Why do some 30 fps games feel smoother than others?

[El Mariachi]

After playing 60+ fps games on PC for a long time I started playing on consoles more often last year and was actually surprised how well I was able to handle the framerate dump to 30 fps - but as I turns out it was a lot due to me playing game like Horizon and ACO a lot, which both feel insanely smooth despite the 30 fps.

When I booted up Witcher 3 the other day I was like.... wow, this really feels like a 30 fps game.

Can someone explain to me what the reason is for this? Is this motion blur? If yes, I tried playing around with those settings in Witcher 3 and still wasn't able to get it as smooth as Horizon.

 

[Sinfamy]

Good motion blur mixed with really tight controls.
Why I loved Dark Souls on PS3, felt really responsive.

 

[Calibro]

Frame times. The Witcher 3 struggles to maintain consistent frame times, while Horizon is way better at it.

 

[Kuosi]

Good motion blur.

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this, good motion blur help alleviate the choppiness

 

[Kuro]

Frame pacing

 

[CalamityPixel]

Good motion blur
No frame skips
No ghosting
Good timing of all frames
No screen tears.

 

[Doskoi Panda]

The quality of the motion blur, the responsiveness of camera control (and input in general), and frame pacing are the major contributors to the differences you feel from game to game.

I haven't played W3 on consoles, but I'd assume that as with many other open-world RPGs it's the frame pacing that has W3 feeling choppier than other 30fps games for you

 

[Inugami]

Frame pacing

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This is the most important factor. Motion blue just ruins image quality.

 

[lordlad]

frame pacing

good 30fps: Horizone ZD, UC4 & LL

bad 30fps: FROM Software games

 

[Brau]

Frame pacing

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Beaten. Was gonna mention this right away.

 

[Sei]

the Frame pacing is tight, that means the game is running at 45+ FPS but is locked down to 30.

In other games the game is barely running at 25-30 FPS, and it's noticeably lagging.

 

[WhoaIsThatMars]

I think if there's one thing DF has taught me (there's more), it's that frame pacing is just as, if not, more important than frame rate.


Bloodborne is still in my top 10 tho

 

[Mcjmetroid]

I would put it down to some character animations being better than others.

 

[DrKelpo]

yep, frame pacing is a big factor

 

[GhostTrick]

Framepacing, input lag, motion blur implementation and also animations.

 

[El Mariachi]

Thanks for the replies guys. So it's frame pacing. Wish all games could do it like in Horizon und Uncharted. Wouldn't even shed a tear at the loss of 60 fps.
But as it is I now have to choose between PC (smoothness) and PS4pro (image quality thanks to OLED) for Witcher 3. Would be a no brainer for PS4pro if it had better frame pacing. :(

 

[SnakeyHips]

As others have said: frame pacing/timing.

There are a few tricks you can do on PC like limiting pre-rendered frames (usually to 1) or using a fps limiter along with vsync which can improve it on certain games. Definitely makes a significant difference.

 

[パンダさん]

Bad frame pacing introduces micro stuttering, so a 45 fps game can feel worse than a 30 fps game.
Here's an interesting article by Digital Foundry:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-frame-rate-vs-frame-pacing

 

[Blitzhex]

Xenoblade Chronicles 2 looks amazing with it's per object motion blur and feels good to play with its low input lag. In docked mode atleast and when it's not get that low fps bug in gormott.

 

[Al3x1s]

Frame times and control response, probably because any programmed/device based input lag is multiplied in lower framerates. If it's super tight outside the framerate it remains pretty good at 30fps too. Toukiden 1 is a 30fps locked game on PC that somehow feels really nice to play (and I didn't even actually like the game, I was just impressed with how responsive it felt at 30fps).

Controller vs mouse helps too, you don't pan around as fast in an FPS with the analog sticks so you don't see next to no frames from looking all the way to your left to all the way to your right with objects just teleporting from one side of the screen to the other. With the slower and smoother analog stick view you at least get a few more frames between the extremes and therefor at least a semblance of motion. To get that with a mouse you'd have to actively stop yourself from playing as fast as it's natural to do in order to have the frame rate keep up with your movements, on console (or gamepad on PC) that's the default and you don't feel gimped.

 

[Alek]

Good motion blur
No frame skips
No ghosting
Good timing of all frames
No screen tears.

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This + input latency (since it's directly tied to frame rate and having more input latency can make it feel like oyu're playing a lower FPS game).

 

[Deleted member 8408]

Thanks for the replies guys. So it's frame pacing. Wish all games could do it like in Horizon und Uncharted. Wouldn't even shed a tear at the loss of 60 fps.
But as it is I now have to choose between PC (smoothness) and PS4pro (image quality thanks to OLED) for Witcher 3. Would be a no brainer for PS4pro if it had better frame pacing. :(

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Steam link or run a HDMI cable from your PC to your OLED. I have an OLED do the latter, the pro is for Sony exclusives with the exception of a handful of games I play primarily in multiplayer.

Why choose when you can have it all?

 

[its_Ditz]

.

 

[Manggei]

Frame pacing

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This. I guess that's one of the reasons, why Skyrim on the Switch is so comfortable to play, especially undocked.

 

[El Mariachi]

Steam link or run a HDMI cable from your PC to your OLED. I have an OLED do the latter, the pro is for Sony exclusives with the exception of a handful of games I play primarily in multiplayer.

Why choose when you can have it all?

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With OLED being a self emissive tech I'd rather avoid using it with a PC. Also, as to my knowledge PC won't get HDR, which is a huge deal for me.

 

[Deleted member 8408]

With OLED being a self emissive tech I'd rather avoid using it with a PC. Also, as to my knowledge PC won't get HDR, which is a huge deal for me.

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If you want HDR in the Witcher 3 then your hands are tied but due to the increase in IQ, graphics quality and the availability of mods it's worth the trade off IMO.

 

[Doskoi Panda]

witcher vision is so much nicer and easier to look at without the lsd filter. I don't know if I'd have put as much time as I did into W3 without the ability to mod it, but I'm pretty sure CDPR actually updated the game with most of the features I would have modded in, in 2016/2017

 

[LewieP]

You can have a 60fps game with unresponsive controls because of their animation/input lag.

 

[Solid Shake]

Also helps if you aren't an FPS. The only FPS that has ever felt somewhat smooth is Destiny, and that's pushing it.

Some games do just feel right though, like Horizon and Fortnite feels super crispy.

 

[pswii60]

OP what console are you playing W3 on? It's a perfect locked 30fps on X (in resolution mode) with no frame pacing issues - but it feels janky on the base consoles mostly due to poor frame times and motion blur.

Also helps if you aren't an FPS. The only FPS that has ever felt somewhat smooth is Destiny, and that's pushing it.

Some games do just feel right though, like Horizon and Fortnite feels super crispy.

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The great thing about HZD is how low the input lag feels for a 30fps game.

Whereas Hellblade on PS4 Pro at 30fps has the worst input lag I've experienced since KZ2. If you don't believe me, just switch between the 60hz mode and back again and try moving the camera in both modes - you'll see how extremely responsive it feels in 60hz mode (even though it never actually hits 60fps), almost like a totally different game, and really sluggish in 30hz mode.

 

[Yautja_Warrior]

Stable framerate, correct frame pacing and good use of motion blur are the key to a smooth 30fps.

 

[SpokkX]

Good motion blur mixed with really tight controls.
Why I loved Dark Souls on PS3, felt really responsive.

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Uhm Dark Souls on ps3 is not even 30fps - and it is not responsive either :)

Anyway good motion blur and sampling input higher than 30/sec are two reasons

 

[El Mariachi]

OP what console are you playing W3 on? It's a perfect locked 30fps on X (in resolution mode) with no frame pacing issues - but it feels janky on the base consoles mostly due to poor frame times and motion blur.

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Booted it on the PS4pro and intended to start playing it once the HDR patch drops. Felt so much more choppy than Horizon...

 

[pswii60]

Booted it on the PS4pro and intended to start playing it once the HDR patch drops. Felt so much more choppy than Horizon...

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Also keep in mind that the animations, character movement and camera controls are far less smooth and refined than HZD, so that also has an impact on the overall experience.

 

[Kuosi]

Booted it on the PS4pro and intended to start playing it once the HDR patch drops. Felt so much more choppy than Horizon...

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Yeah 60 vs 30 is pretty apparent on W3, when I tried playing on my old 980ti on 1440p vs 4k I quickly settled down to higher frames on 1440p

 

[hankenta]

I actually had issues with both Horizon and Uncharted Lost Legacy on a normal PS4, but that might be because of framedrops below 30fps. I do agree that some games feel less bad than others even though I'm used to 60fps on PC. I just started playing Gravity Rush 2 which is 30 fps after finishing GR1 which is 60 and the transition was a bit jarring at first, but not as bad as I thought.

 

[Deleted member 11038]

Played the Monster Hunter beta on base Ps4 and it felt like way less than 30 fps sometimes. Digital Foundry showed it is framepacing, even if the game is at 30 or higher it feels lower because of it.

Hope they will improve it on final release.

 

[Sinfamy]

Uhm Dark Souls on ps3 is not even 30fps - and it is not responsive either :)

Anyway good motion blur and sampling input higher than 30/sec are two reasons

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Of course, it doesn't compare to the PC version with DSFix, but I was mostly comparing it to Dark Souls 2 which feels a lot more sluggish.

 

[2112]

Games like Uncharted 4 and HZD actually make me kinda motion sick due to the excessive motion blur. You can tone it down on Uncharted but then it looks framey as fuck.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Frame pacing and locked 30 FPS. That's all. No fancy smoothing, no post process stuff. Just proper frame pacing, and proper 30FPS lock. The type of game does play into it as well mind you. But that's why some games feel perfectly fine to play, and others make you feel like its low 20's. Sadly, some devs just can't seem to understand wht this means...

 

[Schlomo]

It's not just frame pacing. Nioh at 30 fps feels absolutely terrible, and DF confirmed it's not due to bad frame pacing.

 

[Deleted member 22585]

There are some games that do a very good job of feeling pretty fluid and direct even at 30fps. Driveclub is also one example that handled it very well.
Input latency is important.

 

[Linus815]

Frame pacing problems aren't widespread, but games dipping even from their 30 fps target, unfortunately, are. A game running at stable 30 fps is acceptable in my books, but if it regularly dips to 27-28 fps for example, it can be percieved as choppy. It's "only" 2-3 fps loss but 30 fps is already at the border of what one percieves as "smooth" so it makes a big difference, much bigger than dropping from 60 to 57 for example.

In addition, input lag and animations - games like Uncharted have a lot of fancy animations and a feeling of momentum when moving around, which works wonders at masking the extra input lag due to 30 fps. Whereas something like TW3 feels a lot more "stiff" and you will notice the input latency more.
Plus, blur. It can mask camera movements that you would otherwise percieve as choppy. Some games do it much better than others. Though I found UC4's default blur setting to be almost sickening, it needed to be turned halfway down for me.

 

[daninthemix]

1. Perfect frame pacing
2. Low input lag
3. Motion blur with the correct shutter speed for 30fps

 

[azertydu91]

Good motion blur
No frame skips
No ghosting
Good timing of all frames
No screen tears.

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Man I know it's completely off topic but I really want to see your avatar being kratosyfied.It would be hilarious.

 

[Sir Guts]

It's all about the frames pacing. If it's good then you won't feel any screen tearing or a bad motion blur

 

[abrasivemurk]

Because they are locked at 30 unlike games like Monster Hunter World.

 

[TubaZef]

Because a high framerate is not nearly as important as gamers think it is.

A steady frame-rate is much more important to the game's "smoothness".

 

[Lysistrata]

As an observation on my part I think good implementation of data streaming and loading can also help. Same way SSD can feel better.

 

[IwazaruK7]

Maybe to note that not all developers tie speed of game to its framerate.