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Phil32

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,570
Well, it would give more longevity to content-light games like Mario Tennis Aces, that's for sure. I don't see an argument against them. I also don't see an absolute need to have achievements. If it did, I wish Nintendo would do an achievement system that unlocks MyNintendo coins or Mii outfits--something somewhat tangible as a reward for doing the more complicated, time-consuming things in its games. That'd be cool and worthwhile. /says this as he doesn't mind getting his 40+ Platinums for no reward ha
 

HBK

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,012
I respect your well thought out reasoning supporting trophies/achievements. But to me, they seem out-of-place and counter-intuitive to what gaming is about, having fun.

I was playing Tekken Tag Tournament HD with a friend recently and he was not used to an era where trophies did not exist. I noticed something interesting, he wanted to chase all the trophies in the game, doing mundane and I believe pointless task that the original game on the PS2 never intended, such as try to win 50 survival matches, win a match in a certain way, or adding more "work" to the game than there needs to be. Now everyone can spend their time doing what they like, but when it's not about having fun, discovering new abilities/strategies/mechanics on your own but just chasing a set of goals that probably was not even intended by the original designers, I think that is where achievements become a liability and problem.

As a person who grew up playing games before there was an emphasis on instant gratification such as : games playing themselves, gps direction, achievements, and general handholding, I just see more problems with achievements than benefits.

I also play WOW and have seen how achievements can turn a community toward elitism and doing mindless activities just to increase their "online" cred. You cannot join a competitive raid or PVP team without providing an achievement. I have seen people just flying around the world map collecting every lore/location to unlock an achievement, which I think they use to validate their character? It just seems like a very easy way to add "work" with very little actual game mechanic/design involved.
The problem with cheevos/trophies isn't the concept, it's the execution.

Most of the time they're just an afterthought that broadly goes into two categories : pointless, and tiresome.

Either it's a cheevo you'll unlock during normal play (such as "completing chapter 4", or "killing 100 zombies" in a game where you'll need to kill 500 to complete the game), or it's not and there's a fair chance it'll require grinding ("killing 1000 zombies" in a game where you'll need to kill 500 to complete the game).

That being said, "tutorial" achievements are a neat way to present some otherwise not-so-easily discovered aspects of a game. You could argue that it's a GD failure if you need a meta-system to tell you what you can do, but it can also be seen as an optional way to discover advanced tricks for those who look for them while keeping the vanilla experience much simpler/streamlined.

Yet, as much as I like cheevos, I do not mind them being absent from Nintendo consoles. Not one bit. They are often badly designed and there's no way you can know that beforehand, which tends to lead to not checking them at all to prevent spoilers/disappointment, which kinda defeats their purpose in the first place ...

Edit :
They were a fun novelty.

In 2009.
I'd disagree on the date, but wholeheartedly agree on the feeling.

When I discovered them in PS2's Star Ocean 3, I thought it was a nice a concept.

Now it feels mandatory. I mean, it IS mandatory on some platforms. But it actually feels forced.

And to those saying "just ignore it!", well, what a better way to describe a GD failure than "don't play it!"
 
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Irrotational

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,228
Why would you decide which game to play based on whether or not is has achievements? Does the game mean more to you if playing it adds to a e-peen bar on your profile?

I'm seriously baffled by peoples obsession with this stuff. Unless this is a joke, in which case well done.

I think Lucreto has added to his explanation quite well.

I am similar to be honest. I don't particularly claim this is the "right" way to be, or that other people should be the same, but I think it is at least an understandable trait.

I like getting achievements for two reasons. 1 as a trophy/memory of doing something difficult. I'm crap at games and I'm quite chuffed that I got "the Dark soul" in DS1. Also the squirrels achievement in trials fusion. My memory is also quite bad so I like having a permanent record of stuff I did.

2. I like seeing numbers go up. Clickers, the extension of rpg levelling into almost every game, damage numbers in games, are proof that a lot of humanity has a weird delight in seeing numbers go up. I'm one of them.

In fact you could argue that inflation only exists because people want to see numbers go up. People want pay rises for doing the same things in the same jobs...

Yokus island express is a good example for me. I'd love to get that game on switch...and the portability would be really useful as I travel a lot. BUT, its weirdly bothering to me that I won't have any record (or much memory) of having played it. So I'll probably get it on Xbox... But in reality I haven't bought it at all because I already have far too much to play on the Xbox.

On the flip side, I find it strange that people love cosmetics so much, but I can at least understand that other people are different. People are ploughing tons of money (or time) into fortnite just to "look cool" . There isn't even an artificial number going up!
 

Black_Red

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,929
I like that nintendo games arent designed with achievements in mind unless the dev wants to.
 

Black_Red

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,929
I would rather have a proper gameplay tracker like the 3DS.

Now, THIS is a basic feature the switch (and PS4) are lacking.

What baffles me on people who skip cut scenes or plays Japanese games not knowing a word of Japanese. You are missing story.


Different opinions, but I think books and movies have better stories than games, si if it was only for story I couldnt play a game (unless it was a visual novel that feel like basically animated books).

But about your las parágrafo there are games that are better when you skip their (bad) story, . Bayonetta it's a 10/10 game for me because it lets me skip the cutscenes, just like MGR (and I love the metal gear trilogy).
 

kaiush

Member
Jan 22, 2018
298
I played Breath of the Wild and Mario Odyssey. I completed Mario but no incentive to even try to get the moons. I didn't finish Breath of the Wild. I lost incentive after the second boss.

I feel like, as with any form of entertainment, the incentive is that you have fun doing it.

Do you need similar validation to watch movies or listen to music or play board games?

If certain movie companies starting have Achievement systems for watching their movies, would you stop watching movies that didn't have them?
 

Lucreto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,668
I feel like, as with any form of entertainment, the incentive is that you have fun doing it.

Do you need similar validation to watch movies or listen to music or play board games?

If certain movie companies starting have Achievement systems for watching their movies, would you stop watching movies that didn't have them?

I haven't played a board game in years, I watch movies for the story like I mentioned above. I don't own any music I usually have the radio on in the background.

I find trophies fun as well as providing incentive to try new things in a game but the story is the main draw.
 

Falchion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,066
Boise
It's just another random and weird thing that Nintendo is behind on.

It's so strange to me that they think up and release forward-thinking and innovative products, such as the Switch itself, but still fall behind on basic features such as online functionality and achievements.

Pretty much this, I'm sure in another decade they'll be caught up to 2018.
 

giapel

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,620
Most game achievements are terrible anyway.
-Story progression achievements: congrats, you're playing the game
-Game completion achievements: great, you've actually finished it
-Game+ achievements: please play our game another 5 times? Yay, fun.
-Do x activity, y times: yea, our game is repetitive but you're gaining points, yay?
The only ones that have some merit are speed run ones due to the skill involved(they're still mostly unfun) and the one that involved some sort of play/move that you would not do during normal play. Extra points for having a cryptic but useful description.
But yeah, most achievements are just a checklist of things to do in game.