdom though Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess are pretty close contenders.
I feel in some ways Wind Waker was one of the stronger entries as it added a bigger emphasis on plot but still kept it pretty light with simple universal themes grounding the whole experience (much like Link's Awakening and the N64 entries). It is also the first entry where I felt they tried to make the narrative more ambitious by trying to have links back to prior entries and character-based plot moments. I feel though that it is still the entry where the plot started getting in the way a bit. I think my biggest issue with the story in Wind Waker is how they handled Tetra as a character. I understand that they were trying to replicate the impact of "Sheik is Zelda" from Ocarina of Time but it just fell flat here. Especially with the weird white washing of her character and the way it completely undermined her agency by having a character who was established to be brave, smart and resourceful become damselled the moment she found out her true identiy felt really off to me, even as a kid.
Twilight Princess, I think conceptually was ambitious but it is so so messy in execution. This was definitely the entry in which the inspiration from JRPGs and Anime became most apparent as they started adding more NPCS implicated to the main plot with little arcs and tried to add more twists and shocking points to the narrative. The problem though is that they really handled this poorly and most of the side characters are really poorly defined with hardly any characterization at all. Even if I were to ask the most hardcore fans of the game to describe to me what characters like Auru, Asha or Renado are like (without using physical descripters), I feel they would be unable to do it. Likewise, major plot points that could have been bold and shocking always ended up resolving themselves in ways that undermined their initial impact (namely Zelda dying early on, only to inexplicably come back at the end of the game). I do feel Midna having an arc at all was a step-up for the writing but was still rooted way too much in anime tropes for my tastes and is a little overhyped by Zelda fans (though credit where credit is due).
Skyward Sword, I feel just told a really uninteresting story that took up way too much of the experience. I feel it was a step up in regards to characters like Groose (who actually had a satisfying arc) and the focus on Zelda and Link's relationship (which much like Midna, was pretty standard and the quality of which was blown out of proportion by the fanbase but was still better than what came before). However, the actual plot was all over the place and I think undermined the pacing of the game and is part of the reason the vibe is way off. Link's goals are constantly reactive and the reason he is never able to fully achieve them throughout the story feel completely arbitrary and out of the player's control. As a result, I know a lot of players drop off because it feels so meandering and pointless. I think giving the player a simple goal (stop ganon, stop the moon from falling, etc) works best for Zelda as the narrative strength of the game is the actions the player takes (dungeons, side quests, etc) on their way to their goal over character or plot moments (with entries like Twilight Princess succeeding in these metrics but failing through the more traditional narrative elements).
I think that because of this, Breath of the Wild was much better for me. I know this may be controversial here but I feel that Breath of the Wild's story was a step in the right direction. The focus on building out the history of the world over specific plot elements really landed for me and added to the sense of adventure and discovery. It wasn't perfect and I felt some of the revelations were a little underwhelming but it did feel like a step in the right direction.
Tears of the Kingdom however was not it. I feel in a lot of ways it may have the worst plot in the whole series and easily has the most embarrassing writing. While Twilight Princess may be messy and Skyward Sword overwritten and meandering, neither game made me cringe as much as Tears of the Kingdom. The writing and delivery was just awful and was so reliant on contrivance that it did honestly impact my enjoyment of the game. Everytime I heard them talk about their secret stones, I couldn't help but laugh. Honestly, while Breath of the Wild already leaned in this direction, I feel like the tone leaned way too modern anime for my tastes in writing, voice direction, etc - just a lot of people yapping about nonsense and power levels with very little subtlety. Likewise, the fact that the structure of the main adventure so closely resembled that of BOTW, undermined the narrative as gameplay angle slightly. With that said, it has a lot of great moments (namely the master sword, adventures to the dungeons, end fight and post-game scene with Zelda) but they feel kind of like empty spectacle to me. So for me, I think I would go Tears of the Kingdom though Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess are pretty close contenders.
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I do not quite unterstand how people can vote Majora's Mask on this. That must be trolling.
I voted BotW, though BotW and TotK both have similarly terrible stories. It is not a criterion that is important to my reception of a game, but BotW and TotK's stories are really uninteresting and on top of that, not very well presented or structured.
I voted BotW, though BotW and TotK both have similarly terrible stories. It is not a criterion that is important to my reception of a game, but BotW and TotK's stories are really uninteresting and on top of that, not very well presented or structured.
Haven't played TotK so my vote goes for BotW.
How the fuck did some people seriously vote Majora's Mask though, that's just flat out wrong.
How the fuck did some people seriously vote Majora's Mask though, that's just flat out wrong.
The opening intro that recaps OoT and explains WW's setting is fantastic.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDQLQpEAP3w
I also think things like Link waving good-bye to his grandma, getting the Master Sword, or the comedic moments like Link being launched into the Forsaken Fortress are all well done and memorable.
It's TOTK. The fact that everything interesting happened in the past, those flashbacks can be played in any order making certain story beats out of order, and the fact that fake Zelda can be ID'd as fake Zelda after the first encounter but then you have to entertain the idea that it's real Zelda for several more hours made the story an absolute waste of time for me
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Tears because it had the worst aspects of BOTW's storytelling (memories) AND pretended like the previous game never happened despite being a direct sequel
I'm surprised people are voting for Twilight Princess. I really like the story in that game. Pacing can be a little funky, I guess.
I'm surprised people are voting for Twilight Princess. I really like the story in that game. Pacing can be a little funky, I guess.
Out of the current top 3 on the poll, not skyward sword. That had strong characterization for zelda, a very fun villain, and an amazing character arc for groose.
BotW wasn't super interesting, but it was limited by extreme nonlinearity and I enjoyed zelda's character development in the memories.
TotK had something that really bothered me: basically everyone in the world sucks your dick. There's very few meaningfully flawed or mean individuals, everyone's so goddamn friendly. The lack of conflict makes the writing pretty boring. It's rather like Genshin Impact in that regard, except thankfully characters usually only have a few text boxes in TotK instead of the game shoving moby dick quantities of text down your throat.
BotW wasn't super interesting, but it was limited by extreme nonlinearity and I enjoyed zelda's character development in the memories.
TotK had something that really bothered me: basically everyone in the world sucks your dick. There's very few meaningfully flawed or mean individuals, everyone's so goddamn friendly. The lack of conflict makes the writing pretty boring. It's rather like Genshin Impact in that regard, except thankfully characters usually only have a few text boxes in TotK instead of the game shoving moby dick quantities of text down your throat.
Ocarina of Time because it ruined the rest of the series. Zelda games were - Hey Listen! - better when the story and writing were - Hey Listen! - low-key and not constantly shoved - Hey Listen! - in your face, and the focus was gameplay.
I only played SS and OOT, and currently me and my gf are playing ToTK. We're still getting to it but I like the characters in ToTK and the framing of the plot is interesting.
I guess I hate SS because none of its story beats felt interesting.
I guess I hate SS because none of its story beats felt interesting.
Zelda really got the short end in that game. Zant is basically Agahnim written as a cartoon villain. Ganondorf isn't much better especially after WW.
OP
OP
I don't really want time travel involved in future Zelda games. Totk jumped the shark with that, what a mess. I've never been more disappointed in a Zelda story than that.
I wasn't too happy with Botw's story, but the plot worked. It was simple, hundred year coma, go save Hyrule. But the way the story is told wasn't satisfying. The characters felt hollow, because we were just expected to care about these people we don't know, but Link can't or won't tell us how HE feels about them. Regaining memories means nothing if we don't have context of what they mean to the character. Instead, Link just stares at them like a wall.
Well, Totk has that same narrative problem, but also with a convoluted plot that disregards the entire series history, and repeats OoT's Ganondorf origin but much worse. Maybe rewrites the entire canon, who knows. Certainly not Zelda team.
It's also a shame with how they handled the Zonai imo. There was so much mystery and buildup. And then they just include a few Zonai characters, and don't really do anything with it? They could have just as easily been regular Hylian's instead imo.
I wasn't too happy with Botw's story, but the plot worked. It was simple, hundred year coma, go save Hyrule. But the way the story is told wasn't satisfying. The characters felt hollow, because we were just expected to care about these people we don't know, but Link can't or won't tell us how HE feels about them. Regaining memories means nothing if we don't have context of what they mean to the character. Instead, Link just stares at them like a wall.
Well, Totk has that same narrative problem, but also with a convoluted plot that disregards the entire series history, and repeats OoT's Ganondorf origin but much worse. Maybe rewrites the entire canon, who knows. Certainly not Zelda team.
It's also a shame with how they handled the Zonai imo. There was so much mystery and buildup. And then they just include a few Zonai characters, and don't really do anything with it? They could have just as easily been regular Hylian's instead imo.
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