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mantidor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,813
[...] and while the great fairy is sexual there's nothing wrong with that, though I do wonder if they're intended to be designed after drag queens or if I'm just reading into their vibes which almost feel like a parody of femininity and if that's intentional or if that's like a misogyny from me

So I've heard that Aonuma's type of woman is... very in line with how the fairies are portrayed. His favorite character in TP is Telma and not for the reason you might think lol, I love Aonuma but the whole thing is a bit yikes-y.

I am absolutely not a fan that the fairies basically assault you when upgrading your armor, even if its supposed to be comedic.
 

Naiad

Member
Aug 27, 2020
978
I just wanted to say I really enjoy your posts around the forum. You approach things with a very unique voice and perspective, to fully allow yourself to feel the way you do and express that in your messaging and I always take the time to read anything you post, even about games that I otherwise have a hard time dealing with or wouldn't bother, such as Stellar Blade.

I'm in complete agreement with this as well. I appreciate Kyu's posts about Stellar Blade too because they can approach the game with a more focused and in-depth analysis of certain things that work and don't work and I know it's coming from a more thoughtful place than others. The things that Kyu picks up on from some of the costumes are ideas that I can agree with and be like "Yea, that's pretty cool too" and come to the same conclusion that if only they wouldn't have completely focused on Eve's attractiveness 100% because there are some pretty cool ideas being presented that I don't see in other games. It's just a shame that they decided eye candy was the most valuable asset over everything else.
 

Twohearts

Member
Feb 8, 2024
443
Straya
So I've heard that Aonuma's type of woman is... very in line with how the fairies are portrayed. His favorite character in TP is Telma and not for the reason you might think lol, I love Aonuma but the whole thing is a bit yikes-y.

I am absolutely not a fan that the fairies basically assault you when upgrading your armor, even if its supposed to be comedic.
Honestly it being comedic makes it even worse. My brain just completely blocked that stuff out honestly, it happens from time to time.
Also is very typical that he likes busty women. That more gets an eyeroll from me than a yikes but it's not great
 

Naiad

Member
Aug 27, 2020
978
Ever since I played OoT, I think I've come to expect all Great Fairies to have some....eccentricness to them.
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,733
Just like everything else with the game, Wind Waker had the best fairies
latest
 

Inquisitive_Ghost

Cranky Ghost Pokemon
Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,138
There's relatively few species where the females are colorful and the males plain, and in those cases it's because their gender roles are reversed, with the females competing and guarding, while the males nest.
I actually can't even think of an example of this, only of species where the males are brightly coloured and the females duller, or where the two are essentially indistinguishable. Do you have an example?

I am absolutely not a fan that the fairies basically assault you when upgrading your armor, even if its supposed to be comedic.
This has always bothered me a bit. I actually love how over the top their design is, I just wish they stuck to flirting instead of, as you said, pretty much assaulting Link in the later upgrades.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,559
I actually can't even think of an example of this, only of species where the males are brightly coloured and the females duller, or where the two are essentially indistinguishable. Do you have an example?

Here's an article about it.

In an interesting twist, a handful of species are known to have reversed sex roles in which males incubate the eggs and females defend territories and fight amongst themselves for access to the males. These species provide ¿the exceptions that prove the rule,¿ because they demonstrate that the competitive sex is the one most likely to have bright colors. Phalaropes, sandpipers and button quail are good examples of species in which the females are more colorful.
 

Heartjacker13

Member
Feb 27, 2024
30
As a side topic, I finally got around to playing Tears of the Kingdom (good game, won't continue - Link makes me dysphoric), but the Ritos are like massively gendered and it feels really stupid and funny to have bright colours and the like birds being the girl ones and then you have all the male ones being dark colours or white and it's so silly.
Molli.jpg
320

It feels like I'm doing my thing looking at how kids' toys are gendered in a gender studies 101 course again.
I do like pretty much all of the other character desings though, all the women feel dressed at least believably for the world in which they inhabit and while the great fairy is sexual there's nothing wrong with that, though I do wonder if they're intended to be designed after drag queens or if I'm just reading into their vibes which almost feel like a parody of femininity and if that's intentional or if that's like a misogyny from me
I wish they were treated like most birds where the females have more of a drab look while the males have the elaborate designs.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,270
UK

MoonlitSeer

Fallen Guardian
Member
Jun 9, 2023
894

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abx4_UzW-uc
Hopefully this game won't fly under the radar when it comes out next month.
Really simple character designs with such a cool aesthetic and style, can't wait!

I've been eagerly anticipating it since the announcement. LOVED Sayonara Wild Hearts and the album still sees regular rotation to this day. I came out right when I was pretty down and was exactly the thing I needed.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,426
Here's a more positive write-up for this thread, I'm sure we could all use it... :D

So most of the named characters in Rise of the Ronin refer to historical characters -- obviously not always in the most historically accurate matter for the sake of the game, but there's a surprising amount of attention to their true historical details. The game is obviously very male-dominated due to the historical setting, but it does features a number of great women in it, two of which in particular that I found really damn cool, and I liked them even more upon reading about the real-life counterparts.

Koto Nakazawa is a swordswoman, in the game she joins the Shinsengumi, an elite group of shogunate warriors:
OPisj0.md.png

Her real-life counterpart is even more badass, and she must have inspired the Red Sonja trope hahah:
Koto was proud as a swordswoman and decided she would only marry a man stronger than she. However, apparently no living man was able beat her in a duel, so she remained single all her life.

Another cool lady in Ronin is Sana Chiba:

The way she is introduced is a bit weird at first; she is presented as the fiancée of the protagonist's friend (Ryoma Sakamoto) and seems a bit goofy and lovesick, but eventually you see that she has ambitions and desires of her own outside of "must marry Ryoma". And, well, I can't fault the game because that's also true to history, as she was indeed Ryoma's betrothed and was genuinely in love with him (going further into that story may spoil the game so I'll stop there XD). According to historians, later in life she became a healer and a businesswoman as well:
lightinthecloudsblog.com

Chiba Sana: A Warrior and Healer

*3/15/2019 – A small update on the name of Sana’s youngest sister, as well as on the text for the pic “Chiba Gekikenkai”.*2/8/2021 – A few updates to specific informat…

(Note that as I said, those pages could contain some slight "historical spoilers" for the game, so keep that in mind!)

There's also a side-quest involve both Sana and Koto, along with Princess Atsuko who needs their help, and you end up facing a random boss who is also a woman (called Yoshie Oguri, I couldn't find historical references to her though):

HZ6oSC.md.png


Team Ninja wasn't always great with women, to say the least. Their old games often sexualized them tackily, and though Nioh improved on that there were still a few questionable examples. And while she wasn't sexualized or anything, they did Ginchiyo Tachibana a bit dirty in Nioh, she was actually way more badass in real life than she is presented in the game (the game presented her as a victim, when she in fact repelled and scared off her aggressor). But, it does seem like they're improving a lot on that front, and I hope they continue to get better at handling women in their games.

And hey, I learned a fair bit about that piece of Japanese history and its many colourful characters, so that was cool. Ryoma for example was a really interesting person and it's no wonder he's a Japanese folk hero showing up in a number of Japanese media. (And for those inclined, he's pretty easy on the eyes in the game, and can be romanced too... tee hee)
 

Rae

Member
Mar 7, 2019
1,009
I know RE Code Veronica is a fairly old game and I'm watching the LP of it and it's just so bizarre. Why is there a forced romance between Claire and Steve ...they have zero chemistry and yet I can't escape it. I've chosen to ignore her outfit since the video game but still, I keep cringing each time the game zooms up into their faces with the intropective music and I'm thinking oh no plz.
 

View: https://twitter.com/Grxit/status/1781047872747700710?t=T4AbjY_xpSrpA920UMkHDw&s=19
I've been waiting for them to make this comparison, they really can't grasp the difference between great character design and cheesecake xD

There also the extra layer where one game has message of accepts and complex feelings and relationships. The other is cheesecake, specifically pandering to a audience with troubling ideas and thinking it is being smart.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,433

View: https://twitter.com/Grxit/status/1781047872747700710?t=T4AbjY_xpSrpA920UMkHDw&s=19
I've been waiting for them to make this comparison, they really can't grasp the difference between great character design and cheesecake xD

One is a game similar to BGS3 wherein it is incredibly obvious that it as a piece of media with characters who're traditionally attractive/objectified isn't solely aimed at a male audience. While the other is the most boring end result of coomer brain that came from an incredibly misogynistic studio.

The thing that gets me about coomers is that we have absolutely not entered a time where the majority of game characters AREN'T traditionally attractive. What has happened is that there's been a decline, a slight one at that, of blatant objectification aimed solely at men.
 
Last edited:

Naiad

Member
Aug 27, 2020
978

View: https://twitter.com/Grxit/status/1781047872747700710?t=T4AbjY_xpSrpA920UMkHDw&s=19
I've been waiting for them to make this comparison, they really can't grasp the difference between great character design and cheesecake xD

There's hardly any logic with them, I swear...you seldom approach Aphrodite and you could probably go through the entire playthrough of Hades never meeting her once if you had no interest in her boons. That being said, Aphrodite wasn't designed to be sexualized in such a way that Eve was and yes she's a very voluptuous woman showing nudity on display. But, this is tasteful nudity as we call it in the art world. Aphrodite is a mythological figure in the Greek pantheon and is fully made to embrace her sexuality and feminine wilds. Greek art and sculpture celebrated the male and female forms as much as possible. They saw beauty in all people and no shame in public displays of nudity and affection. She's the Goddess of Love and Fertility and she wasn't designed to appease to men by having something good to look at, she was designed to stay true to how Greeks saw their deity. A bold, empowering woman that was strong in every aspect and had beauty beyond comparison. The addition of her spear and shield in Hades II could easily depict part of her myth where she took part in the Trojan War.

"This story of the Judgment of Paris was considered to be the real reason behind the Trojan War. Once the war was underway, she fought on the side of Paris. Aphrodite rescued Paris from Menelaus by enveloping him in a cloud and taking him back to Troy. She then further played an important role in protecting her son Aeneas, to the point of intervening directly on the battlefield."

In some instances, one could see her spear and shield linking back to her Roman counterpart, Venus, who was also believed to bring victory and prosperity as well. This is actually a really nice small detail they've upgraded Aphrodite with to show her other side to her that she's beyond the "delicate flower" trope.

The person is so ignorant of other cultures, that it's painful to read.
 

klauskpm

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,258
Brazil
Here's a more positive write-up for this thread, I'm sure we could all use it... :D

So most of the named characters in Rise of the Ronin refer to historical characters -- obviously not always in the most historically accurate matter for the sake of the game, but there's a surprising amount of attention to their true historical details. The game is obviously very male-dominated due to the historical setting, but it does features a number of great women in it, two of which in particular that I found really damn cool, and I liked them even more upon reading about the real-life counterparts.

Koto Nakazawa is a swordswoman, in the game she joins the Shinsengumi, an elite group of shogunate warriors:
OPisj0.md.png

Her real-life counterpart is even more badass, and she must have inspired the Red Sonja trope hahah:


Another cool lady in Ronin is Sana Chiba:

The way she is introduced is a bit weird at first; she is presented as the fiancée of the protagonist's friend (Ryoma Sakamoto) and seems a bit goofy and lovesick, but eventually you see that she has ambitions and desires of her own outside of "must marry Ryoma". And, well, I can't fault the game because that's also true to history, as she was indeed Ryoma's betrothed and was genuinely in love with him (going further into that story may spoil the game so I'll stop there XD). According to historians, later in life she became a healer and a businesswoman as well:
lightinthecloudsblog.com

Chiba Sana: A Warrior and Healer

*3/15/2019 – A small update on the name of Sana’s youngest sister, as well as on the text for the pic “Chiba Gekikenkai”.*2/8/2021 – A few updates to specific informat…

(Note that as I said, those pages could contain some slight "historical spoilers" for the game, so keep that in mind!)

There's also a side-quest involve both Sana and Koto, along with Princess Atsuko who needs their help, and you end up facing a random boss who is also a woman (called Yoshie Oguri, I couldn't find historical references to her though):

HZ6oSC.md.png


Team Ninja wasn't always great with women, to say the least. Their old games often sexualized them tackily, and though Nioh improved on that there were still a few questionable examples. And while she wasn't sexualized or anything, they did Ginchiyo Tachibana a bit dirty in Nioh, she was actually way more badass in real life than she is presented in the game (the game presented her as a victim, when she in fact repelled and scared off her aggressor). But, it does seem like they're improving a lot on that front, and I hope they continue to get better at handling women in their games.

And hey, I learned a fair bit about that piece of Japanese history and its many colourful characters, so that was cool. Ryoma for example was a really interesting person and it's no wonder he's a Japanese folk hero showing up in a number of Japanese media. (And for those inclined, he's pretty easy on the eyes in the game, and can be romanced too... tee hee)
Oh. Those are great. Whenever I see games going for "historical accuracy" I normally roll my eyes and prepare for the worse. It is heart warming. Thanks for sharing.
 

Naiad

Member
Aug 27, 2020
978
If the chuds knew that part of becoming an artist is going through several life drawing classes with nude models (both male and female) and learning to draw the anatomy of people that way, they'd be all over it until they get to the nude guys (young and old).
 

Vonocourt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,637
If the chuds knew that part of becoming an artist is going through several life drawing classes with nude models (both male and female) and learning to draw the anatomy of people that way, they'd be all over it until they get to the nude guys (young and old).
Signing up for drawing classes means you'd have to do something constructive though.

I don't think it's just happenstance a lot of these folks welcome AI generation:
 
Feb 24, 2018
5,275
I have nothing much to add but Hera gets unfairly vilified, Hephaestus gets treated with too much sympathy (like the Odyssey makes it kind of clear Aphrodite got forced into that marriage because he paid Zeus a ton via a dowery and he's honestly the God of Incels) and I would love to see the original Spartan version of Aphrodite,
Aphrodite Areia (aka the original War goddess version) to appear in more media.
latest

Plus Demeter is the best Greek Goddess along with Eris and party girl Rhea.
 

Naiad

Member
Aug 27, 2020
978
Signing up for drawing classes means you'd have to do something constructive though.

I don't think it's just happenstance a lot of these folks welcome AI generation:

Oh absolutely, and I've got a 50/50 perspective on AI generation. I don't openly support it being used incorrectly to spite freelancers and trying to put them out of a job, but I also can't lie and say that my workplace isn't using it for other avenues either. That, and the Adobe Creative Suites are rolling out more and more implications for their own generative content. But, that's definitely not a topic to go into here.

I will add that the moment AI image stuff became a thing, I saw a sudden spike in how much smutty content there was on DeviantART and other corners and I just rolled my damn eyes.
 

Leeness

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,900
Here's a more positive write-up for this thread, I'm sure we could all use it... :D

So most of the named characters in Rise of the Ronin refer to historical characters -- obviously not always in the most historically accurate matter for the sake of the game, but there's a surprising amount of attention to their true historical details. The game is obviously very male-dominated due to the historical setting, but it does features a number of great women in it, two of which in particular that I found really damn cool, and I liked them even more upon reading about the real-life counterparts.

Koto Nakazawa is a swordswoman, in the game she joins the Shinsengumi, an elite group of shogunate warriors:
OPisj0.md.png

Her real-life counterpart is even more badass, and she must have inspired the Red Sonja trope hahah:


Another cool lady in Ronin is Sana Chiba:

The way she is introduced is a bit weird at first; she is presented as the fiancée of the protagonist's friend (Ryoma Sakamoto) and seems a bit goofy and lovesick, but eventually you see that she has ambitions and desires of her own outside of "must marry Ryoma". And, well, I can't fault the game because that's also true to history, as she was indeed Ryoma's betrothed and was genuinely in love with him (going further into that story may spoil the game so I'll stop there XD). According to historians, later in life she became a healer and a businesswoman as well:
lightinthecloudsblog.com

Chiba Sana: A Warrior and Healer

*3/15/2019 – A small update on the name of Sana’s youngest sister, as well as on the text for the pic “Chiba Gekikenkai”.*2/8/2021 – A few updates to specific informat…

(Note that as I said, those pages could contain some slight "historical spoilers" for the game, so keep that in mind!)

There's also a side-quest involve both Sana and Koto, along with Princess Atsuko who needs their help, and you end up facing a random boss who is also a woman (called Yoshie Oguri, I couldn't find historical references to her though):

HZ6oSC.md.png


Team Ninja wasn't always great with women, to say the least. Their old games often sexualized them tackily, and though Nioh improved on that there were still a few questionable examples. And while she wasn't sexualized or anything, they did Ginchiyo Tachibana a bit dirty in Nioh, she was actually way more badass in real life than she is presented in the game (the game presented her as a victim, when she in fact repelled and scared off her aggressor). But, it does seem like they're improving a lot on that front, and I hope they continue to get better at handling women in their games.

And hey, I learned a fair bit about that piece of Japanese history and its many colourful characters, so that was cool. Ryoma for example was a really interesting person and it's no wonder he's a Japanese folk hero showing up in a number of Japanese media. (And for those inclined, he's pretty easy on the eyes in the game, and can be romanced too... tee hee)

These are awesome! It's great that Team Ninja is improving with their women characters.


View: https://twitter.com/Grxit/status/1781047872747700710?t=T4AbjY_xpSrpA920UMkHDw&s=19
I've been waiting for them to make this comparison, they really can't grasp the difference between great character design and cheesecake xD


Hahahahaha. But what could the difference be?????

If the chuds knew that part of becoming an artist is going through several life drawing classes with nude models (both male and female) and learning to draw the anatomy of people that way, they'd be all over it until they get to the nude guys (young and old).

As mentioned, that would involve doing art that doesn't involve AI lol.

I have seen so many naked people throughout my life at this point with absolutely no sexual context to them, I'm completely "desensitized" to general nudity haha.
 

Cenauru

Dragon Girl Supremacy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,016

View: https://twitter.com/Grxit/status/1781047872747700710?t=T4AbjY_xpSrpA920UMkHDw&s=19
I've been waiting for them to make this comparison, they really can't grasp the difference between great character design and cheesecake xD

I was thinking earlier of how you'd even educate someone like that (not like I'd ever bother to try) and...it's probably not worth it at all. It's impossible to get to people who view everything through a lens of "does it make my dick hard", and ignore every other complexity and layer that sexuality and art is comprised of.

It's why they think we all hate women showing their sexuality at all despite lots of women and queer people being horny too and wanting media that represents and/or understands us. They don't actually know anything about sexuality.
 

Twohearts

Member
Feb 8, 2024
443
Straya

View: https://twitter.com/Grxit/status/1781047872747700710?t=T4AbjY_xpSrpA920UMkHDw&s=19
I've been waiting for them to make this comparison, they really can't grasp the difference between great character design and cheesecake xD

For me I'd say the difference is that Aphrodite is in control of her sexuality while as mentioned above Miss Stella Blade is basically just used for voyeurism which is uncomfortable to watch. It's like say in Sakura Wars with the scenes where you go to the people in the bathtubs, it's just there for fanservice, but the entire concept of Stella Blade is fan service.
Not that they ever would, but I kind of wish they used Aphroditus, Aphrodite's male aspect, and the god of eunuchs, intersex people and trans women as their version of Aphrodite in this game. She's just a really cool figure and I will always share teh fun fact that the Ancient Greek's believed it was good luck to see a lady's penis
 

Princess Bubblegum

I'll be the one who puts you in the ground.
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
10,321
A Cavern Shaped Like Home
I'm not a big fan of that design for Aphrodite but she's still better than Eve by quite a lot.

Since Hades II is being discussed, I really hope that don't downplay Zeus being a rapist bastard. (He better be the big bad.)
 

Rae

Member
Mar 7, 2019
1,009
I feel like a lot of current bad posters are probably going to post badly in twitter so reminding us yet again is not really great 🤔
 

crienne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,198
I'm not a big fan of that design for Aphrodite but she's still better than Eve by quite a lot.

Since Hades II is being discussed, I really hope that don't downplay Zeus being a rapist bastard. (He better be the big bad.)

Spoilers, maybe? The big bad seems to be Chronos, at least from what's been revealed so far.

Also I got into the technical test and oh my god the women are lovely in this game.

Spoilers for in-game character art, if you want it to remain a surprise.
image.png

Hestia is also one of the goddesses, but she seems to have placeholder art for now.
 

Rhaknar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
42,693
banishers-ghosts-of-new-eden_screenshots_logo-1920x1080_02_jpg_800x0_crop_upscale_q85.jpg


She's cool (Antea in Banisher's Ghosts of Eden)

unfortunately while googling a picture of her, I saw a giant spoiler that explains why the dude is in the main menu and not her even tho you play her for the first couple of hours at least LOL oh well thankfully I don't care about spoilers
 

MoonlitSeer

Fallen Guardian
Member
Jun 9, 2023
894
banishers-ghosts-of-new-eden_screenshots_logo-1920x1080_02_jpg_800x0_crop_upscale_q85.jpg


She's cool (Antea in Banisher's Ghosts of Eden)

unfortunately while googling a picture of her, I saw a giant spoiler that explains why the dude is in the main menu and not her even tho you play her for the first couple of hours at least LOL oh well thankfully I don't care about spoilers
If you mean the fact that she's dead, that's not a spoiler. It was made clear from the moment the game was revealed and is one of the driving forces of the plot.
 

Rhaknar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
42,693
If you mean the fact that she's dead, that's not a spoiler. It was made clear from the moment the game was revealed and is one of the driving forces of the plot.

I knew nothing about the game, if it was in trailers and whatnot, fair enough. Like I said, I don't care either way, I just thought it was funny how I found out.
 

MoonlitSeer

Fallen Guardian
Member
Jun 9, 2023
894
I knew nothing about the game, if it was in trailers and whatnot, fair enough. Like I said, I don't care either way, I just thought it was funny how I found out.
Yea, no shame there. It's just something that's literally back of the box material. Like the Steam page makes reference to it in the first little blurb, and then it's elaborated on in the proper description.
 

Rhaknar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
42,693
Yea, no shame there. It's just something that's literally back of the box material. Like the Steam page makes reference to it in the first little blurb, and then it's elaborated on in the proper description.

Gotcha. That makes the fact that
she is very emphatic in telling her ghost friend to fuck off to the afterlife because he's dead so he's not the same dude anymore pretty interesting :D

I only played like 1 hour or so as you can see.

yeah youre right its all over the launch trailer, its basically the premise


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaB0MyubRg0
 

MoonlitSeer

Fallen Guardian
Member
Jun 9, 2023
894
Gotcha. That makes the fact that
she is very emphatic in telling her ghost friend to fuck off to the afterlife because he's dead so he's not the same dude anymore pretty interesting :D

I only played like 1 hour or so as you can see.

yeah youre right its all over the launch trailer, its basically the premise


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaB0MyubRg0

Got caught with food delivery as I was making my edit so I'll just make a new post for it lol

I should add that from what I understand, you still play her throughout the game? I think it works like you control both as one character, and she's still a large factor in the plot of the game. I haven't played it yet, but the footage I saw a while back looked pretty similar to the Shadow of Mordor games in terms of setup and how thw two characters work.
 

Rhaknar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
42,693
Got caught with food delivery as I was making my edit so I'll just make a new post for it lol

I should add that from what I understand, you still play her throughout the game? I think it works like you control both as one character, and she's still a large factor in the plot of the game. I haven't played it yet, but the footage I saw a while back looked pretty similar to the Shadow of Mordor games in terms of setup and how thw two characters work.

yeah just looking at the launch trailer that does seem to be how it works. Like I said, I had seen nothing of the game, a friend of mine said he was liking it and I saw it cheap in a store today and was like "why not", I actually rarely go in blind to games, because like I said, I don't give a fuck about spoilers.