Why are government offices so incompetent ?

[Baphomet]

At least from my experience , just want to vent , every time I have an issue I need to address (mostly VA stuff) I can never get a concrete answer to anything. I ask the same question to 4 different people and get a completely different answer each time, do government employees ever communicate with each other? It's just been super frustrating.

 

[Volimar]

The VA is the worst. It's a slog to get anything done through them.

 

[Jarrod38]

Because it's the government and they don't care.

 

[julia crawford]

This is my experience with pretty much every service that's not like hyper focused on great customer experience. Private service providers are fairly often just as poor in my experience, and governments I feel are often burdened with bureaucracy and unhelpful systems which certainly does not help.

 

[CitizenVectron]

Probably depends where you live. Generally speaking in Canada the government services are pretty good. The notable exception right now is passport services, which is horrible. But Service Canada (which handles social services like employment insurance, etc) is traditionally known for good service. Sometimes there is a wait, but people are almost always helpful.

 

[Cerulean_skylark]

At least from my experience , just want to vent , every time I have an issue I need to address (mostly VA stuff) I can never get a concrete answer to anything. I ask the same question to 4 different people and get a completely different answer each time, do government employees ever communicate with each other? It's just been super frustrating.

Click to shrink...

The complicated answer is that it's an intersection of many issues.
Systemic disempowerment and obfuscation of institutions. Like an indirect "defund" campaign. Keeps recipients out of the system to lower costs.
Obviously employees aren't always experts on everything, there is some incompetence or ignorance built-in to any system.
And the system itself is often layered with hoops to jump to feed into the first point.

Honestly though, Any system designed to help anyone is in massive trouble due to successions of regressive, institution erosion specifically to keep money in the hands of the rich.

 

[Koukalaka]

Not American, but as someone that works in local government, it's usually a combo of:

1) Processes that haven't clearly been worked out, leading to buck-passing.
2) Massive levels of overwork, with huge caseloads sitting with far too people due to budget cuts (this is the big one) - especially an issue with people retiring/leaving, and their responsibilities being broken up and given to existing employees rather than re-hiring.
3) Occasionally, uncaring employees.

People always hype up number 3, but in my experience, too much work for too few people is the main one.

I do loovveeeee it though when people talk to me about public sector inefficiency before telling me the firm they work for employs three people for a job that one person does in local government.

Spoiler

/s

 

[entremet]

The US has starved the VA since Reagan. Support The Troops is bullshit.

 

[maigret]

I work for a private corporation and I deal with the same stuff on a daily basis. Wasteful bureaucracy, people who are unhelpful, inefficient processes. I think it's just general incompetency and that unfortunately scales larger with government services.

 

[Gpsych]

So I know nothing at all about the regs and laws that govern the VA. However, I'm an expert in the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) and the the rules established by various states that support their individual regions. If VA rules are anything like special ed laws, there is A LOT of grey area which requires a high level of legal expertise to navigate. Even then, multiple answers might actually be correct even if they are contradictory. Even worse, through court cases, etc, these interpretations can change very quickly. As a result, it seems like special ed personnel are incompetent, but it's really more related to the regulations.

Again, I know nothing about VA rules, but I suspect there are similar issues there.

 

[LegendofJoe]

It's bureaucracy that's the issue, and it's a big problem for corporations too.

 

[Surakian]

The VA is honestly a mess and it's not the fault of the employees but intentional mismanagement and underfunding by politicians.

 

[Dyle]

An underfunded bureaucracy naturally operates slowly. You get what you pay for

 

[Jedi2016]

I haven't been to the VA in years, I just have a regular doctor I see. Costs more, way less hassle.

 

[Sunster]

short answer? Ronald Reagan.

 

[CrunchyB]

Companies are often incompetent too.

The main difference is, companies go bankrupt if there is too much incompetence. Government offices get more funding if the job really needs to be done. If it's not important enough, they get starved instead.

I don't think there is an easy fix.

 

[PinkSpider]

It's bureaucracy that's the issue, and it's a big problem for corporations too.

Click to shrink...

Yep. We used to have to get people to raise tickets and then get challenged why it didn't get a ticket, go to a manager to assign and scope, discuss with stakeholders, plan time etc. Or ya know I'm bored and sat on my phone, I can provide you that data instead of checking ERA and Facebook in 5 minutes on things which probably won't have updated.

 

[subpar spatula]

It depends, but overall a lot of government workers have pretty good work life balances so they aren't being forced to work extra or quicker all the time. Just remember that next time, and to respect them as people living their lives.

Breathe. Relax. They are working a job most people would kill for.

 

[Tokyo_Funk]

My local council : Sends letter claiming my dog is barking. Demands that we keep it quiet or they will take action
My reply to council on their "Contact us" page : "We don't currently have a dog"
My local council : "Please contact us by email from here on, if you do not comply we will take action against you on behalf of your neighbours"
Me emailing : "Yo, I don't have a dog at the moment. Please stop threatening us over something we don't have"
My Local council : "We've sent you a form you have to fill out, you must comply. We have sent a form to the person who filed the complaint to monitor the barking"
Me emailing : "My dog has been dead for 6 months. Ball is in your court"
My Local Council " Crickets "

 

[megabyte]

Not American, but as someone that works in local government, it's usually a combo of:

1) Processes that haven't clearly been worked out, leading to buck-passing.
2) Massive levels of overwork, with huge caseloads sitting with far too people due to budget cuts (this is the big one) - especially an issue with people retiring/leaving, and their responsibilities being broken up and given to existing employees rather than re-hiring.
3) Occasionally, uncaring employees.

People always hype up number 3, but in my experience, too much work for too few people is the main one.

I do loovveeeee it though when people talk to me about public sector inefficiency before telling me the firm they work for employs three people for a job that one person does in local government.

Spoiler

/s

Click to shrink...

I am American and in government and in my experience I find it's mostly #2. So many people in local government especially are wearing multiple hats and responsible for so many things. Which yeah, leads to burnout. I love my job and mission though.

It depends, but overall a lot of government workers have pretty good work life balances so they aren't being forced to work extra or quicker all the time. Just remember that next time, and to respect them as people living their lives.

Breathe. Relax. They are working a job most people would kill for.

Click to shrink...

Appreciate the sentiment on patience, but what the hell is this "not being forced to work extra or quicker"? LOL. I've done rotations to other agencies and offices and that has not been the case ever. There are ebbs and flows in workload but my coworkers, supervisors, and I have definitely worked extra hours and under strict deadlines often.

 

[subpar spatula]

Appreciate the sentiment on patience, but what the hell is this "not being forced to work extra or quicker"? LOL. I've done rotations to other agencies and offices and that has not been the case ever. There are ebbs and flows in workload but my coworkers, supervisors, and I have definitely worked extra hours and under strict deadlines often.

Click to shrink...

I would not be shocked if the average workload outside of government is higher or much higher than government. Deadlines are everywhere but the private sector can be absolutely brutal and that is in almost every field.

 

[Drakeon]

Not American, but as someone that works in local government, it's usually a combo of:

1) Processes that haven't clearly been worked out, leading to buck-passing.
2) Massive levels of overwork, with huge caseloads sitting with far too people due to budget cuts (this is the big one) - especially an issue with people retiring/leaving, and their responsibilities being broken up and given to existing employees rather than re-hiring.
3) Occasionally, uncaring employees.

People always hype up number 3, but in my experience, too much work for too few people is the main one.

I do loovveeeee it though when people talk to me about public sector inefficiency before telling me the firm they work for employs three people for a job that one person does in local government.

Spoiler

/s

Click to shrink...

As someone who has worked for state government and local government, #2 has been especially the case since COVID, at least with my experience. Everyone is overworked, it's amazing some of the agencies aren't just shut down due to low or no staffing. I also think government can take longer to hire, which compounds the low staffing issues.

I would not be shocked if the average workload outside of government is higher or much higher than government. Deadlines are everywhere but the private sector can be absolutely brutal and that is in almost every field.

Click to shrink...

This is based on what? Isn't this counterintuitive to what everyone has been saying? When people leave government jobs, those responsibilities don't just go away...



I'd be willing to bet it's the opposite.

 

[Trey]

The scale of government means pretty much anything it does will be "slow." Especially any federal body - there's so many regulations, laws, and statutes that have to be covered that it fundamentally will be a hassle.

 

[megabyte]

I would not be shocked if the average workload outside of government is higher or much higher than government. Deadlines are everywhere but the private sector can be absolutely brutal and that is in almost every field.

Click to shrink...

Agency and office dependent. But to be fair, private sector pay is much higher as a result. Sometimes better benefits too

 

[nonoriri]

I would not be shocked if the average workload outside of government is higher or much higher than government. Deadlines are everywhere but the private sector can be absolutely brutal and that is in almost every field.

Click to shrink...

This is pretty presumptive. I've worked some pretty cushy private sector jobs that had very low demands and a government job with much higher expectations. The idea that government workers are inherently working less hard is conservative rhetoric.

 

[Deleted member 4212]

It is in the interest of people who want to shrink the government that government services be slow and difficult to use. This makes way for privatization which makes lots of money.

 

[Wilsongt]

Not even us in government knows what the hell is going in most of the time. A lot of stuff is a "need to know" basis and the rest of it is "we'll tell you how to deal with it when it actually comes up."

 

[Wilsongt]

I would not be shocked if the average workload outside of government is higher or much higher than government. Deadlines are everywhere but the private sector can be absolutely brutal and that is in almost every field.

Click to shrink...

Hi, again, government employee. Our workload is stupid as fuck in terms of how much it is, what we're required to know, and a lot of folks work overtime just to attempt to catch up, and it's not paid overtime.

 

[captmcblack]

An underfunded bureaucracy naturally operates slowly. You get what you pay for

Click to shrink...

It's this.

And the more people/the larger scale of the group that need to be served, the more difficult it becomes to have fast and high-quality customer service. I'm not mad at it - just have to charge it to the game.

 

[Fonst]

Lazy so they don't ask for answers.
Doesn't matter cause a lot of times their jobs are pretty secure so minimal effort.
If they commit to doing something, they would have to pick a side?

 

[BebopCola]

Not American, but as someone that works in local government, it's usually a combo of:

1) Processes that haven't clearly been worked out, leading to buck-passing.
2) Massive levels of overwork, with huge caseloads sitting with far too people due to budget cuts (this is the big one) - especially an issue with people retiring/leaving, and their responsibilities being broken up and given to existing employees rather than re-hiring.
3) Occasionally, uncaring employees.

People always hype up number 3, but in my experience, too much work for too few people is the main one.

I do loovveeeee it though when people talk to me about public sector inefficiency before telling me the firm they work for employs three people for a job that one person does in local government.

Spoiler

/s

Click to shrink...

I work for a federal agency in the US and I can safely say that, at least in my field office, 95% of our agency issues fall into #2. I currently have over 200 tickets flagged just for today, with more live work coming in hourly. It's physically impossible to keep up. And I'm fairly good at my job and love the work we do.

 

[The Albatross]

Conservatives force low funding leads to lower salary, lower salaries lead to less room for advancement, less room for advancement means the best and brightest bounce, those who stick around get immensely protective, entrenched, unwilling to change or disincentivized to change. No incentive to hire because underfunding leads to hostility towards anybody new. Those groups that do have power -- like public employee unions -- end up protecting the longest, slowest, most entrenched employees at the cost of the younger, future employees, and perverse incentives end up protecting the worst of the worst.

 

[Aaronrules380]

i imagine it's a combination of being understaffed and underfunded alongside many instances where processes are intentionally made slow and confusing to discourage people from using them to save costs

 

[BUNTING1243]

Chronic and deliberate underfunding to justify culling remaining services

 

[Vish]

The VA really sucks. Sounds worse than child support.

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

Government doesn't pay enough to hire the best, and people don't have to worry about being fired for performance.

 

[Zissou]

1. Government agencies are often underfunded.

2. Government agencies are large, and large organizations tend to suck at customer service (this applies to the private sector as well, of course).

 

[Amathene]

Because doing actual work requires effort and change and people usually hate both

 

[zeher]

It depends, but overall a lot of government workers have pretty good work life balances so they aren't being forced to work extra or quicker all the time. Just remember that next time, and to respect them as people living their lives.

Breathe. Relax. They are working a job most people would kill for.

Click to shrink...

Lazy so they don't ask for answers.
Doesn't matter cause a lot of times their jobs are pretty secure so minimal effort.
If they commit to doing something, they would have to pick a side?

Click to shrink...

My dad and my partner are both lifelong government employees and this is such bullshit. Yes they get fairly nice benefits and their positions are secure but they work way harder than I or my colleagues in industry do without the flexibility that salaried work usually provides. My partner in particular has worked for four state agencies now and has had a ton of mandatory overtime over the years. They do get a decent amount of time off but a lot of that recently has been furlough days, so without pay...

 

[ParanormalFupa]

The answer to your question is probably in the instructions on a form somewhere.

 

[Dis]

Because the USA and other governments sadly love to underfund government ran systems and then claim they are shit. As others have said, you get what you pay for and the USA would rather buy more tanks they won't use and bombs than fund the other functions of government well.

 

[Spork4000]

Self fulfilling prophecy. Half of our government doesn't believe in government. So they underfund it until it's awful at everything.

 

[karobit]

honey trap thread to increase the ignore list by adding anyone who replies with some variation of "lazy"

 

[kirby_fox]

Planned incompetence. Don't hire enough people, overload current staff all to save money. Lots of businesses do it too.

What could be excellent just needs to be ok enough because excellent and efficiency costs more.

 

[Wilsongt]

Also, it's hard to hire government employees as they have to go through extensive background checks and people find other jobs before that's done.

 

[nded]

Some of it is people voting to cut taxes and then acting surprised when they get what they pay for.

 

[Yams]

With the VA it really depends on which one you live by. The Fresno one is pretty good and they move quick. I hated the one in LA when I lived there.

 

[Drakeon]

Also, it's hard to hire government employees as they have to go through extensive background checks and people find other jobs before that's done.

Click to shrink...

Yep, hard to compete with the speed the private sector can hire at. If we actually had full staff where I work, we wouldn't be slow or inefficient. The last time we were close was early 2020, then we got hit with budget cuts and we haven't been close since. We just always have open positions. Worked there 5+ years and I can't remember the last time we were fully staffed for my relatively small office. Maybe at some point in 2019?

 

[NCR Ranger]

I never worked at the VA, but in my experience with another part of the government, polices are vague, complex, and ever changing. It is impossible to keep people on the same page once an organization gets big enough. Add in high turn over, budgets cuts, poor morale, or whatever other issues there might be and things turn into a cluster real fast.

 

[Trey]

1. Government agencies are often underfunded.

2. Government agencies are large, and large organizations tend to suck at customer service (this applies to the private sector as well, of course).

Click to shrink...

Also government almost only deals with actual real life stuff, things that have to be handled. It's not like someone calling in to complain because their Amazon package came a day late.

It's just a matter of government needing to exist, with important stakes, and usually not enough resources.