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Hrist

Member
Jun 30, 2023
241
I feel like a lot of outlets are too afraid of the backlash if they even slightly hinted at addressing it as part of their reviews which is....tiring. It's very tiring to hear the same outlets preach "We need to make gaming more inclusive towards women", but by all means is the very reason why developers don't learn to do so because journalism tends to ignore it in favor of avoiding bad PR for even a nanosecond.

I genuinely don't think the outlets are afraid of the backlash. Many probably just don't care very much - acknowledging sexism has always been nothing but a token effort, immediately tossed aside at the next shiny game. FF16 could droop with misogyny, and one heard nary a peep.

It's easy to be for inclusivity in the abstract, but the moment it actually affects the hype thing, it's not a factor. That's why the gnashing of teeth by the chuds over DEI etc was always so laughable. The idea that gaming as a whole cares all that much is mostly marketing, not much more. And that really sucks.

Don't take this as a defense but as a condemnation.

Dmax' review is a breath of fresh air in comparison, honestly.
 

Saito Hikari

Member
Jul 3, 2021
2,810
"Chudborne" was and still is the most appropriate title. Imagine the new generation of chuds that this game will spawn over the years.
It really won't. It's a PS5 exclusive, it's not going to be breaking any records. People didn't run out to buy PS5s for Rebirth, DD2, and Ronin, they won't do it for a new IP either. There has been zero word on a possible PC release ever since it shifted from a PS4/PC/Xbox title to PS5 exclusive, which is when things would start getting really nuts.
 
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Naiad

Member
Aug 27, 2020
1,001
I genuinely don't think the outlets are afraid of the backlash. Many probably just don't care very much - acknowledging sexism has always been nothing but a token effort, immediately tossed aside at the next shiny game. FF16 could droop with misogyny, and one heard nary a peep.

Unfortunately yeah, that's the other side to this as well that I always want to say isn't true, but in some likelihood, it probably is. In an industry that hasn't had the need to earnestly care about sexism towards women for the longest of times, I shouldn't forget that aspect either. It's easy for many to say "I get you" as a token effort without really "getting you". Most won't care until it hurts their bottom line and that's never going to be a thing while I'm still alive probably, lol.

Don't take this as a defense but as a condemnation.

No, you're fine. No worries. 😌

Dmax' review is a breath of fresh air in comparison, honestly.

The RollingStone one is pretty good too.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,984
I'm more curious about it's sales, if it'll be brought often as being a well recieved PS5 exclusive, how people will bring it up for the game(play) itself and if it keeps getting brought up as ammo for having attractive women in games as we all know about the whole "various women not being attractive enough in games" and such(usually started by chuds).

Theyre going to need more examples lol.

Stellar Blade will sell well but its not going to do gangbusters like the titles they love to hate like TLOU2, Horizon.etc. Its also not reviewing as strongly. AAA companies are not going to look at SB, suddenly pivot and put more fanservice in their games.
 

Timu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,651
Stellar Blade will sell well but its not going to do gangbusters like the titles they love to hate like TLOU2, Horizon.etc. Its also not reviewing as strongly. AAA companies are not going to look at SB, suddenly pivot and put more fanservice in their games.
Now that is definitely true!

But yeah this game is going to be very interesting between now and the end of the year for what people say about it.
 

Cenauru

Dragon Girl Supremacy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,038
lmao at gamers getting mad at IGN giving it a 7 and calling them woke puritans. Meanwhile it just says the story and characters are dogshit with no personality but the combat is good, and has some really cool costumes.

These people can't be real.
 

NekoCat

Member
May 6, 2022
1,200
New York
I'm just putting SB threads on ignore at this point. Gonna suck seeing it pop up in the GOTY thread later this year with people using it as a vehicle to post thinly-veiled misogyny.
 
Feb 23, 2024
35
Oh for sure, I totally understand where you're coming from, especially with the mods that are typically popular for games often being made for purely horny reasons. That is kind of why I prefaced by saying if the mod is well done. I've only ever really used one for Skyrim (don't remember if it was Vilja or another one like it) but it mostly felt like a somewhat more personal companion than the base game really offered, which was interesting.

I'd actually say for immersion breaking I think ones that change a character's sexual preferences are much more along those lines. Obviously I understand why they exist, but I actually think probably the most interesting romance thing I've seen in a game in a long time was in Cyberpunk with Panam, where as a female V the game will still allow you to make advances with her, and she'll deflect or turn you down. Like she has a clear preference and the game allows you to actually explore that, which is interesting, substantially more than games like Baldur's Gate 3 where it seems every character is constantly coming onto you and/or you have no option to even attempt a romantic discussion if the character's preference doesn't align.
I've seen the term "playersexual" used to describe the latter situation. Where it doesn't feel like the characters are actually written as bisexual or pansexual, but more like they are just directly horny for the player without any sense of what sexual preferences they have in general (or they will go for the player even in contradiction to their previously-expressed preferences without any reflection).
 

ConVito

Member
Oct 16, 2018
3,100
What do you guys think of certain companion mods for Fallout and TES games like Willow and Vilja?

I can appreciate they put a ton of effort into them but there are elements of being like a girlfriend simulator that kind of weird me out about them. Like, not that they're characters first that also have romance options but it very much feels like they're trying too hard sometimes to appeal if that makes any sense.

I don't know, maybe I'm the weird one but I just can't shake the feeling that they feel less genuine than they are a vehicle for a fantasy compared to some other mods I've seen or played.

I specifically look for ones that just have default assets and DON'T use those hair/skin/body mods inspired by something out of a Fabio romance novel. Pretty good track record for decent ones if you go by that.
 

plufim

Member
Sep 29, 2018
1,130
The gamergate grifters must be annoyed. They were banking on low reviews for their next round of awful videos.
 

Twohearts

Member
Feb 8, 2024
452
Straya
EVE has very little character development. She's a hero and wants to help people, but that's about it. Other women are 'treated' OK, in that there's no overt sexualisation or harassment aimed at them from other characters. They all have outfits/bodies like EVE though, complete with jiggle. Or they are super cutesy and childlike.

As is often the case with these games, outside of their appearance and outfits, the games are almost entirely devoid of sex as a concept. Nothing in the story or dialogue deals with sex or attraction.


A lot of death is offscreen, but a lot of quests have you coming across dead bodies. I'd say the majority of big dramatic death scenes are women, however.

It's kind of a roll of the dice when you'll get good vs bad outfits as it depends on what quests you do and where you explore etc. It took a few hours for me to get out of the default one though.

I would say by and large EVE has no agency, she does what other people tell her although it's not always men.

Yeah this has sold me on not buying the game. Jesus fuck the two kinds of women are sex dolls and children
 

Naiad

Member
Aug 27, 2020
1,001
IGN must be cleaning up the comment section because that looks pretty tame for a video on a console exclusive. Though the fact that the video also only has 3.2k views is making me think that the fervor over this game might be more limited than certain people think.

Fair point. Maybe because it's their own Podcast the vitriol hasn't hit the fan quite yet. I'm not sure how many people know about their Beyond! podcast.
 

Dmax3901

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,919
Dmax clearly put up all the review about the gameplay, the voice acting, the writing, the world design, etc. to the front so that people can read it first before they decide to whether or not reading the sexualization part, but somehow those sexist gamer gate still complained that there is no actual review.
Lmao I'm waking up to find one of my reviews actually has comments.
 

doops.

Member
Jun 3, 2020
2,513
Yeah nah fuck this clownshoes shit. It's Mass Effect 2 all over again.

spi2j01iihwc1.png
 
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Isilia

Member
Mar 11, 2019
5,832
US: PA
Just goes to show these guys would be around now matter how it scored. Sadly, it would have been even worse if the game was lower.

Snowflakes
 

y2kyle89

Member
Mar 16, 2018
9,537
Mass
I remember when Stellar Blade was first announced it was announced alongside another game about an anime girl fighting robot monster things but this one the girl was wearing a cool tabard and was doing IP Man punches. Whatever happened to that game?
 

Leeness

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,904
Yeah nah fuck this clownshoes shit. It's Mass Effect 2 all over again.

spi2j01iihwc1.png

lol, what a beautiful outfit.

Also, I know I invite it by being on Twitter still, but I have muted "Stellar Blade", "#StellarBlade", every variation, and marked the topic as "uninteresting for me", "harmful and spammy" like 40 times, and it's still the top result on my trending feed lol. I JUST WANT TO MUTE IT, TWITTER.
 
Oct 26, 2017
948
lmao at gamers getting mad at IGN giving it a 7 and calling them woke puritans. Meanwhile it just says the story and characters are dogshit with no personality but the combat is good, and has some really cool costumes.

These people can't be real.
Well of course, they dared to say the characters are bad, when all the character you'll ever need is her ass. That's all women are to these people, tits and ass.
 

SofNascimento

cursed
Member
Oct 28, 2017
21,439
São Paulo - Brazil
I mean more the juxtaposition of titillating shots and serious, somber story beats.

I wouldn't say Mass Effect 2 has that. I might have played that game... a few times. And I can tell Miranda's ass shots are concentrated in her loyalty misison and in a key conversaion you have with her (the one to get her loyalty mission). So there is no "your sister is dead Miranda!" followed by a questionable camera. ME2 might have some moments that make you question the choices involved in them, but no moments that will make you question your sanity.
 

doops.

Member
Jun 3, 2020
2,513
I wouldn't say Mass Effect 2 has that. I might have played that game... a few times. And I can tell Miranda's ass shots are concentrated in her loyalty misison and in a key conversaion you have with her (the one to get her loyalty mission). So there is no "your sister is dead Miranda!" followed by a questionable camera. ME2 might have some moments that make you question the choices involved in them, but no moments that will make you question your sanity.

I may have to disagree with you on that:


View: https://youtube.com/watch?v=RS4GtlQMuXA

As you can see, the scene in question is still very much about Miranda opening up to you on a touchy subject in her personal life, with the camera pressed against her butt for more than a few seconds of it.
 

Raftina

Member
Jun 27, 2020
3,667
I remember when Stellar Blade was first announced it was announced alongside another game about an anime girl fighting robot monster things but this one the girl was wearing a cool tabard and was doing IP Man punches. Whatever happened to that game?
Are you talking about AI-Limit? If yes, it is still supposed to have a 2024 release. However, the game had undergone some design changes in terms of the protagonist's design.

Announcement in 2019

View: https://youtu.be/9x3Sbp455ms

Current design

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfGJuuetU18

The game looks like a single player version of Punishing Gray Raven. Comparison reference.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQJBSQk-crg
 
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SofNascimento

cursed
Member
Oct 28, 2017
21,439
São Paulo - Brazil
I may have to disagree with you on that:


View: https://youtube.com/watch?v=RS4GtlQMuXA

As you can see, the scene in question is still very much about Miranda opening up to you on a touchy subject in her personal life, with the camera pressed against her butt for more than a few seconds of it.


This is the dialogue I mentioned where you get her recruitment mission. I don't think it's particularly sentimental moment but I see your point about being a touchy subject, which Miranda certainly think it is. But for example, if you check the moment when she actually meet her sister, which is the emotinal climax of her loyalty mission, the camera won't randomly change to show her butt.
 

y2kyle89

Member
Mar 16, 2018
9,537
Mass
Are you talking about AI-Limit? If yes, it is still supposed to have a 2024 release. However, the game had undergone some design changes in terms of the protagonist's design.
No, it was not that. I thought it was part of the China Hero Project too but I'm not seeing it in Gematsu...

Edit: I just brought it up as a "why are we in the timeline where Stellar Blade gets all this and this game doesn't" but... yeah...
 

ventuno

Member
Nov 11, 2019
2,034
I agree that there is no reasoning with the chuds. They've selected Stellar Bade as their war horse no matter the metacritic average, since the real objective is to be able to make another tweet or video about how people are offended about pixels or whatever to attack criticisms aimed at sexism and misogyny... and they hope people engage. Reviewers don't need to give the game a good grade or highlight its positives in the hopes of proving they're reviewing the game in good fath, bad faith actors who want to have a culture war will jump at anything that helps them start it.

For how Chinese women (the ones who play Star Rail anyway) react to various characters, I tend to look at Douban: https://www.douban.com/group/735784/ Douban is an entertainment media site whose userbase is primarily (but not exclusively) women, and the discussion groups mainly consists of fans discussing the title, so I think it is more reliable than looking at Weibo (Chinese equivalent to Twitter) or NGA (dominated by men).

This is the topic on Jade's reveal: https://www.douban.com/group/topic/304984208
And this is the topic on Ruan Mei's reveal: https://www.douban.com/group/topic/297065761

The reactions are... quite different. Almost all the posts about Ruan Mei criticize her costume for being disgusting sexy underwear. Particular attention is paid to the sheer black silk on her belly. By contrast, most of the posts about Jade praise her for being a beautiful older sister in a pretty dress. Some of the posts criticize the black lace bra, but they are usually embedded in in a post that overall likes the dress despite the flaws. It is not because they are different sets of users either. The top voted post said "翡翠姐好看捏,mhy明明能正常做衣服" ("Jade is so nice looking. Mihoyo can design normal looking dress after all")

There are multiple reasons for these sentiments. One is that most of the Chinese fanbase is looking at the artwork on phones, so some details are harder to notice. For example, one user confessed to not realizing Fischl had a line of sheer black silk running down her belly several years into playing Genshin.

But one big reason (and not a great one) is that Ruan Mei is wearing a Xianzhou dress, while Jade is not. The Xianzhou dresses--as well as the characters who wear them--have various details taken from traditional Chinese culture that makes them quite obvious to Chinese users. The most commonly shared element seems to be the button connecting two sides of the torso. In Ruan Mei's artwork, it is that horizontal gold colored thing above her belly. But there are various other elements, mostly in the details and patterns on their dresses, like the spirals that represent clouds and waves on a lot of sleeves and trims. There are a lot of supporting elements that signal "this is a Xianzhou character". In Ruan Mei's case, there are the bamboo curtails, the cups, and (of course) the ruan. Jade does not have any of those elements. Jade is being judged as a confident exotic foreign beauty, while Ruan Mei is being judged as a woman wearing a traditional dress that has been sexualized for NEET incels.

It is certainly a double standard, and one that ought not be applied. But I wish people would stop referring to the clothes on Black Swan, Jade, etc as Xianzhou dresses just because they are all highly sexualized.

Thank you for taking the time to post this! I've seen the criticism towards how sexualized the Xianzhou Luofu characters' dresses are, but I didn't notice it had gone so far that people linked sexualization to the Luofu.

One of the worst offenders in terms of silly, embarrassing designs in the game for me is Topaz, a character not affiliated with the Xianzhou Fleet or present on the Luofu in any way. Silly cut-outs, deliberately ill-fitting shirt, string on the side that is meant to remind people of panties... sexualization isn't a Xianzhou Luofu thing and it's extremely unfortunate to narrow it down to that. As much as I like Jade's design and this isn't the first instance of a blazer dress in fashion designs, it's plenty sexualized too.

Our first proper interaction with Jade remains to be seen, but IMO it also doesn't help that the audience's first big interaction with Ruan Mei outside of SU moments skew more towards pandering compared to other female characters despite her character's importance. The trailblazer's interactions with Ruan Mei aren't positive, but her manipulation is intended to be titillating... so aspects like her design will come off even more negatively than say, Bronya or Pela running around in stockings and heels in eternal winter.
 

Raftina

Member
Jun 27, 2020
3,667
No, it was not that. I thought it was part of the China Hero Project too but I'm not seeing it in Gematsu...
Maybe Project DT? Development is ongoing. The team posted an update on Weibo in October 2023, containing a video segment the developers have with CCTV9 (that is a channel of CCTV, the main news channel for the central Chinese government), and the CCTV Weibo account has the same video. So the company is still alive. How well development is going is another question, though Black Myth Wukong was pretty quiet as well, until suddenly it was a year from release.

Project DT also has undergone some revisions. It seems that the team is going to incorporate various ethnic costumes in what previously looked like an entirely scifi setting, and you can see some of the designs in the Weibo post.
 

Naiad

Member
Aug 27, 2020
1,001
Not HSR related, but Mihoyo related in general, I still remember how many people lost their god damn minds with Rosaria. I'm not even the super religious type and her initial design was a huge turn-off to me.
 

y2kyle89

Member
Mar 16, 2018
9,537
Mass
Maybe Project DT? Development is ongoing. The team posted an update on Weibo in October 2023, containing a video segment the developers have with CCTV9 (that is a channel of CCTV, the main news channel for the central Chinese government), and the CCTV Weibo account has the same video. So the company is still alive. How well development is going is another question, though Black Myth Wukong was pretty quiet as well, until suddenly it was a year from release.

Project DT also has undergone some revisions. It seems that the team is going to incorporate various ethnic costumes in what previously looked like an entirely scifi setting, and you can see some of the designs in the Weibo post.
That's it!
A: Man, I kind of feel like an asshole calling her an anime girl. I could have sworn it was more stylized than that.
B: She got the stupid high heel hooves thing too...
 

MoonlitSeer

Fallen Guardian
Member
Jun 9, 2023
895
I'll wait until the game is fully out to talk about it, but youtube recommended me a video showing all of the outfits in the game and that is going to provide a lot to discuss. Wow. At least now I have confirmation that my prediction that she would always be in heels was correct (including fake heels), at least.
 

Rae

Member
Mar 7, 2019
1,009
I'll wait until the game is fully out to talk about it, but youtube recommended me a video showing all of the outfits in the game and that is going to provide a lot to discuss. Wow. At least now I have confirmation that my prediction that she would always be in heels was correct (including fake heels), at least.

It's not 100% related but I installed an extension that blocked YT recc'd videos next and my life is much happier and I stopped accidentally looking at game spoilers too.
 

Dmax3901

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,919
Learning my review was posted on the old forum AND on r/KotakuinAction so that explains the comments I'm getting.
 

SchrodingerC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,871
Yeah nah fuck this clownshoes shit. It's Mass Effect 2 all over again.

spi2j01iihwc1.png

what in the fuck is that outfit.
This is a fashion crime.

Funnily enough the scene description reminds me of the Emil and Kainé moment from Nier replicant. Similarly bad outfit and dubious camera placements, but Kainé as a character was compelling.