Why Don't We Get More Games Like Fallout: New Vegas?

[EMBee99]

So, I'm back into Fallout after really enjoying the show and replaying New Vegas.

I remember it not being a huge leap from Fallout 3, but also seemed to release much quicker in that way - having a team work against an established framework for a successful game and introducing a new story, some new assets, etc. It made for a good stopgap until we could get Fallout 4 and also evolved the series in special ways.

Instead of waiting potentially a decade for a new mainline Fallout game, why not open up the tech supporting Fallout 4 for other studios to tell different stories in the universe, especially if they are doing some work to modernize it for this generation of consoles? Always struck me weird that other studios also wouldn't do this with franchises.

 

[Stoney Mason]

I think outside of COD and maybe AC Creed reviewers and the general public tend to be much harsher on relatively iterative sequels like this. That was much less the case in the past imo.

 

[EchoChamber]

Because Bethesda can't let other studios make good games with their IPs.

 

[Guerrilla]

Halo odst is another one of those. Or BioShock 2. There were tons back during the 360 era

 

[SunBroDave]

Well if the licensed out game is bad, then you've damaged your franchise. And if the licensed out game is too good, then people will instead complain that your main developers are the bad team

 

[DesVoeux]

I've always assumed New Vegas didn't sell as well as the numbered Fallouts, and that's why Bethesda hasn't let Obsidian or another studio have a crack at it again.

 

[HylianSeven]

As to why other studios don't do this, I don't really have much of an answer on that.

Regarding New Vegas, it released so quickly because Obsidian was only given 18 months to make it. They also had the super fucked "Metracritic bonus" where it had to be 85 or higher on MC or they didn't get another payout. It didn't quite make that.

It's frustrating because NV was a much better game than 3 or 4.

 

[Jedi2016]

The Outer Worlds? Has a very "New Vegas" feel to it, from what I played.

 

[KillstealWolf]

Something something "Glorified DLC" is the main reason I guess you don't see it that much.

 

[Akiba756]

Techinically speaking, fallout 76 was the new vegas of fallout 4 ( though yes, I would've preferred a new single player rpg instead of an survival mmo)
Doesn't help that, going into the ps4 gen, game development time increased by a lot, God of war ragnarok was a iterative sequel to 2018, and even so it took 5 years to develop

 

[NightShift]

Fallout 76 was the new New Vegas. lol

 

[Dyle]

Remember the horrific state of New Vegas' original release?

Tools that may be reliable to the people who made them often won't work well for a new team, requiring significant support from the original studio that hinders their ability to work on their primary projects.

 

[strangelove777]

I feel like people nowadays are really critical over games reusing assets. Like they're "lesser" games and not worth buying.
Sony first party seem to be the only ones doing it for the most part with Infamous First Light, Uncharted Lost Legacy and Spiderman Miles Morales.

 

[Uzzy]

Because Fallout New Vegas was so much better than 3 comparing them is actually a joke, and Bethesda don't want people going 'why did Obsidian manage to make a GOAT game in two weeks with a box of scraps but Bethesda can't make a workable game in five years with infinite budget.'

 

[duckroll]

That OP is the biggest insult to New Vegas I've ever read. Lol. I came in here ready to support the advocacy of allowing creators who actually know what they are doing with an IP to shine, but instead I read that New Vegas is a same-engine low-tech stopgap between Fallout 3 and 4. SAD!

 

[boontobias]

Instead of asking why arent there more games like New Vegas you should ask why was New Vegas able to be made in the first place, and you'll get your answer

 

[HylianSeven]

The Outer Worlds? Has a very "New Vegas" feel to it, from what I played.

Click to shrink...

It's a very good game, but it doesn't quite hit the same. One issue in particular I had with it was that there's no "negative space" in the maps. Mainly New Vegas had it where you would walk across lots of blank wasteland, but you could almost always see three interesting things from wherever you're standing. In Outer Worlds was when I exited a town and there were abandoned buildings, they were just filled with dudes right outside the town. It felt really weird.

 

[Lobster Roll]

They don't really fund mostly-empty open world games these days.

 

[Akiba756]

Fun fact, Obsidian actually pitched a "Skyrim New Vegas" to bethesda
It would've followed an alternate timeline where Alduin won and the setting would be a land under the rule of the dragons

Obsidian proposed making an Elder Scrolls game, but Bethesda said no: "I never got the impression Bethesda was happy with Fallout: New Vegas' reception"

There's a universe where Obsidian got to make an Elder Scrolls spinoff, but sadly, it's not ours.

www.windowscentral.com

It was shot down sadly

 

[JustinH]

Halo odst is another one of those. Or BioShock 2. There were tons back during the 360 era

Click to shrink...

ODST started out as just an expansion that got... "expanded" though, lol.

As to why other studios don't do this, I don't really have much of an answer on that.

Regarding New Vegas, it released so quickly because Obsidian was only given 18 months to make it. They also had the super fucked "Metracritic bonus" where it had to be 85 or higher on MC or they didn't get another payout. It didn't quite make that.

It's frustrating because NV was a much better game than 3 or 4.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, it launched in a really "fucked" state. I played it on launch, but just beelined through it since it crashed so freaking much. I didn't "really play it" until I tried Fallout 76 and was like "I don't like this," but it reminded me that I liked Fallout games, strangely. I had a great time with it when I actually gave it a "fair shake" and absolutely love it now.

 

[Foolish]

I agree OP. The wait between TES V and VI is ridiculous. A smaller-scale game would have done wonders to fill the gap, made by another studio or no.

 

[HStallion]

Remember the horrific state of New Vegas' original release?

Tools that may be reliable to the people who made them often won't work well for a new team, requiring significant support from the original studio that hinders their ability to work on their primary projects.

Click to shrink...

Skyrim literally became unplayable on the PS3 after enough play time and Fallout 3 was a mess in many of the same ways as New Vegas.

 

[Edward]

Fallout has the potential to be such a massive universe that can span multiple genres i really wish they would just let companies license out the property i mean the world is massive people could make games based in other countries, different varying timelines across a multitude of genres.

As much as i like Phils hands off approach in the past i wish that dude would go hands the fuck on. Fallout (and even more so with Elder Scrolls) is a big IP it shouldn't sit dormant for this fucking long.

 

[elenarie]

Crunch, short deadline, rush to ship. What's not to like.

I do agree on general, and would like to see worlds explored by more standalone side games. Though how viable those are from a business point of view, that's a big question.

 

[ned_ballad]

Didn't someone want to do a New Vegas style game for the Elder Scrolls and got told no by Bethesda?

Would have be cool to have a random side Elder Scrolls game in between the gigantic once every 10 (now 15 I guess?) year mega games

 

[Lukar]

Fun fact, Obsidian actually pitched a "Skyrim New Vegas" to bethesda
It would've followed an alternate timeline where Alduin won and the setting would be a land under the rule of the dragons

Obsidian proposed making an Elder Scrolls game, but Bethesda said no: "I never got the impression Bethesda was happy with Fallout: New Vegas' reception"

There's a universe where Obsidian got to make an Elder Scrolls spinoff, but sadly, it's not ours.

www.windowscentral.com

It was shot down sadly

Click to shrink...

Literally the most interesting concept I've heard for an Elder Scrolls game. What the fuck Bethesda. 😭

 

[Kyari]

The actual answer is that spiralling development costs and times mean that even stop-gap sequels like that take too much to develop so why bother

 

[Uncle at Nintendo]

Bethesda was mad they put out a superior game in such huge constraints.

 

[Luke_wal]

Ubisoft seemed like they were really going for this for a while, where they took the world map from one game, re-skinned it, and used it for something else.

Far Cry 3 -> Blood Dragon
Far Cry 4 -> Primal
AC Odyssey -> "Gods & Monsters" (became Immortals: Fenix Rising)
Far Cry 5 -> New Dawn

New Dawn might have been so bad that it killed this trend for them, but I believe the idea was "we've put in a lot of work for this world map, let's re-use that map and most of the tech we built for this game, and it at least cuts down some of the costs." Personally, I'm all here for that. I didn't realize the Primal Map was the 4 map until somebody pointed it out online.

 

[Dranakin]

The Outer Worlds? Has a very "New Vegas" feel to it, from what I played.

Click to shrink...

It's a very good game, but it doesn't quite hit the same. One issue in particular I had with it was that there's no "negative space" in the maps. Mainly New Vegas had it where you would walk across lots of blank wasteland, but you could almost always see three interesting things from wherever you're standing. In Outer Worlds was when I exited a town and there were abandoned buildings, they were just filled with dudes right outside the town. It felt really weird.

Click to shrink...

OP isn't talking about the game per se, but rather about the development process of letting another studio reuse assets for a sequel to reduce time between game release.

 

[Cantaim]

Bethesda was mad they put out a superior game in such huge constraints.

Click to shrink...

Y'all are aware New Vegas started as an expansion and Todd Howard was so impressed with what he saw he pushed hard to take it further and make it a stand alone game right?

 

[Bard]

Fallout has the potential to be such a massive universe that can span multiple genres i really wish they would just let companies license out the property i mean the world is massive people could make games based in other countries, different varying timelines across a multitude of genres.

As much as i like Phils hands off approach in the past i wish that dude would go hands the fuck on. Fallout (and even more so with Elder Scrolls) is a big IP it shouldn't sit dormant for this fucking long.

Click to shrink...

Here's hoping they also do a Fallout game set somewhere besides the US.

 

[BrokenIcarus]

It is fascinating that both New Vegas and Dark Souls 1 were made with incredibly limiting time constraints and to this day they're hailed as arguably the best in their respective franchises.
I'm sure there was a lot of crunch involved that might lengthen the develop time if they did without, but man, I could really care less about some asset reuse when you can deliver a quality game in a short timespan like that

 

[goroadachi]

People unfairly referring to games like Ragnarok as "DLC" is probably part of the reason

 

[EMBee99]

OP isn't talking about the game per se, but rather about the development process of letting another studio reuse assets for a sequel to reduce time between game release.

Click to shrink...

Exactly. New Vegas is a testament to letting unique takes evolve a franchise in a better direction (egos be damned!). Some of Sony's output would be perfect for this - like imagine providing the Last of Us' assets, framework, and underlying tech to a variety of game devs, each making smaller, focused "episodes" that they could release at a subscription level (Bennett Foddy's The Last of Us would move units). I get the aspect of quality control and whatnot, but it would make for efficiency, interest, etc.

 

[ragolliangatan]

Part of it is development time - 18 months to 2 years was fairly normal between titles back in that era but for fidelity and quality reasons in the current generation it would still likely take 3-4 years and be extremely expensive.

The other part if perception from a very vocal group of gamers that it's glorified DLC.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Y'all are aware New Vegas started as an expansion and Todd Howard was so impressed with what he saw he pushed hard to take it further and make it a stand alone game right?

Click to shrink...

People have weird agendas to push certain narratives.

 

[Tbm24]

It is fascinating that both New Vegas and Dark Souls 1 were made with incredibly limiting time constraints and to this day they're hailed as arguably the best in their respective franchises.
I'm sure there was a lot of crunch involved that might lengthen the develop time if they did without, but man, I could really care less about some asset reuse when you can deliver a quality game in a short timespan like that

Click to shrink...

New Vegas did not launch as a quality game. It was an annoying time to play if you ran into issues like many people did back then. This was a direct result of the rushed nature of it. If someone remembers this time differently feel free to chime in, I did not have a good time with it early.

 

[Otakunofuji]

This whole "Bethesda was jealous ..." nonsense needs to stop. You guys are making fools of yourselves. Stop.

Anyways, I'd love more iterative sequels coming out at a faster pace like this. Especially if different teams can put their own spin on things, even if the changes are only slight.

 

[NDA-Man]

People have weird agendas to push certain narratives.

Click to shrink...

No, there has to be a grand conspiracy against NV, because it's clearly superior. That 85 metascore and lower sales than 3 don't count, because after a decade and a half of reappraisal, it was totally unfair, man! Has to be jealousy, cannot anything else.

/s

 

[logash]

I love that we get as many AC games as we do. It reminds me of PS1 final fantasy games where some of the core mechanics were changed but they were all still clearly built on the same foundation. Devs need to do that more. All this nonsense about needing to reinvent the wheel each time is a bummer

 

[HeikoSC]

Exactly. New Vegas is a testament to letting unique takes evolve a franchise in a better direction (egos be damned!). Some of Sony's output would be perfect for this - like imagine providing the Last of Us' assets, framework, and underlying tech to a variety of game devs, each making smaller, focused "episodes" that they could release at a subscription level (Bennett Foddy's The Last of Us would move units). I get the aspect of quality control and whatnot, but it would make for efficiency, interest, etc.

Click to shrink...

Internet Users and Media would tear them apart over the cheap "money grab scam". Youtube would be flooded with rage bait videos comparing every single asset over 3 hour long videos and the Steam Review Bombing would find another victim.

 

[Kreim]

It'll always be so incredibly dumb to me there wasn't a Skyrim followup like this given it's insane popularity. That Obsidian was ready to do one makes it unbearable tbh.

 

[RPGam3r]

I would love more stop gap releases between their major numbered releases for Fallout. They could even be smaller the NV and I would be fine with that.

 

[Rygar 8Bit]

Graphics aren't a huge leap, but the writing and quest design are by miles.

I would love more stop gap releases between their major numbered releases for Fallout. They could even be smaller the NV and I would be fine with that.

Click to shrink...

I don't know why companies don't do it more. Like with Dice Battlefront games those assets are crazy good they could have did a turn around with those and made a good Dark Forces game. Same with Squadrons, could have made a new Tie Fighter or X-Wing.

 

[HStallion]

New Vegas did not launch as a quality game. It was an annoying time to play if you ran into issues like many people did back then. This was a direct result of the rushed nature of it. If someone remembers this time differently feel free to chime in, I did not have a good time with it early.

Click to shrink...

Some of you need to go and play Bethesda games on the PS3 and 360. Those games ran horribly and were full of all manner of bugs large and small to the point the PS3 version of Skyrim could become unplayable.

 

[fourfourfun]

NV also exposed a financial structure where Obsidian were something like one Metacritic point below being allowed it. That didn't go down too well with the community.

 

[EMBee99]

Internet Users and Media would tear them apart over the cheap "money grab scam". Youtube would be flooded with rage bait videos comparing every single asset over 3 hour long videos and the Steam Review Bombing would find another victim.

Click to shrink...

I honestly don't believe this. Positioning the intent of the work, either through marketing or early outreach to gaming press (which is still marketing, sure) and setting expectations clearly beforehand as it relates to the value of what it brings would negate a lot of this. Case in point, one could argue Helldivers 2 is merely a remake of Helldivers 1 in third-person. Where's that screaming mob taking them to task for reuse?

 

[Darkstorne]

The actual answer is that spiralling development costs and times mean that even stop-gap sequels like that take too much to develop so why bother

Click to shrink...

My guess is the ACTUAL actual answer is because they do it in-house with sister studios now, and run them as GaaS titles.

Fallout has 76. TES has ESO. Both are making gazillions and keeping the IP alive and relevant, with trailers for new content shown at gaming showcase season (RIP E3) annually. No need to farm the IP out anymore.

There's a chance this stance changes now they're under Microsoft, but I think that's slim because of the profitability of ESO and 76. I think we're highly likely to see some kind of Starfield Online released shortly after TES6 too, possibly by the 76 team, to give that IP the same treatment.

 

[Skiptastic]

I'd be down for iterative sequels to games I really like.