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Why Finland and Denmark are happier than the United States

Soulnado

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This is a great video that was posted just a couple hours ago:


- Giving birth it's almost free. Hospital treats you like royalty. You get a free box packed with 63 items for the baby's first year.
- Generous parental leave (10 months)
- People are not punished for taking breaks to change careers
- Higher taxes, but that means free education (college) and healthcare
- Low crime rates
- Wealth is balanced (not too many rich people, no extreme poverty)
- Better work/life balance

Watching it makes me depressed about how fucked up the US is. Healthcare, education, social security.... to think people used to believe the US was the best country to migrate to. This could be farther from the truth now.
 
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surr

surr

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Oct 27, 2017
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I keep having this nagging thought that that kind of cultural happiness isn't possible in a multicultural society. We reap the benefits of a large, broad workforce with different views but underneath it all we just aren't willing to help those that differ too much from us.

Before it was all race based and it still kind of is but now it's probably equally class based as well. We just don't trust our neighbors the way a homogenous society does.
 
nsilvias

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i always talk about how america is the richest country in the world but how everything is fucked here to my family
 
SugarNoodles

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surr said:
I keep having this nagging thought that that kind of cultural happiness isn't possible in a multicultural society. We reap the benefits of a large, broad workforce with different views but underneath it all we just aren't willing to help those that differ too much from us.

Before it was all race based and it still kind of is but now it's probably equally class based as well. We just don't trust our neighbors the way a homogenous society does.
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Sure but the real issue is that we dont trust taxes.
 
Mekanos

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Sadly even the social democracies of Europe still reap the benefits of the ugliest parts of capitalism, namely colonialism and racism. It's not a bad model to start with, but it needs to go further. I'd call it a win if health care and education become free in my lifetime as an American.
 
danm999

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Yes alleviating peoples immediate material concerns does tend to make them happier than those who don't have have them alleviated.
 
Hesemonni

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Mekanos said:
Sadly even the social democracies of Europe still reap the benefits of the ugliest parts of capitalism, namely colonialism and racism. It's not a bad model to start with, but it needs to go further. I'd call it a win if health care and education become free in my lifetime as an American.
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Finland, that colonialistic super power reaping dem benefits.
 
Mekanos

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Hesemonni said:
Finland, that colonialistic super power reaping dem benefits.
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Colonialism doesn't exist strictly in the 19th century concept of forceful land occupation. All capitalist countries benefit from the exploitation of the global south for resources, which countries like Finland still participate in.
 
Doran

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Helps not being a relatively young country with over 300 million people who for the most part don't get along.
 
mugurumakensei

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Doran said:
Helps not being a relatively young country with over 300 million people who for the most part don't get along.
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the homogenous population is also another factor. There's a reason Zwarte Piete only received backlash in the modern internet age even though it's an egregious case of black face.
 

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Mekanos said:
Colonialism doesn't exist strictly in the 19th century concept of forceful land occupation. All capitalist countries benefit from the exploitation of the global south of resources, which countries like Finland still participate in.
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This is true - that is why any comparison between people in varieties of capitalism is relative - in the US the colonial accumulation is stronger as is the superexploitation of labor and the people are less satisfied than pepple living without daylight. But I agree with the essence of your argument, capitalism needs to go as it is the root cause.
 
Neo C.

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surr said:
I keep having this nagging thought that that kind of cultural happiness isn't possible in a multicultural society. We reap the benefits of a large, broad workforce with different views but underneath it all we just aren't willing to help those that differ too much from us.

Before it was all race based and it still kind of is but now it's probably equally class based as well. We just don't trust our neighbors the way a homogenous society does.
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I mean, Switzerland isn't Finland, but it's still way better than the US in terms of happiness. And over 20 percent of the Swiss population are foreigners without counting all the naturalized citizens and Swiss people with mixed roots. Western Europe isn't as homogenous as you might believe.
 
Mekanos

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Rupetta said:
This is true - that is why any comparison between people in varieties of capitalism is relative - in the US the colonial accumulation is stronger as is the superexploitation of labor and the people are less satisfied than pepple living without daylight. But I agree with the essence of your argument, capitalism needs to go as it is the root cause.
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Sure, obviously I think any of us here would trade in a heartbeat for America to have health, education, living standards, and happiness comparable to the social democracies of Europe, and that America has a much bigger seat the table of colonialism and labor exploitation than the likes of Finland.

My original post in this thread was to tacitly say social democracies, ideally, could transition to true socialism where workers democratically own the industries and corporations acting for profit are abolished. But that won't happen as long as these countries facilitate even "tamed" capitalism and continue to participate in industries that exploit the global south for resources and steal the surplus value of labor. And in America, we're much more likely to see reforms towards a social democracy lobbied away, just as we've seen with basically everything post-New Deal. Still, as I said, it's a good starting point and I hope the country is ready to start moving in that direction before it becomes unsalvageable.
 
mugurumakensei

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Neo C. said:
I mean, Switzerland isn't Finland, but it's still way better than the US in terms of happiness. And over 20 percent of the Swiss population are foreigners without counting all the naturalized citizens and Swiss people with mixed roots. Western Europe isn't as homogenous as you might believe.
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A majority of those foreigners are from Germany, France, Italy, and Romania(Slavic countries). And yes, Denmark isn't like Switzerland as 90% of Denmark's population are from families that have been living in Denmark for centuries.
 
Zolbrod

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surr said:
I keep having this nagging thought that that kind of cultural happiness isn't possible in a multicultural society.
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The US isn't the only multicultural society on the planet.
Canada is THE most multicultural society in the world, and it's ranked 9th in world happiness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report#2019_World_Happiness_Report

Multiculturalism isn't the issue. Racism is also abundant everywhere.
Clearly there are other reasons.
 
mugurumakensei

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The Nordic countries are basically what happens when white privilege becomes an entire country. They profit on the backs of other countries and all the white people get to reap the rewards.
 

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Zolbrod said:
The US isn't the only multicultural society on the planet.
Canada is THE most multicultural society in the world, and it's ranked 9th in world happiness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report#2019_World_Happiness_Report

Multiculturalism isn't the issue. Racism is also abundant everywhere.
Clearly there are other reasons.
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the most multicultural societies in the world are Chad, Cameroon and Nigeria ... this has been the result of a multitude of studies
 
Ac30

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Neo C. said:
I mean, Switzerland isn't Finland, but it's still way better than the US in terms of happiness. And over 20 percent of the Swiss population are foreigners without counting all the naturalized citizens and Swiss people with mixed roots. Western Europe isn't as homogenous as you might believe.
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Many/most of those immigrants are from Western and Southern Europe though. Italian, French, Spanish and Portuguese.
 
CherryWoodFuton

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This video is def a bit more nuanced than the title suggests highlighting the pros and cons of a society like Denmark which I appreciate
 

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mugurumakensei said:
The Nordic countries are basically what happens when white privilege becomes an entire country. They profit on the backs of other countries and all the white people get to reap the rewards.
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Relatively, the Nordic countries have engaged less in appropriation by disposession abroad - if you want to show how the superexploitation has been relatively more intense in the Nordics you need more than blanket statements. This is not to say the countries have not benefited from (neo)colonialism - they have, but relatively less than other varieties of capitalist societies.
 
CloudWolf

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Doran said:
Helps not being a relatively young country with over 300 million people who for the most part don't get along.
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Finland is younger than the US.

mugurumakensei said:
the homogenous population is also another factor. There's a reason Zwarte Piete only received backlash in the modern internet age even though it's an egregious case of black face.
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You're not the only ones with a multicultural society.

The Netherlands (which is were Zwarte Piet is from) is not a homogenous population. We're as much a multicultural population as the US, we have significant Polish, Muslim (mainly Moroccans & Turkish), Asian, Caribbean and South American (Surinamese) communities. And we have our own serious racist issues related to that (for instance, look up Hans Janmaat, Pim Fortuyn, Geert Wilders, Theo van Gogh or Thierry Baudet).

It's also not true that Zwarte Piet only received backlash in the internet age. Criticism on the Zwarte Piet stereotype goes way back and the character has already gone through many changes since I was a kid (and before that).
 
Neo C.

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Ac30 said:
Many/most of those immigrants are from Western and Southern Europe though. Italian, French, Spanish and Portuguese.
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That doesn't make racism disappear, which is what the post I replied implies. Despite all the racism within Switzerland the social state is still decades ahead of US.

I think the US have a bigger problem with big money than with multiculturalism.
 
Masoyama

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Neo C. said:
That doesn't make racism disappear, which is what the post I replied implies. Despite all the racism within Switzerland the social state is still decades ahead of US.

I think the US have a bigger problem with big money than with multiculturalism.
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Size is a huge issue. It creates a divide between rural and urban that is impossible in Europe. It also makes infrastructure changes exponentially more expensive and promotes continuity above change.
 
mugurumakensei

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Rupetta said:
Relatively, the Nordic countries have engaged less in appropriation by disposession abroad - if you want to show how the superexploitation has been relatively more intense in the Nordics you need more than blanket statements. This is not to say the countries have not benefited from (neo)colonialism - they have, but relatively less than other varieties of capitalist societies.
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The Danish empire was engaged in the Atlantic slave trade as late as 1848 after the British empire had already pulled out.
 
Neo C.

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Masoyama said:
Size is a huge issue. It creates a divide between rural and urban that is impossible in Europe. It also makes infrastructure changes exponentially more expensive and promotes continuity above change.
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Size is definitely an issue, all the big countries like China and India also have huge social issues. It would be best for their citizens if those countries would split into smaller countries.
 
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